4 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

Sorry but everyone here would have been sharing the same optimism about those pickups at this stage of there careers.

Oliver is his standout, the jury is either out on the rest or I could have picked them from my couch. I don't know why you have included Viney considering he was drafted with Toumpas by his old man.

We are a mid range team and he has had some major assets to work with. Taylor has done some nice things but I don't share the over the top optimism on the back of beating two of the worst football teams to ever take the field.

Classic OTT negative react, which says that drafting is lose/lose - either the pick is "obvious", or its a fail.

FWIW, I agree with you that there's too much knee-jerk over-reacting to beating two appallingly bad sides, but this is too far the other way.

27 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Could put @olisik in the same bracket. Will only ever come out after any loss. Goes MIA when there's a win...

I do love the old "where's @olisik gone" question after a win.

Hasn't posted since prior to the Adelaide game (which feels like an eternity ago but was just 5 days back).

His second-most recent post was in another Elegt/olisik circle-jerk thread, having a crack at Langdon. Lol.

On 7/31/2020 at 9:35 PM, olisik said:

100% agree, he has failed to draft any decent non first rounders since he came to the dees

 

Mitch King

Liam Hulett

Dion Johnston

Oscar Baker

Jayden Hunt

JKH

Mitch Clisby

 

List goes on, draft pick after draft pick wasted.

Plus Max Gawn , both McDonalds, Harmes ( a rookie who has played 100games, pretty rare) Fritsch, Hannan . This year Jackson Kosi and Rivers ( at 42) Taylor obviously a dud. What nonsense!

It’s been our non first round drafting which has been a great success. None of  the above  were first first round picks I believe 

 

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Classic OTT negative react, which says that drafting is lose/lose - either the pick is "obvious", or its a fail.

FWIW, I agree with you that there's too much knee-jerk over-reacting to beating two appallingly bad sides, but this is too far the other way.

I do love the old "where's @olisik gone" question after a win.

Hasn't posted since prior to the Adelaide game (which feels like an eternity ago but was just 5 days back).

His second-most recent post was in another Elegt/olisik circle-jerk thread, having a crack at Langdon. Lol.

I consider myself pretty down on our team, but Errors and Omissions take it to another level.

On 8/1/2020 at 1:50 PM, WERRIDEE said:

I think we should have picked up Georgiadies with Jackson's pick the only reason why he wasn't taken early was because he was injured. He's exactly what we need we don't need a ruckman but now we are stuck with him praying that he can become a forward.

Still think it was a mistake to get Jackson? If u do then every Demon supporter  would  disagree with you. I reckon he may we’ll win a Brownlow . And I reckon he, Kosi, and Rivers  will play 200 games. Anyone disagree?

2 hours ago, A F said:

Agreed, although it might also say that we're at that list cycle stage of going after players that can contribute immediately from day dot, rather than look to build a core over a number of years.

Jackson in particular is super impressive for his ability to stay in contests and run out games given he's playing in far more contested positions than Rivers or Kozzie are. 

That said, all three look exciting prospects.

Have you had your internet cut off, @Elegt? I haven't seen much from you since prior to the Adelaide match.

hye mate

9 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Old mate @Elegt has started drop Oliver and sack Taylor threads in consecutive weeks - he's having a worse trot than Adelaide.

Just need him to start a ‘dees no chance for flag’ thread and we’re a shoe in ?

On 8/1/2020 at 12:45 PM, Elegt said:

Because this crap has been going on for years. Lets run through his entire drafting/trading history

2013

Trades:

Viv Michie for 54-error

Tyson 9 + 53 for 2 + 20 + 72 -error

Vince for 23-success

Draft

Salem 9- success

Kennedy Harris 40-error

Jayden Hunt 57-success

Harmes 2-success

Rookie 

King 19-error

Georgieou 35-error

2014

Trades

Garlett + 83  for 61 + 79- success

Lumumba for Mitch Clark-error

Frost + 40 + 53 for 23 - error

Draft

Petracca 2 - success

Brayshaw 3- success

Neal Bullen 40- error

Mcdonald 53-error

Rookie

Vandenburg 2-success

White 20-error

2015

Trades

Melksham for 25-success

Howe and Toumpas for Kennedy 29 + 50-error

Fitzpatrick for 94-success

Bugg and 7 for 10 + 43 +64- success

Draft

Oliver 4-success

Weideman 9- error

King 42-error

Hulett 46-error

Rookie

Wagner 6-error

Smith 41- neutral

2016 

Trades

 29 + 68 for Hibberd and 59 -success

Dunn and 51 for 47-error

Draft

Hannan 46-neutral

Johnstone 64-error

Rookie

Filipovic 8-error

Smith 25-error

Kielty 41-error

2017

Trades

10 + 2018 (1rd) + 2018 (4rd) for Lever + 35 + 2018 (3rd rd)- error

Watts for 31 -success

66 for Balic-error

Draft

Spargo 29- error

Fritsch 31-success

Petty 37-error

Baker 48-error

2018

Trades

Kent for 65-error

Tyson for Preuss + 62-neutral

Hogan + 65 for 6 + 23-success

May + Kolodjasnij for 6 -neutral however Ben King looks to be a star and Kolodjasnij will be delisted

Draft

Sparrow 27-neutral but did we really need another inside mid

Jordon 33-neutral but this kid should be pushing for games by now

Nietschke 53-error

Hore 56-success

Bedford 75-neutral

Rookie

Chandler 15-error

Mid-Season

Dunkley 3-error

2019

Frost + 42 + 61 + 2020 4th rnd for 50 + 2020 2nd rd-neutral

22 + 79 + 2020 2nd rd for Langdon 26 + 2020 4th rd-neutral

26 + 50 2020 1st rnd for 8 [pickett]-neutral but looks like error at this stage

Draft

Jackson 3-neutral but Hayden Young is what we needed

Pickett 12- neutral but kid has a long way to go

Rivers 32-neutral but the kid looks to have the goods

Overall more misses than hits

Young/ Jackson. You say we needed a HBF?Really? Still not sold on Pickett? Listen to  Healy  and del Santo  But my principal beef is your judging our recruiting by reference, often to rookie picks or v low draft picks . I’d like to know what is the average number of games played by rookies— at any club. Buggerall I should think . If any AFL player plays more than 50 games it is a recruiting success, unless he’s a first rounder . How can the recruiting of McDonald at 53   be regarded as a failure? Kent wanted to go to St K. He had been often injured ( and still is) . I liked him but what was his trade value?  When Tyson was recruited we needed him badly. We were at rock bottom, he gave us a number of v good seasons  and anyway, wasn’t he a package with  Salem? Can Taylor be blamed for Koladjasnij’s concussion. .?He was a v good player at GC . Petty an error? How on earth can u say that after his games last year? Wagner, a rookie, has played some serviceable games and I bet he plays some this year.  V good rookie pickup in my view . And Weideman  a fail.Really? 

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Could put @olisik in the same bracket. Will only ever come out after any loss. Goes MIA when there's a win...

That’s because I got more to say after a loss. What’s your point?  You watch strangers habits on the internet. Nice.

 @dazzledavey36

Edited August 10, 20204 yr by olisik

On 8/1/2020 at 12:15 PM, Elegt said:

Because this crap has been going on for years. Lets run through his entire drafting/trading history

2013

Trades:

Viv Michie for 54-error

Tyson 9 + 53 for 2 + 20 + 72 -error

Vince for 23-success

Draft

Salem 9- success

Kennedy Harris 40-error

Jayden Hunt 57-success

Harmes 2-success

Rookie 

King 19-error

Georgieou 35-error

2014

Trades

Garlett + 83  for 61 + 79- success

Lumumba for Mitch Clark-error

Frost + 40 + 53 for 23 - error

Draft

Petracca 2 - success

Brayshaw 3- success

Neal Bullen 40- error

Mcdonald 53-error

Rookie

Vandenburg 2-success

White 20-error

2015

Trades

Melksham for 25-success

Howe and Toumpas for Kennedy 29 + 50-error

Fitzpatrick for 94-success

Bugg and 7 for 10 + 43 +64- success

Draft

Oliver 4-success

Weideman 9- error

King 42-error

Hulett 46-error

Rookie

Wagner 6-error

Smith 41- neutral

2016 

Trades

 29 + 68 for Hibberd and 59 -success

Dunn and 51 for 47-error

Draft

Hannan 46-neutral

Johnstone 64-error

Rookie

Filipovic 8-error

Smith 25-error

Kielty 41-error

2017

Trades

10 + 2018 (1rd) + 2018 (4rd) for Lever + 35 + 2018 (3rd rd)- error

Watts for 31 -success

66 for Balic-error

Draft

Spargo 29- error

Fritsch 31-success

Petty 37-error

Baker 48-error

2018

Trades

Kent for 65-error

Tyson for Preuss + 62-neutral

Hogan + 65 for 6 + 23-success

May + Kolodjasnij for 6 -neutral however Ben King looks to be a star and Kolodjasnij will be delisted

Draft

Sparrow 27-neutral but did we really need another inside mid

Jordon 33-neutral but this kid should be pushing for games by now

Nietschke 53-error

Hore 56-success

Bedford 75-neutral

Rookie

Chandler 15-error

Mid-Season

Dunkley 3-error

2019

Frost + 42 + 61 + 2020 4th rnd for 50 + 2020 2nd rd-neutral

22 + 79 + 2020 2nd rd for Langdon 26 + 2020 4th rd-neutral

26 + 50 2020 1st rnd for 8 [pickett]-neutral but looks like error at this stage

Draft

Jackson 3-neutral but Hayden Young is what we needed

Pickett 12- neutral but kid has a long way to go

Rivers 32-neutral but the kid looks to have the goods

Overall more misses than hits

Tmac, Petty, Weed and some of the Neutrals.

NFI elegt.

This is hands down the worst post ever on Demonland.

Edited August 10, 20204 yr by Win4theAges

2 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

Tmac, Petty and some of the Neutrals.

NFI elegt.

what about tmac?

Oliver is the outstanding pick. A chubby kid that didn't play in the National Championships was an inspired pick.

Have a feeling the early investment in Jackson will be another. The signs are good. But plenty of water needs to pass under the bridge yet. All young players eventually sucumb to injury, form, confidence issues. It's a tough game.

Pickett is very raw. In time he'll learn how to stick tackles, get to the right positions and nail set shots...

You mean Omac ok, but you have pour massive amounts of crap on players who are performing for the club at minute.

Petty is going to be a star once he gets over his groin issues.

Edited August 10, 20204 yr by Win4theAges

40 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

You mean Omac ok, but you have pour massive amounts of crap on players who are performing for the club at minute.

Petty is going to be a star once he gets over his groin issues.

star? sure I agree he could be a solid player but I haven't seen him tear a game apart yet to say that he will be a star; from memory Hipwood kicked 5 on him

12 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Just for balance, I've been in the ranty wing of Team Fritta for some time. You'll find far too many posts of me insisting that Fritsch is in the top five of his draft and I stand by that. At the time this thread was started Fritsch was kicking his couple of goals but doing little else and that was definitely below his best, but the flat period for him of course was his inconsistency while neing tossed around the ground last year. 100% Fritsch output is a lock for All Australian.

Anyway, the sack Taylor wailing was, like, three whole weeks ago and since then our season has been turned around largely by the resurgence of players who were 'trade disasters' and 'not up to it' and 'failed experiments' as recently as July.

We do go OTT sometimes and drop bundles very quickly.

Think our list is taking shape nicely and still a work in progress as the recruits and top up goon more confidence as a team.

JT has not been a failure in fact has some very good selections and many in this team from Beating North.

(Look at  their stock and compare) 

Prob a KPF is needed and def another outside runner.

If recruiting ready made was easy I would like Tom Papley or Todd Marshall snd say Dane Rampe yo add fir 2021.

Petty May be our ace if he can regain fitness in 2021 fir forward (or back) key position but a runner (even Zac Jones ok) is still needed I feel.

And an emphasis on kicking and disposal skills is imperative. 

 

8 hours ago, Farmer said:

Still think it was a mistake to get Jackson? If u do then every Demon supporter  would  disagree with you. I reckon he may we’ll win a Brownlow . And I reckon he, Kosi, and Rivers  will play 200 games. Anyone disagree?

I’ve said we nailed the picks. The only worry is how long Jackson will stay a Demon.  The go home factor and the fact that both Freo and Eagles would come with big $$$$ contracts.  Need to get Jacko entrenched in Melbourne life and hopefully he meets a nice Melbourne girl.  

13 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Classic OTT negative react, which says that drafting is lose/lose - either the pick is "obvious", or its a fail.

FWIW, I agree with you that there's too much knee-jerk over-reacting to beating two appallingly bad sides, but this is too far the other way.

I do love the old "where's @olisik gone" question after a win.

Hasn't posted since prior to the Adelaide game (which feels like an eternity ago but was just 5 days back).

His second-most recent post was in another Elegt/olisik circle-jerk thread, having a crack at Langdon. Lol.

Fair enough. I was specifically talking about the players included on the previous list and not all of Taylor's work. For instance, I don't think anyone thinks it was amazing of him to pick up Petracca and then a player like Salem I see as a solid pick up and nothing to be overly enthusiastic about given the trade we made and what was also available. 

I can just remember all the threads talking our dynasty years ago with the players that were mentioned in the previous post and now they are being dismissed as bad picks. 

 

11 hours ago, Elegt said:

star? sure I agree he could be a solid player but I haven't seen him tear a game apart yet to say that he will be a star; from memory Hipwood kicked 5 on him

I think he's a natural forward who can take pack marks, kicks truely, brings others into the game with his footy smarts and feel for the game.

I will be saying hello when it all clicks for him.

Edited August 11, 20204 yr by Win4theAges

On 8/5/2020 at 11:31 PM, Elegt said:

sorry but Spargo is done. bloke is no good

Still think so? Watch his games in the 2018 finals where he had a real influence. I agree, disappointing since but   he was good v North

now what about telling us about Koladjashnij ? Is he at the Club? Training ? Decent player if he can get over the concussion

Lol, noticed the thread name change, @Demonland, @Whispering_Jack, @Grapeviney

On 8/1/2020 at 12:45 PM, Elegt said:

Because this crap has been going on for years. Lets run through his entire drafting/trading history

2013

Trades:

Viv Michie for 54-error

Tyson 9 + 53 for 2 + 20 + 72 -error

Vince for 23-success

Draft

Salem 9- success

Kennedy Harris 40-error

Jayden Hunt 57-success

Harmes 2-success

Rookie 

King 19-error

Georgieou 35-error

Breaking this down year-by-year: 2013

• Pick 2 for Dom Tyson and Christian Salem - probably a break-even as our alternative was Billings (solid player) and we've got Salem now and had 2-3 good years out of Tyson (pick 20 was Jack Leslie, pick 72 - GWS passed)
• Pick 23 for Vince - Gave us great service, added a quality mature player which we really needed at that time.
• Pick 40 for JKH proved to be disappointing.
• Pick 54 for Viv Mitchie didn't work out.
• Pick 57 for Jayden Hunt looked to be an inspired choice when he was playing off HBF. 
• Pick 82 (Rookie elevation) for Mitch Clisby didn't work out.

Rookie Draft

• James Harmes, goes alright albeit currently down on form.
• Max King failed to come on
• Neville Jetta; kept him on the roster - thank goodness we did.

Overall a pretty good effort give our needs at the time. Four of those players are still on our list.

This is just a nonsense.

Firstly, Taylor isn't respoonsible for trades. Secondly, just classifying picks on a "success-neutral-error" basis is totally subjective and far too black and white. As is the assumption that we would have picked the same player another team did with a traded pick. Remember that 19 other recruiters overlooked Fyfe at pick 20, for instance.

The only way to assess Taylor is

1. against his peers (i.e. how other recruiters at other clubs have performed with a similar range of picks) and
2. how his actual picks have gone against the average number of games for picks in the same range. For instance, getting a 90-game player like Salem for pick 9 in 2013 is hardly an individual "error". How many games on average would you expect to get out of a first-, second-, third- or fourth-round recruit?

To reduce the overall score for Taylor by saying:

1. Sparrow and Jordon are "neutral" when they are still second-year developing players taken later than pick 26,  and Nietschke is an "error" when he's out for the season.
2. Jackson, Pickett and Rivers are "neutral" when it's their first season.

is either jumping the gun, or a poor assessment of players who have played a handful of games.

I think they are all showing tremendous promise.

On 8/1/2020 at 12:45 PM, Elegt said:

2014

Trades

Garlett + 83  for 61 + 79- success

Lumumba for Mitch Clark-error

Frost + 40 + 53 for 23 - error

Draft

Petracca 2 - success

Brayshaw 3- success

Neal Bullen 40- error

Mcdonald 53-error

Rookie

Vandenburg 2-success

White 20-error

 

Trades:

• Jeff Garlett was great value for those picks
• The Mitch Clark situation was forced upon us but taking Lumumba was real clanger. Was this Taylor's fault or was it Paul Roos (or more to the point Tammy) being taken in by Lumumba's tales of transcendental hopping?
• Sam Frost, 40 and 53 for pick 23. How can you criticise this when Frosty is STILL doing him damnedest to get us an early 2nd round selection in the next draft? 

Draft:

• Pick 2 Christian Petracca (thank you Sainters)
• Pick 3 Angus Brayshaw
• Pick 40 Alex Neal Bullen 
• Pick 42 Billy Stretch, neat footballer but the footy gods seemed to be against him.
• Pick 63 Oscar MacDonald

Rookie Draft:

• AVB
• Mitch White (played senior football)

Overall 5 players still on our list and 3 who gave us good service (Garlett, Stretch and Frost)

Here's my take:

- Jackson is a great pick. He is going to be our life after Gawn. He is a ruck primarily. Not a forward. So anything we are getting out of him now is a bonus. 

- Kozzy Pickett gives us speed. Yes, he needs to slow down a bit and not fumble marks and stick more tackles etc. but we couldn't afford not to get pickett. Him just being on the field makes us quicker. Do people forget just how slow we were on paper last year?  

- Petty isn't a fail. I hold high hopes for Petty as a key forward. He has shown to be a good mark and a good kick in front of goal. People have short memories. 

- Jason Taylor has a hard edge to him. He never in a 1000 years wouldve recruited the likes of Watts, Strauss, Bleass etc. He goes for competitors. His misses are because the players just don't have the skill but I can live with that compared to our previous recruiters who picked guys that didn't crack in. 

The form of Sparrow and Jackson over the last couple of weeks has changed the out look a bit! If Spargo can find some consistent form as well things will be looking very good. 
 

It’s interesting to review our history and see that we’ve pretty much given Taylor either early and late picks or a bunch of middle picks.

Last year was the first year he got 3 in the top 30 ish and we didn’t give him any later picks to look at.

We’re only a few good flankers away from having a very strong list and that’s without the benefits of multiple father sons, free agency, or priority picks. 

16 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Here's my take:

- Jackson is a great pick. He is going to be our life after Gawn. He is a ruck primarily. Not a forward. So anything we are getting out of him now is a bonus. 

- Kozzy Pickett gives us speed. Yes, he needs to slow down a bit and not fumble marks and stick more tackles etc. but we couldn't afford not to get pickett. Him just being on the field makes us quicker. Do people forget just how slow we were on paper last year?  

- Petty isn't a fail. I hold high hopes for Petty as a key forward. He has shown to be a good mark and a good kick in front of goal. People have short memories. 

- Jason Taylor has a hard edge to him. He never in a 1000 years wouldve recruited the likes of Watts, Strauss, Bleass etc. He goes for competitors. His misses are because the players just don't have the skill but I can live with that compared to our previous recruiters who picked guys that didn't crack in. 

Rivers also will end up a Demon half back in the Don Williams Tony Anderson and Thorogood  mould. Also Brett Lovett. 

( Bigger andbetter than  Frank Davis who really was a back pocket) .

May even end up with midfield minutes through his career  Or like a Don Hunter (WC) and Ken Hunter (Carl) as a good player who I could win a match up forward with skills in a desperate situation.