Racial Vilification of Harley Bennell

[Lucifers Hero 39,371]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

not sure what you are trying to say here, luci?

Not sure if inter racism is a phrase...  I was meaning from one ethnic/cultural group to another.  

Wasn't trying to down play down racism toward indigenous Australians in any way at all.

I feel all forms of racism need to be condemned.

[daisycutter 29,599]

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not sure if inter racism is a phrase...  I was meaning from one ethnic/cultural group to another.  

Wasn't trying to down play down racism toward indigenous Australians in any way at all.

I feel all forms of racism need to be condemned.

gotcha, agreed

[Guest]

I am more of an observer these days of Demonland. Living as far away as I do and taking on other responsibilities means that I haven't been able to follow football or engage in fan communities as much as I did. However, reading this thread, I feel compelled to respond to some of the comments as I am genuinely flabbergasted by many of them.

I'd like to add some perspective to contest the idea that racism is essentially a contest of that says whichever person/nationality who is perceived to have made the most provocative remark, made the grossest assumption or took the most aggressive positioning in a debate is the 'real' racist(s). I need to say straight away that I am not the font of all knowledge on this topic, and can NOT say I can completely relate to the experience of Black people. Quite bluntly, I think that this conversation also should actually have someone actively identifying as Black in it as the vilification of a Black man is what most of it has revolved around (and my apologies anyone on here who fits that description who I have overlooked). It seems that it's mostly non black people sounding off and the people affected can not speak for themselves. However, I think that I can add something to the discussion based on my own experience as it relates to an earlier post. This will be long, but there is a point if you are prepared to read through it.

It was mentioned by @Grr-owl that he has encountered racist thinking during his years lived overseas. As a white male who has lived in Japan for 10 years now, I will agree that one will encounter stereotyped thinking that can be presumptuous and on occasion demeaning to one as a person. I have had a range of things said and done to me over the years ranging from:
△ having a waiter at a pasta restaurant that I was on a date at be told by said date that I would order the bolognaise sauce because 'I was a foreigner' ?
△ being asked if I ate 'kangaroos' on my first day at work in my first year in the country ?　
△being asked to leave a pizza restaurant because of my close cropped hair cut (there had been drunk US servicemen who had trashed the place previously at that venue)?,
△ condescending comments about how it's amazing I can speak Japanese at all (despite living a quarter of my life here) and can use chopsticks (imagine the reaction you'd get if you praised ANY nationality for being able to use a knife, fork or spoon) ?
△ being told to tell a group of students I was 'looking for a girlfriend' despite telling the teacher involved I am happily married (there is a stereotype among some that every foreigner is some type of hypersexualized skirt chaser)?

My experience is not an isolated one. Many a Western expat will tell you 100 different stories about the stuff they hear from locals and the comments they make about western gaijin (foreigners). However, one of these comments that caught my eye came on a Facebook comments section when someone wrote something in a thread regarding some of the goofy s*** they hear in their day to day life in Japan.

It was 'now know what it was like to be a black man in the USA'. 

My response to that (and apologies to @Demonland for the censored semi-fruity language, but this does make me genuinely frustrated and angry): Are you forking kidding me?

By the sounds of what I wrote above, some might come to the conclusion that this poster was vindicated in that statement. Indeed, taken without a broader context in mind it would seem to be completely validated. However, one needs to actually look at systemic racism to actually realize that racism isn't just a case of the perpetually offended yet privileged screaming  'They called me a terrible name related to my race. That's racist (ergo my suffering is no different to Black people, indigenous peoples or persecuted religious minorities)!'

Historical context and societal frameworks, and the zeitgeist one is born into is the determining factor.

To make my point clearer, I'd like to revisit the example of Japan. Do I and other white guys encounter unenlightened attitudes? Make no mistake about it, we do. However, I would then pose to the reader this question: How should I compare the treatment Anglo-Saxon males (many who actively CHOSE to come here and can leave any time they like) get compared to ethnic Koreans in Japan? Theywere brought over as slave labor during WW2,  their women were used as sex slaves by the Japanese military (which still is not properly acknowledged by many in the Japanese government even today as many of those political big wigs had relatives make tidy profits off the work that was performed),  their country's heritage was nearly wiped out when the Japanese military government moved in, took over most of their businesses and forced schools to teach Japanese language. With that being the case,  one might have considered that there may have been some attempt at rapprochement (ala Germany) with those ethnic Koreans who stayed in Japan after the war rather than go back to a devastated and now unfamiliar home land (itself about to confront yet another war) or those born to ethnically Korean parents during the imperial/militarist era.

However, the constitution was set up to ensure that all benefits in the post war constitution went to the 'Japanese people', which in this country is defined purely by bloodline. This essentially guaranteed that ethnic Koreans here were basically stripped of the citizenship rights to someone ethnically Japanese born in this country (and in some cases, not born here). Not only did they not get the right to vote, they were excluded from the government run social welfare and medical programs the government implemented and had to turn up at their local city office to be fingerprinted up until 1993. With no access to the type of establishment connections and social capital that generations of Japanese families had, they were forced to live in the most run down parts of town and work in either hospitality, pachinko (gambling parlors), selling food on the street or in the Yakuza (one of the few societal groups open to most regardless of nationality). It goes without saying that a plurality of those jobs at best aren't deemed as prestigious and the other have a stigma attached to them. At worst, they were a cause of shame and caused many here to consider them societal debris. Hence, when they had to turn up at the city office to have their fingerprints taken, many ethnic Koreans were outing themselves (many often used the name given to them by the Japanese government) and subjected themselves to the contempt and harassment of their neighbors. 

In addition to this, ethnic Koreans still receive verbalized discrimination and prejudice quite regularly (which appears to me to have been defined as some as being the only recognized form of racism that exists) to this day. The Japanese extreme right wing regularly target Korean schools (which receive no funding from the Japanese government to the point they often have to rely on the DPRK government for funds) to the point where certain schools have had to close due to online and in person harassment campaigns. A coworker of mine once told me her school life was accompanied by constant taunts of being dirty and a North Korean collaborator by passers by as she went to school in her traditional Korean school uniform. Hell, two years in a row before the local festival in my little country town, the guy who hosts a local get together of locals that I was lucky enough to be invited to spent copious amounts of time convincing me that Korean gang members are taking over Sydney because of what his Japanese tour guide told him on a trip to said city. As an Aussie, this was news to me.

With all of what I just wrote in mind, who do you think has the right to feel that their existence is more threatened when they are racially slurred? The person who came over here voluntarily and lives with the warts and all of Japan's ad hoc approach to diversity? Or the person whose life story is intertwined with the story outlined above? It's absolutely vulgar and offensive to intimate to me that occasionally naive yet discriminatory and offensive statements are the moral equivalent to rhetoric that is often employed to justify societal oppression of those marginalized (as I can guarantee has been the case in the Korean example I raised as well). 

Now, team that up with what @binman so eloquently summed up before.  When someone like Stefan Molyneux peddles phrenology and race science, are people angry because he is simply being 'mean and offensive'? No. it's because that kind of slander was used to keep African Americans in their subservient position due to them being 'genetically, intellectually and morally inferior. When Heritier Lumumba becomes offended at being nicknamed 'Chimp' is it because he is a thin skinned, agenda driven zealot? No. It's because Africans were compared to monkeys and viewed as less worthy of citizenship rights (it was a consistently used slur by the French during the colonial period in Africa, and black men were actually displayed in zoos up until 1906). Are ethnic Koreans just a pack of snowflakes when one kills themselves as what happened in one case where one was bullied by their classmates so relentlessly and told that they stink of kimchi and they should commit suicide? No. It's because that rhetoric has also been used to deny them their rights and in many cases deny them jobs. History, context and current sociological status DO matter, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

P.S. I would recommend that people on here read 'Where to From Here? Chaos or Community?' by Martin Luther King, 'Bury the Chains' by Adam Hochschild and 'The New Jim Crow' by Michelle Alexander to see if being called a honky on the internet is as egregious a slur as being part of a marginalized community being disparaged.

P.P.S. Did I mention that indigenous people had their land taken from them and African Americans (and Haitians and Jamaicans) were brought to their new homelands in chains? Just thought I'd mention that if it wasn't mentioned elsewhere.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Colin B. Flaubert

[rjay 24,814]

Reposted with full quote below...

Was too good and didn't do justice to just abbreviate...

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by rjay

[rjay 24,814]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I am more of an observer these days of Demonland. Living as far away as I do and taking on other responsibilities means that I haven't been able to follow football or engage in fan communities as much as I did. However, reading this thread, I feel compelled to respond to some of the comments as I am genuinely flabbergasted by many of them.

I'd like to add some perspective to contest the idea that racism is essentially a contest of that says whichever person/nationality who is perceived to have made the most provocative remark, made the grossest assumption or took the most aggressive positioning in a debate is the 'real' racist(s). I need to say straight away that I am not the font of all knowledge on this topic, and can NOT say I can completely relate to the experience of Black people. Quite bluntly, I think that this conversation also should actually have someone actively identifying as Black in it as the vilification of a Black man is what most of it has revolved around (and my apologies anyone on here who fits that description who I have overlooked). It seems that it's mostly non black people sounding off and the people affected can not speak for themselves. However, I think that I can add something to the discussion based on my own experience as it relates to an earlier post. This will be long, but there is a point if you are prepared to read through it.

It was mentioned by @Grr-owl that he has encountered racist thinking during his years lived overseas. As a white male who has lived in Japan for 10 years now, I will agree that one will encounter stereotyped thinking that can be presumptuous and on occasion demeaning to one as a person. I have had a range of things said and done to me over the years ranging from:
△ having a waiter at a pasta restaurant that I was on a date at be told by said date that I would order the bolognaise sauce because 'I was a foreigner' ?
△ being asked if I ate 'kangaroos' on my first day at work in my first year in the country ?　
△being asked to leave a pizza restaurant because of my close cropped hair cut (there had been drunk US servicemen who had trashed the place previously at that venue)?,
△ condescending comments about how it's amazing I can speak Japanese at all (despite living a quarter of my life here) and can use chopsticks (imagine the reaction you'd get if you praised ANY nationality for being able to use a knife, fork or spoon) ?
△ being told to tell a group of students I was 'looking for a girlfriend' despite telling the teacher involved I am happily married (there is a stereotype among some that every foreigner is some type of hypersexualized skirt chaser)?

My experience is not an isolated one. Many a Western expat will tell you 100 different stories about the stuff they hear from locals and the comments they make about western gaijin (foreigners). However, one of these comments that caught my eye came on a Facebook comments section when someone wrote something in a thread regarding some of the goofy s*** they hear in their day to day life in Japan.

It was 'now know what it was like to be a black man in the USA'. 

My response to that (and apologies to @Demonland for the censored semi-fruity language, but this does make me genuinely frustrated and angry): Are you forking kidding me?

By the sounds of what I wrote above, some might come to the conclusion that this poster was vindicated in that statement. Indeed, taken without a broader context in mind it would seem to be completely validated. However, one needs to actually look at systemic racism to actually realize that racism isn't just a case of the perpetually offended yet privileged screaming  'They called me a terrible name related to my race. That's racist (ergo my suffering is no different to Black people, indigenous peoples or persecuted religious minorities)!'

Historical context and societal frameworks, and the zeitgeist one is born into is the determining factor.

To make my point clearer, I'd like to revisit the example of Japan. Do I and other white guys encounter unenlightened attitudes? Make no mistake about it, we do. However, I would then pose to the reader this question: How should I compare the treatment Anglo-Saxon males (many who actively CHOSE to come here and can leave any time they like) get compared to ethnic Koreans in Japan? Theywere brought over as slave labor during WW2,  their women were used as sex slaves by the Japanese military (which still is not properly acknowledged by many in the Japanese government even today as many of those political big wigs had relatives make tidy profits off the work that was performed),  their country's heritage was nearly wiped out when the Japanese military government moved in, took over most of their businesses and forced schools to teach Japanese language. With that being the case,  one might have considered that there may have been some attempt at rapprochement (ala Germany) with those ethnic Koreans who stayed in Japan after the war rather than go back to a devastated and now unfamiliar home land (itself about to confront yet another war) or those born to ethnically Korean parents during the imperial/militarist era.

However, the constitution was set up to ensure that all benefits in the post war constitution went to the 'Japanese people', which in this country is defined purely by bloodline. This essentially guaranteed that ethnic Koreans here were basically stripped of the citizenship rights to someone ethnically Japanese born in this country (and in some cases, not born here). Not only did they not get the right to vote, they were excluded from the government run social welfare and medical programs the government implemented and had to turn up at their local city office to be fingerprinted up until 1993. With no access to the type of establishment connections and social capital that generations of Japanese families had, they were forced to live in the most run down parts of town and work in either hospitality, pachinko (gambling parlors), selling food on the street or in the Yakuza (one of the few societal groups open to most regardless of nationality). It goes without saying that a plurality of those jobs at best aren't deemed as prestigious and the other have a stigma attached to them. At worst, they were a cause of shame and caused many here to consider them societal debris. Hence, when they had to turn up at the city office to have their fingerprints taken, many ethnic Koreans were outing themselves (many often used the name given to them by the Japanese government) and subjected themselves to the contempt and harassment of their neighbors. 

In addition to this, ethnic Koreans still receive verbalized discrimination and prejudice quite regularly (which appears to me to have been defined as some as being the only recognized form of racism that exists) to this day. The Japanese extreme right wing regularly target Korean schools (which receive no funding from the Japanese government to the point they often have to rely on the DPRK government for funds) to the point where certain schools have had to close due to online and in person harassment campaigns. A coworker of mine once told me her school life was accompanied by constant taunts of being dirty and a North Korean collaborator by passers by as she went to school in her traditional Korean school uniform. Hell, two years in a row before the local festival in my little country town, the guy who hosts a local get together of locals that I was lucky enough to be invited to spent copious amounts of time convincing me that Korean gang members are taking over Sydney because of what his Japanese tour guide told him on a trip to said city. As an Aussie, this was news to me.

With all of what I just wrote in mind, who do you think has the right to feel that their existence is more threatened when they are racially slurred? The person who came over here voluntarily and lives with the warts and all of Japan's ad hoc approach to diversity? Or the person whose life story is intertwined with the story outlined above? It's absolutely vulgar and offensive to intimate to me that occasionally naive yet discriminatory and offensive statements are the moral equivalent to rhetoric that is often employed to justify societal oppression of those marginalized (as I can guarantee has been the case in the Korean example I raised as well). 

Now, team that up with what @binman so eloquently summed up before.  When someone like Stefan Molyneux peddles phrenology and race science, are people angry because he is simply being 'mean and offensive'? No. it's because that kind of slander was used to keep African Americans in their subservient position due to them being 'genetically, intellectually and morally inferior. When Heritier Lumumba becomes offended at being nicknamed 'Chimp' is it because he is a thin skinned, agenda driven zealot? No. It's because Africans were compared to monkeys and viewed as less worthy of citizenship rights (it was a consistently used slur by the French during the colonial period in Africa, and black men were actually displayed in zoos up until 1906). Are ethnic Koreans just a pack of snowflakes when one kills themselves as what happened in one case where one was bullied by their classmates so relentlessly and told that they stink of kimchi and they should commit suicide? No. It's because that rhetoric has also been used to deny them their rights and in many cases deny them jobs. History, context and current sociological status DO matter, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

P.S. I would recommend that people on here read 'Where to From Here? Chaos or Community?' by Martin Luther King, 'Bury the Chains' by Adam Hochschild and 'The New Jim Crow' by Michelle Alexander to see if being called a honky on the internet is as egregious a slur as being part of a marginalized community being disparaged.

P.P.S. Did I mention that indigenous people had their land taken from them and African Americans (and Haitians and Jamaicans) were brought to their new homelands in chains? Just thought I'd mention that if it wasn't mentioned elsewhere.

What a fantastic and enlightening post...not only enlightening but educational.

Thanks for taking the time 'Colin'.

Brilliant...

[Little Goffy 14,406]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

By the sounds of what I wrote above, some might come to the conclusion that this poster was vindicated in that statement. Indeed, taken without a broader context in mind it would seem to be completely validated. However, one needs to actually look at systemic racism to actually realize that racism isn't just a case of the perpetually offended yet privileged screaming  'They called me a terrible name related to my race. That's racist (ergo my suffering is no different to Black people, indigenous peoples or persecuted religious minorities)!'
 

Apologies for piggy-backing on your excellent contribution - I'll just toss in a micro-example that I've kept for myself as a kind of touchstone.

Amongst the general mess of abuse I (we all?) cop at random times in life, I have actually been quite viciously and even menacingly racially abused on a train.  Thing is - it was by an obviously crazy person and I could walk away in full confidence that it was a freak occurance and that if things had spiraled out of control I would have all manner of institutions backing me up and could realistically assume the sympathy and assistance of the next person I meet  the moment I'm clear of the scene.

And in that thought lies the difference.  The clarification for me was about having the humility to recognise that even though that was seriously alarming and unpleasant, the depth of it is nothing like what people have to navigate when they can't be confident of that institutional and social support.

I'm of the 'unlikely to eliminate racism in my lifetime' perspective, but I see the goal of reconciliation (as the most pressing example) as being to reach the point where the experience of racism for Indigenous Australians is much the same as mine.  "That was a crazy person, and that was upsetting, but I don't really have to think about it any more now that the moment is over."

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, rjay said:

What a fantastic and enlightening post...not only enlightening but educational.

Thanks for taking the time 'Colin'.

Brilliant...

Actually when I proof read it, I noticed some of the syntax was a bit mangled and there were pronouns, definite articles and all kinds of conjunctions missing! ? I'll put my failing English skills down to me speaking mostly Japanese at work. ?

[Fork 'em 6,983]

5 hours ago, binman said:

Thanks Fork em. And i don't mean that sarcastically. I promise

That video clip is literally one of the funniest things i have seen. Watching it i thought this simply has to be a parody. A brilliant one at that. One made even more funny by the fact the fellas name is Tom Macdonald.

It is just so pitch perfect the way nails every grievance of disenfranchised white men/babies fearing a future that does not involve them holding all the cards and being in power.

Men, who, without irony, see themselves as the real victims, victims that struggle to have a voice in this time of woke, cancel culture gone mad (which reminds me of the irony of Fox news, the most watched news outlet on the planet, railing against so called mainstream media).

As i say it simply has to be a parody, I did quick google search and he he names of some of his other tracks include; “Straight White Male”  “Everybody Hates Me” and "Coronavirus" - that of course pushes conspiracy theories.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Fantastic. 

Well played Fork em and big props to the comedic genius of Tom Macdonald.

 

Glad you enjoyed it.
Here's another just for you.
 

 

[dieter 3,325]

3 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I am more of an observer these days of Demonland. Living as far away as I do and taking on other responsibilities means that I haven't been able to follow football or engage in fan communities as much as I did. However, reading this thread, I feel compelled to respond to some of the comments as I am genuinely flabbergasted by many of them.

I'd like to add some perspective to contest the idea that racism is essentially a contest of that says whichever person/nationality who is perceived to have made the most provocative remark, made the grossest assumption or took the most aggressive positioning in a debate is the 'real' racist(s). I need to say straight away that I am not the font of all knowledge on this topic, and can NOT say I can completely relate to the experience of Black people. Quite bluntly, I think that this conversation also should actually have someone actively identifying as Black in it as the vilification of a Black man is what most of it has revolved around (and my apologies anyone on here who fits that description who I have overlooked). It seems that it's mostly non black people sounding off and the people affected can not speak for themselves. However, I think that I can add something to the discussion based on my own experience as it relates to an earlier post. This will be long, but there is a point if you are prepared to read through it.

It was mentioned by @Grr-owl that he has encountered racist thinking during his years lived overseas. As a white male who has lived in Japan for 10 years now, I will agree that one will encounter stereotyped thinking that can be presumptuous and on occasion demeaning to one as a person. I have had a range of things said and done to me over the years ranging from:
△ having a waiter at a pasta restaurant that I was on a date at be told by said date that I would order the bolognaise sauce because 'I was a foreigner' ?
△ being asked if I ate 'kangaroos' on my first day at work in my first year in the country ?　
△being asked to leave a pizza restaurant because of my close cropped hair cut (there had been drunk US servicemen who had trashed the place previously at that venue)?,
△ condescending comments about how it's amazing I can speak Japanese at all (despite living a quarter of my life here) and can use chopsticks (imagine the reaction you'd get if you praised ANY nationality for being able to use a knife, fork or spoon) ?
△ being told to tell a group of students I was 'looking for a girlfriend' despite telling the teacher involved I am happily married (there is a stereotype among some that every foreigner is some type of hypersexualized skirt chaser)?

My experience is not an isolated one. Many a Western expat will tell you 100 different stories about the stuff they hear from locals and the comments they make about western gaijin (foreigners). However, one of these comments that caught my eye came on a Facebook comments section when someone wrote something in a thread regarding some of the goofy s*** they hear in their day to day life in Japan.

It was 'now know what it was like to be a black man in the USA'. 

My response to that (and apologies to @Demonland for the censored semi-fruity language, but this does make me genuinely frustrated and angry): Are you forking kidding me?

By the sounds of what I wrote above, some might come to the conclusion that this poster was vindicated in that statement. Indeed, taken without a broader context in mind it would seem to be completely validated. However, one needs to actually look at systemic racism to actually realize that racism isn't just a case of the perpetually offended yet privileged screaming  'They called me a terrible name related to my race. That's racist (ergo my suffering is no different to Black people, indigenous peoples or persecuted religious minorities)!'

Historical context and societal frameworks, and the zeitgeist one is born into is the determining factor.

To make my point clearer, I'd like to revisit the example of Japan. Do I and other white guys encounter unenlightened attitudes? Make no mistake about it, we do. However, I would then pose to the reader this question: How should I compare the treatment Anglo-Saxon males (many who actively CHOSE to come here and can leave any time they like) get compared to ethnic Koreans in Japan? Theywere brought over as slave labor during WW2,  their women were used as sex slaves by the Japanese military (which still is not properly acknowledged by many in the Japanese government even today as many of those political big wigs had relatives make tidy profits off the work that was performed),  their country's heritage was nearly wiped out when the Japanese military government moved in, took over most of their businesses and forced schools to teach Japanese language. With that being the case,  one might have considered that there may have been some attempt at rapprochement (ala Germany) with those ethnic Koreans who stayed in Japan after the war rather than go back to a devastated and now unfamiliar home land (itself about to confront yet another war) or those born to ethnically Korean parents during the imperial/militarist era.

However, the constitution was set up to ensure that all benefits in the post war constitution went to the 'Japanese people', which in this country is defined purely by bloodline. This essentially guaranteed that ethnic Koreans here were basically stripped of the citizenship rights to someone ethnically Japanese born in this country (and in some cases, not born here). Not only did they not get the right to vote, they were excluded from the government run social welfare and medical programs the government implemented and had to turn up at their local city office to be fingerprinted up until 1993. With no access to the type of establishment connections and social capital that generations of Japanese families had, they were forced to live in the most run down parts of town and work in either hospitality, pachinko (gambling parlors), selling food on the street or in the Yakuza (one of the few societal groups open to most regardless of nationality). It goes without saying that a plurality of those jobs at best aren't deemed as prestigious and the other have a stigma attached to them. At worst, they were a cause of shame and caused many here to consider them societal debris. Hence, when they had to turn up at the city office to have their fingerprints taken, many ethnic Koreans were outing themselves (many often used the name given to them by the Japanese government) and subjected themselves to the contempt and harassment of their neighbors. 

In addition to this, ethnic Koreans still receive verbalized discrimination and prejudice quite regularly (which appears to me to have been defined as some as being the only recognized form of racism that exists) to this day. The Japanese extreme right wing regularly target Korean schools (which receive no funding from the Japanese government to the point they often have to rely on the DPRK government for funds) to the point where certain schools have had to close due to online and in person harassment campaigns. A coworker of mine once told me her school life was accompanied by constant taunts of being dirty and a North Korean collaborator by passers by as she went to school in her traditional Korean school uniform. Hell, two years in a row before the local festival in my little country town, the guy who hosts a local get together of locals that I was lucky enough to be invited to spent copious amounts of time convincing me that Korean gang members are taking over Sydney because of what his Japanese tour guide told him on a trip to said city. As an Aussie, this was news to me.

With all of what I just wrote in mind, who do you think has the right to feel that their existence is more threatened when they are racially slurred? The person who came over here voluntarily and lives with the warts and all of Japan's ad hoc approach to diversity? Or the person whose life story is intertwined with the story outlined above? It's absolutely vulgar and offensive to intimate to me that occasionally naive yet discriminatory and offensive statements are the moral equivalent to rhetoric that is often employed to justify societal oppression of those marginalized (as I can guarantee has been the case in the Korean example I raised as well). 

Now, team that up with what @binman so eloquently summed up before.  When someone like Stefan Molyneux peddles phrenology and race science, are people angry because he is simply being 'mean and offensive'? No. it's because that kind of slander was used to keep African Americans in their subservient position due to them being 'genetically, intellectually and morally inferior. When Heritier Lumumba becomes offended at being nicknamed 'Chimp' is it because he is a thin skinned, agenda driven zealot? No. It's because Africans were compared to monkeys and viewed as less worthy of citizenship rights (it was a consistently used slur by the French during the colonial period in Africa, and black men were actually displayed in zoos up until 1906). Are ethnic Koreans just a pack of snowflakes when one kills themselves as what happened in one case where one was bullied by their classmates so relentlessly and told that they stink of kimchi and they should commit suicide? No. It's because that rhetoric has also been used to deny them their rights and in many cases deny them jobs. History, context and current sociological status DO matter, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

P.S. I would recommend that people on here read 'Where to From Here? Chaos or Community?' by Martin Luther King, 'Bury the Chains' by Adam Hochschild and 'The New Jim Crow' by Michelle Alexander to see if being called a honky on the internet is as egregious a slur as being part of a marginalized community being disparaged.

P.P.S. Did I mention that indigenous people had their land taken from them and African Americans (and Haitians and Jamaicans) were brought to their new homelands in chains? Just thought I'd mention that if it wasn't mentioned elsewhere.

You have history on your side. Europe, for example, is full of these ethnic and religious prejudices and hatred, mostly of 'foreign- speaking' neighbours, but almost universally of Jews. It's the ugly side of the human situation. 

What I find disturbing, is that the notion of the 'inferior'  or 'bad'  other seems to be ingrained in all of us. I note how quickly prejudice and misinformation about the Chinese has risen to the surface recently, how quickly we condemn Muslims, how easy it has been to ignore the massive injustice we have perpetrated on so-called 'Boat People'. 

Most pernicious, is the condescending and almost lethal attitude to the original inhabitants  of this country called Australia. I have encountered and heard so much racist bilge and bulldust about them and nowadays I lose friends and make enemies by asking the bulldusters to question the attitudes they were born into, to question the 'history' which mostly distorts the real story of these people.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

You mentioned some others.
Some good stuff

 

And try this one on.
Should really get you pontificating with one of your sermons.

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Fork 'em

[binman 42,485]

Gold fork em. Ta.

Can you do me a favour and find the clips for his other hits:

It's all right, I'm all white

For Chan, and my crew

Triggered

Woman, know your place

Don't put your QAnon in the rack

I won't mail it in. Don't you 

Fake news

The boogaloo boys shuffle

Don't oppress me

Cancel this 

Edited July 17, 2020 by binman

[Dr. Gonzo 24,125]

14 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I am more of an observer these days of Demonland. Living as far away as I do and taking on other responsibilities means that I haven't been able to follow football or engage in fan communities as much as I did. However, reading this thread, I feel compelled to respond to some of the comments as I am genuinely flabbergasted by many of them.
@Grr-owl?????@Demonland

What a fantastic post, you've clearly articulated why any whinging about racism or oppression by white people is utterly ludicrous. Being called names doesn't hold a candle to institutional discrimination, oppression and in a lot of cases, genocide.

[Brownie 5,967]

I haven't read this thread end to end but if it hasn't been mentioned, there was a bloody wonderful doco on the ABC a week or so ago.

Really worth a walk in someone else's shoes. You can see how the system is set up to send a family like this into a tail spin.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/in-my-blood-it-runs

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

History doesn't connect dots very well.   Really spend a week or so in Malaysia, Italy or New Zealand....never ending.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,125]

On 7/12/2020 at 2:43 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

And also forced to undergo some kind of education and reconciliation process.  Probably not going to sink through to all of them, but perhaps it will for some and in that way hopefully some kind of progress can be made.

It also needs the mainstream media to take a strong stand and call it out as well.  Channel Nine's reaction to Pauline Hanson's latest jib of racist comments, still lent her an air of legitimacy that she doesn't deserve by only going as far as labeling her statements as divisive and not having the guts to call her our for being the racist bigot that she it.  People like Pauline encourage and give comfort to the faceless racists amoung us and the mainstream media has been giving them a platform for way too long now at the expense of basic decency.

It's not just the media reporting on racist idiots like Hanson. It's the medias reporting and agenda in general. I mean look at the commercial medias subtle and more often blatant racist reporting regarding "African gangs" "Muslim terrorists" "Aboriginal bludgers" etc etc etc

It's not just racist agendas they drive, but they are often the most abhorrent.

[binman 42,485]

1 hour ago, Brownie said:

I haven't read this thread end to end but if it hasn't been mentioned, there was a bloody wonderful doco on the ABC a week or so ago.

Really worth a walk in someone else's shoes. You can see how the system is set up to send a family like this into a tail spin.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/in-my-blood-it-runs

A brilliant doco. At my work we all watched together during reconciliation week. 

It is clearly shows what racism exists but more pertinately for the discussion in this thread what systemic racism is (and the distinction between the two) and it's pernicious impact.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,789]

39 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not just the media reporting on racist idiots like Hanson. It's the medias reporting and agenda in general. I mean look at the commercial medias subtle and more often blatant racist reporting regarding "African gangs" "Muslim terrorists" "Aboriginal bludgers" etc etc etc

It's not just racist agendas they drive, but they are often the most abhorrent.

They are professional manipulators they prey on the weaknesses of human nature to make scapegoats of minorities and blame someone else for the problems facing society.  Politicians like Dutton are expert at it and assisted by Murdoch and Co.  These people are too well resourced to be doing it unintentionally.

These people often use the fig leaf of claiming to stand up for the right to free speech and that these sort of 'robust' conversations need to be had, but that's just BS cover for their racisim and wolf whistling.  Unless you are talking about combating racisim it's self, to be genuinely look to solve problems of youth viloence, or terrorism etc, there is absolutely no need to bring race into the conversation if you are looking to have a productive objective debate.  Bringing in race into the conversation in a negative context reinforces prejudices and us and them attitudes.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[CBDees 3,167]

15 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Actually when I proof read it, I noticed some of the syntax was a bit mangled and there were pronouns, definite articles and all kinds of conjunctions missing! ? I'll put my failing English skills down to me speaking mostly Japanese at work. ?

Where do you speak Japanese in Rowville? ?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Where do you speak Japanese in Rowville? ?

Hahahaha. ? I did live in Ringwood once and worked near Rowville (Ferntree Gully to be precise). 
The Rowville line is a homage to my Uncle Humphrey’s seminal 1998 ditty provided below:

 

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

Rowville drive in....... den of iniquity

[Call Me What You Will 751]

Just loving your work Colin!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,125]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:13 PM, Fork 'em said:

Did I say I didn't want racism to end?
Be great in a perfect world if it wasn't a thing.

But guess what ..... The world isn't perfect and never will be.
 

Go right ahead.
Live in ya little echo chamber.

Racism will always exist.

Institutional racism can be eradicated.

[Lucifers Hero 39,371]

I am struggling to believe this has happened:

"Several players with Indigenous heritage were understood to be shocked when approached to have the immunisation {pneumococcal vaccinations} as part of their preparation for staying in Queensland and questioned why it was a requirement for them.

The AFLPA was also annoyed they were not made aware of the condition before the AFL agreed to it and that it was not stipulated in the protocols they signed off on".

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-and-players-in-battle-over-vaccination-call-20200718-p55d8z.html

If that is not discriminatory, I don't know what is. 

The AFL are just not seriousness about racism and discrimination.  Firstly, no rebuttal (that I saw) re the Harley vilification.  And now it seems they have stealthily subjected indigenous players to a treatment their teammates are not.  Shameful AFL.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

12 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I am struggling to believe this has happened:

"Several players with Indigenous heritage were understood to be shocked when approached to have the immunisation {pneumococcal vaccinations} as part of their preparation for staying in Queensland and questioned why it was a requirement for them.

The AFLPA was also annoyed they were not made aware of the condition before the AFL agreed to it and that it was not stipulated in the protocols they signed off on".

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-and-players-in-battle-over-vaccination-call-20200718-p55d8z.html

If that is not discriminatory, I don't know what is. 

The AFL are just not seriousness about racism and discrimination.  Firstly, no rebuttal (that I saw) re the Harley vilification.  And now it seems they have stealthily subjected indigenous players to a treatment their teammates are not.  Shameful AFL.

This whole situation seems either some good old fashioned misreporting, a gross overreaction by the AFLPA or some over the top reporting by an ever-increasing rabid media industry (I know which I'm leaning towards).

Indigenous Australians have some of the highest rates in the world of pneumonia. Clearly that has meant given the current health climate they may need extra protection. That is what the vaccine will provide.

Hardly think that protecting their health based on scientific evidence is "discriminatory", in fact it seems quite the opposite. The reporting here is bordering on plain silly, imagine trying to represent professional athletes, who undergo countless medical procedures and other health treatments, as "shocked" that they would need a vaccine.

[rjay 24,814]

23 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I am struggling to believe this has happened:

"Several players with Indigenous heritage were understood to be shocked when approached to have the immunisation {pneumococcal vaccinations} as part of their preparation for staying in Queensland and questioned why it was a requirement for them.

The AFLPA was also annoyed they were not made aware of the condition before the AFL agreed to it and that it was not stipulated in the protocols they signed off on".

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-and-players-in-battle-over-vaccination-call-20200718-p55d8z.html

If that is not discriminatory, I don't know what is. 

The AFL are just not seriousness about racism and discrimination.  Firstly, no rebuttal (that I saw) re the Harley vilification.  And now it seems they have stealthily subjected indigenous players to a treatment their teammates are not.  Shameful AFL.

 

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

This whole situation seems either some good old fashioned misreporting, a gross overreaction by the AFLPA or some over the top reporting by an ever-increasing rabid media industry (I know which I'm leaning towards).

Indigenous Australians have some of the highest rates in the world of pneumonia. Clearly that has meant given the current health climate they may need extra protection. That is what the vaccine will provide.

Hardly think that protecting their health based on scientific evidence is "discriminatory", in fact it seems quite the opposite. The reporting here is bordering on plain silly, imagine trying to represent professional athletes, who undergo countless medical procedures and other health treatments, as "shocked" that they would need a vaccine.

Peter Ryan who reported it is not an ambulance chaser so I would take the report as being right. He's no Tom Browne

A question, is it just the indigenous players that have to get this particular vaccination?

I know an issue blew up earlier in the NRL about players needing to have a flu shot before they were able to play in Qld...