On 09/07/2020 at 11:16, John Demonic said:

365k a year according to fox footy. That's a bit far off. 

It’s higher yeah. But you need to pay extra to attract players. Especially ones that just played in the GF. 
 

he had a very poor game. Let’s hope he finds some hunger and plays better in the future 

  On 09/07/2020 at 11:35, Lord Travis said:

Happy with Smith out. He was horrible as a back men. His game against Carlton was probably the worst I can remember from a Melbourne player. 

He either needs to make it as a forward now or he’s an easy delist option with us having to reduce list size due to corona fallout.

I know you’ve been barracking for this club for a long time. We’ve both been through some truly horrific individual displays from players. 
Smith has been putrid down back, but he doesn’t come close to some of the truly horrific displays of footy we’ve seen from the likes of Newton, Morton, Gisberts, That ginger kid whose name escapes me, Heffernan, Moorcroft and the list goes on and on and on. 

The bad days of Nicholson pre-beard, Holland, Carroll pre-jail. Ah memories. 

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:25, binman said:

Goody seems to agree with you.

You are probably right about his game but he played on one the best forwards in the game for the whole game and kept him to 1 contested mark, 2 marks inside 50 and 1 goal zip. 

As a point of comparison lynch kicked 3.2. Who was on him?

It's not as simple as that though. For starters Lynch is their no 1 target.

If I had the ability or inclination I'd go through post vids of all Smith's possessions/contests for analysis but it's probably easier to just check the timestamps of my posts in the game day thread

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:26, JTR said:

You used Petracca as the comparison... ?

There are a lot of knocks on OMac, but kicking is not one of them. 

Jason Johanissen (if you want a comparison with a defender) was rated as one of the best kicks last season, and he was 72.1

O Mac is good kick. Mostly under not much pressure. His decision making is still not great though. 
petracca is a far superior kick. I’m amazed I have to even argue this point. 

Outs

Smith: Suns talls are Day and King so bringing in OMac for height.  Lever to play 3rd defender and intercept.  No excuses. Smith and Lever have been ordinary so one had to go. 
 

Rivers: unlucky. Good kid. Glad he’s in red and blue. 200 gamer imo. 
 

Tomlinson: he’s no wingman.  It was a bizarre statement. Yes he’s got athletic endurance but no pace or agility. He’s a CHB or CHF imo. Last week he went half paced and one handed so paid the penalty. At $500k a year for 5 years he’s an investment that needs an spark. 
 

Hunt: poor. Very poor last week. Good against Carlton but 2 weeks of disappointing form. I still think he should be tried as a half back or wingman again. That’s where he played his best footy in 2016-17! We are oversupplied with half forwards. 
 

ins. 
 

Weid: finally. NOW PLAY HIM FOR 5 GAMES. He’s critical now. He needs to be our key forward.  It’s that simple.  If he crashes in the 5 weeks, then sure an EOY trade may be needed. But give him a go and tell him not to always go under the footy. 
 

Jetta: he is showing signs of ageing and tough style of play. I think he’s still our best back pocket right now. He will be busy with Rankine or Ainsworth. They are quick and skilled. 
 

Bennell: the experiment continues. Skilled. Silky. But fragile. Fingers crossed but we gotta play him on and off this year. Play in the forward fifty on rotation. 
 

Omac - in for Smith. But he has been slow and ineffective of late and needs to have a few Red Bull shots of energy. Too hesitant mostly and career imo is on the edge. 

unlucky - Jones : hard to see where the elder statesman now fits. I love the bloke but difficult to see him getting back right now. 

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by spirit of norm smith
X

  On 09/07/2020 at 10:50, DubDee said:

Anyone that thinks Tomlinson is stiff, just rewatch last weeks game. One poor game can be excused for sure but not putting your body on the line for the team, you are cut. 
well done Goodwin 

Agree with this in a big way. Watched the game on replay today on FOX and there was a contest inside 50, after he had been swung forward, and he pulled out of the contest and didn’t make body contact. It was pathetic. For a bloke his size, he does not use his strength and crack in. Looks like Tarzan plays like...

  On 09/07/2020 at 11:16, John Demonic said:

365k a year according to fox footy. That's a bit far off. 

It's not when you realise that includes draftees.

For a player with 140 games experience, it's the going salary. 

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:29, DubDee said:

O Mac is good kick. Mostly under not much pressure. His decision making is still not great though. 
petracca is a far superior kick. I’m amazed I have to even argue this point. 

Depends what you mean by a far superior kick? Omac has a better technique and as a result turns it over less. His decision making is fine.

Petracca can spear a ball but he can also butcher it.

"Goodwin is too stubborn"

 

"I can't believe Goodwin is giving up on the Smith-down-back / Mid-size-forward-line / Tomlinson-trade / insert-other-tactical-option plan already!"

 

 

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:29, DubDee said:

O Mac is good kick. Mostly under not much pressure. His decision making is still not great though. 
petracca is a far superior kick. I’m amazed I have to even argue this point. 

I didn't realise it was an argument about Petracca v OMac?

My point was that OMac is a lot better kick than most give him credit for. That's it, full stop.

Again, the comparison to Petracca was yours.  If you're not happy with that one given their relative playing positions, then compare him to pretty much any other defender in the game, KPP or otherwise. Stacks up against all of them too.

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by JTR

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:28, Jaded said:

I know you’ve been barracking for this club for a long time. We’ve both been through some truly horrific individual displays from players. 
Smith has been putrid down back, but he doesn’t come close to some of the truly horrific displays of footy we’ve seen from the likes of Newton, Morton, Gisberts, That ginger kid whose name escapes me, Heffernan, Moorcroft and the list goes on and on and on. 

The bad days of Nicholson pre-beard, Holland, Carroll pre-jail. Ah memories. 

Fair call. Everything’s a blur these days. So many years of failure and so few champions or great years. I still remember Nicholson getting toweled up by Matthew Lloyd in the early 2000s.

How about Issac Weetra dominating?!

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by Lord Travis

I can see  it now King kicks the winning goal out marking May ... 

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by Hogan2014

  On 09/07/2020 at 08:28, MF-C said:

wow Tomlinson out 

Dolph Lundren physique with the intimidation factor of Charlie Spargo

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:35, deanox said:

It's not when you realise that includes draftees.

For a player with 140 games experience, it's the going salary. 

500k for 3 years, I accept. You take a risk, fill a position in need of urgent attention for the club. But how can he get a 4th and 5th year without any performance based trigger clause. He's not a very good player or has any potential to be one. He's serviceable and could even fall into permanent depth within a couple of years if other players on list develop or trades/recruits come in with a better burst of speed and skill that take that wing position. Then there's a 2 or 3 years x500k hole in the cap.

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by John Demonic

  On 09/07/2020 at 13:01, John Demonic said:

500k for 3 years, I accept. You take a risk, fill a position in need of urgent attention for the club. But how can he get a 4th and 5th year without any performance based trigger clause. He's not a very good player or has any potential to be one. He's serviceable and could even fall into permanent depth within a couple of years if other players on list develop or trades/recruits come in with a better burst of speed and skill that take that wing position. Then there's a 2 or 3 years x500k hole in the cap.

I can agree with that. But it's only 1 year "too many". He is on a four year contract. I'm guessing that that last year is the price we pay for buying a free agent (instead of a draft pick), and I'm ok with that. He had 140 games of exposed form, so we knew what were were buying. He may have performance clauses in the contract, he may not. But the cap was expected to raise during that time too.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/52273/inaugural-giant-tomlinson-joins-dees-as-free-agent-compensation-revealed

  On 09/07/2020 at 11:56, Dr. Gonzo said:

Sometimes I think I'm watching a different game to other people - Smith was terrible against the Tigers, just rubbish. He was not the reason we lost by any means but he didn't help. His positioning was terrible, his judgement was terrible (when to go for the spoil, when to not even attempt one), his turnovers killed us. I would have been absolutely shocked if he was not dropped.

I get the angst with Melksham, he was rubbish last week as well and not much better against the Cats. But at least Melksham has runs on the board and he is one of the few players we know is capable of kicking 4 goals. He is on thin ice but I get why he has been given another chance.

As you know l am not a fan  of  Joel Smith  However l want him to play well when he is picked but he is frustrating to watch.  Little boy lost.

 Give me one good game or being worthy of his position  over the time he has being here?    He is no near to being in our best 22.  We have a healthy list and he gets a game ?  Well what can l say.

It is a well balanced side this week and they can turn it around. I would have kept Rivers but  will bounce back as he has the time in front of him.

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:37, deanox said:

"Goodwin is too stubborn"

 

"I can't believe Goodwin is giving up on the Smith-down-back / Mid-size-forward-line / Tomlinson-trade / insert-other-tactical-option plan already!"

 

 

Goodwin made the right moves at selection.  Now lets see how he goes on game day.

  On 09/07/2020 at 12:32, Leoncelli_36 said:

Agree with this in a big way. Watched the game on replay today on FOX and there was a contest inside 50, after he had been swung forward, and he pulled out of the contest and didn’t make body contact. It was pathetic. For a bloke his size, he does not use his strength and crack in. Looks like Tarzan plays like...

  On 09/07/2020 at 10:50, DubDee said:

Anyone that thinks Tomlinson is stiff, just rewatch last weeks game. One poor game can be excused for sure but not putting your body on the line for the team, you are cut. 
well done Goodwin 

No question he went half hearted a couple of times but the fondly remembered Pedo did a lot worse & managed to redeem himself. So I'm kinda happy he's receiving a message but not thrilled he's dumped.

Wing play has changed from the days of Stanley Alves, Robbie, Stinger & Matty Febey. Brisbane's Mitch Robinson wrote an excellent article on the subject and the stuff you do without the ball is nearly as important as what you do with it.

Admittedly we're all limited because we can only see what the TV screen displays but I think Tomlinson has improved us structurally and is being underutilised, especially on kick-ins. Was disappointed that he was moved from the wing last weekend to ruck & play forward. At the same time I was heartened thinking that Goodwin had finally conceded that his one-tall forward structure doesn't bloody work.

His defensive positioning and work rate was been really good. We can all recall how often we've been scored against by a switch to the fat side followed by a kick over the back of our defence in recent years. I'm of the view that the positioning & work rate of both Tomlinson & Langdon has reduced that pressure on our backline. He's also been burnt several times by May on kick-ins. He's made good position to May's right but Steven appears to have eyes only for the long kick to his left to Max (usually outnumbered), or a cheap dump off to Salem in the pocket.

Finally, that exhilarating bit of play against Carlton where Rivers streamed through the middle & hit the leading Hunt lace out for a goal. Doesn't happen last year. Any our makeshift 2019 wingers would have been sucked towards the contest. Tomlinson had the discipline & awareness to hold his position & be the outlet which put Rivers into space.

He's no Stanley Alves, Robbie, Stinger or Matty Febey. Nor a Brad Hill or Isaac Smith. But I think he's the second best winger we've got. Hope he learns his lesson & fights back into the side.

  On 09/07/2020 at 13:58, Rusty Nails said:

Hang on....how do you know she won't go all right? Got nothing to lose.?

  On 09/07/2020 at 14:06, Dame Gaga said:

Hang on....how do you know she won't go all right? Got nothing to lose.?

No arguments from me DG...blows a decent horn!

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by Rusty Nails

  On 09/07/2020 at 08:38, Leoncelli_36 said:

Agree with a lot of the changes, but reckon Rivers is far better than Lockhart and I would have liked to see Hunt used elsewhere. He has been good this year with the limited supply. Hardly think he has been part of the problem this season. Also, Melksham and AVB are very lucky to hold spots. Acid test this week for the FD and Goody

Man, you really don’t like Lockhart! I reckon we should give him another week and take it from there. I can't help but feel he'll come good. 

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by Mel Bourne

  On 09/07/2020 at 08:29, MF-C said:

how on earth does AVB stay in ahead of Rivers/Tomlinson? 

 

He improved on the previous weeks performance.  Ok it was very marginal but he has a few extra credits in the bank.  Add to this he is returning from a long layoff.  Probably gets him over the line....just.

  On 09/07/2020 at 08:30, CHF said:

I like this team a lot more than I have liked the teams over the last few weeks. 

Good inclusions and a better overall structure.

Will be watching VdB closely as he is the one in the team that I would have replaced.

Viney was worse imo.  Vanders at least improved a smidgen.  Bit of a coin flip though.  Would have considered ANB for Viney.  Push Harmes into the starting 3 mids with Tracc & Clarry.

Viney's crash bash effort can't be faulted but what he does (or doesn't do as the case may be) afterwards is a blight on our great game and a massive coach / team / confidence killer.

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by Rusty Nails

  On 09/07/2020 at 15:01, Rusty Nails said:

Viney was worse imo.  Vanders at least improved a smidgen.  Bit of a coin flip though.  Would have considered ANB for Viney.  Push Harmes into the starting 3 mids with Tracc & Clarry.

Viney's crash bash effort can't be faulted but what he does (or doesn't do as the case may be) afterwards is a blight on our great game and a massive coach / team / confidence killer.

I agree with you re Viney's game last week. He looks as if he is off the pace fitness wise and is not sticking tackles or staying anywhere defensively near his man. Also is not getting to contests as he should.

I gave him one more week.