1 hour ago, Redleg said:

That kick is typical of the dumb decision making of too many of our players.

Viney had the time, as the photo shows, to see the free men and at least try and pass it to them.

He then compounds the mistake with another pathetic kick.

This scenario is repeated often by our players.

 

If you wind it back a few seconds you'll also see that Viney should never have had the ball in his hands. Salem received a handball & chipped a kick to Viney (barely 15 metres). McDonald was already free & should have been hit up by Salem with what was a pretty easy kick of about 30 metres in no traffic. Poor vision or poor decision ? Or did he just feel pressure & dump it off to the nearest cheap option ?

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Who knew? Apparently there is a collective known for a group of butchers. It's a goring of butchers. I'm not sure why, but having read this thread, that name somehow seems appropriate.

Thanks for contributing 

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

That kick is typical of the dumb decision making of too many of our players.

Viney had the time, as the photo shows, to see the free men and at least try and pass it to them.

He then compounds the mistake with another pathetic kick.

This scenario is repeated often by our players.

 

Yes agree but why? These players are not that dumb surely. I just don’t understand our inability to rectify a basic and easily solvable problem.

On 7/6/2020 at 8:22 AM, drdrake said:

Really it is 20 years of drafting and trading  on this topic though we drafted a midfield of contested ball players for Paul Roos game plan, it works if you hit targets but our mids just turn the ball over by hand and foot

They do but all of them are quite capable of disposing of the ball in a more efficient manner ... but our ballistic style doesn't allow the players to steady or take that extra bit of time before disposing of the ball.  Lowering of the eyes is almost non existent.

And our forwards do not present,  play in front nor provide moving targets with multiple leads.

So it's a coaching issue as well.  Plapp is the midfield coach with Mathews as the stoppages & contest coach whilst Goodwin oversees it all.

There's a lot to fix but if they have a clear plan,  things can be turned around. 

That takes time doc ... how long? 

Who knows but urgency is required.  We need to see a rapid improvement in the next month starting Saturday evening.

18 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

Thanks for contributing 

You're welcome.

And while on this theme, the collective noun for Demons is apparently a "legion of Demons".  

I might be wrong, but I think the correct collective noun for Demonland contributors is a "misery of Demonlanders".

 

On 7/5/2020 at 6:24 PM, drdrake said:

Blame paul roos, these are the type of players he wanted contested players.

We loaded up on them  the issue we have is we will the footy but turn it over because we have poor disposl skills 

Being a contested player doesn't mean you have poor skills. They are not mutually exclusive.

40 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Being a contested player doesn't mean you have poor skills. They are not mutually exclusive.

Roos and goody must not have got this memo)

(by the by of course it is true - nothing wrong with the skills of players like Neale, Martin, Ablett, Selwood, Zorko, Sidebottom, Rowell, Shuey, and Cripps. to name a few)

19 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes agree but why? These players are not that dumb surely. I just don’t understand our inability to rectify a basic and easily solvable problem.

It's not being rectified because it's not easily solvable. Just as Jack Watts will never lose his sublime disposal and decision-making skills, the reverse is also true.

It can be compensated for, and team play can be built around individual players' weaknesses, but there's a limit to how much compensating you can do for players who have neither the foot skills nor the vision (but who may have other attributes).

I don't have an issue with a bull-at-a-gate ball-winner like Viney having poor disposal/decision making skills. It's only an issue because none of the players around him are much better, so it's not even as if he can hand the ball off to someone who'll make sure it gets to where it needs to.

On 7/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, JTR said:

Look at this...

Viney with the ball kicking inside 50.

Left to right he has Hunt running to space, McDonald on his own with no one near him and Langdon on his own with no one near him.

Where does it go?

Long bomb to Fritsch in a 1v3

That not a problem with the forward structure.  It's just taking the wrong option when going inside 50. 

Much as I like Viney, he is one of the worst offenders. 

This is one of the reasons why some people felt Angus was expendable in the right trade. 

All our mids are competitive beasts but none is consistent by foot. Oliver is the best at clearances and fast hands. He is also a ball magnet. Viney is a bull and a club leader. Despite also being capable, that leaves Angus as the last picked in the role, and therefore the most expendable. 

If the right player could be found it could be a win win trade. 

3 minutes ago, deanox said:

This is one of the reasons why some people felt Angus was expendable in the right trade. 

All our mids are competitive beasts but none is consistent by foot. Oliver is the best at clearances and fast hands. He is also a ball magnet. Viney is a bull and a club leader. Despite also being capable, that leaves Angus as the last picked in the role, and therefore the most expendable. 

If the right player could be found it could be a win win trade. 

I agree with you.  BT (as much as I don't rate him as a commentator) kept mentioning in the Geelong game that he spends too much time on the bench and that could suggest that he's the most expendable.

I now want Brayshaw traded and hopefully his third placed finish will still hold some currency. 

 

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

It's not being rectified because it's not easily solvable. Just as Jack Watts will never lose his sublime disposal and decision-making skills, the reverse is also true.

It can be compensated for, and team play can be built around individual players' weaknesses, but there's a limit to how much compensating you can do for players who have neither the foot skills nor the vision (but who may have other attributes).

I agree that developing disposal and decision making is not easy and some will never improve but what about vision? Watch a replay of last week’s match and freeze frame a dozen or so of our moves through the midfield and entering 50, time and time again as our player is about to kick you will see 3 or 4 better options than the one he chooses and often they were easier targets 20/30m off to the right or left to a free player. Instead our ball carriers invariably kicked to a contest, or just to a point up the line or tried a low % bullet that got intercepted. Why aren’t they looking for wider options that change the angle of attack and force defences to reset? And it’s just not vision, in these empty stadiums they should be hearing free players calls. Watching the the first half again it seemed every time we transitioned out of defence thru the corridor the ball carrier had Langdon running on the wing as an option, he really does cover some ground but few used the option, why? Looking at the first half in detail it looked like our forwards often moved to the right areas to lose their opponent but we rarely took advantage. Instead the Tiger defence tended to gather in numbers around TMac 25m out from goal and wait for the bomb. 
 

Yes we have players with limited foot skills and we will always turn the ball over at times but the coaches should be encouraging and drilling players to look to use wide options, shorter passes to a free player, pause after a mark and look for best option instead of the blindly turning and kicking up the line. 

Ross has been reading Demonland... ?

 

 

FWIW, he (who has been at our last 2 games) doesn't think it's a technical problem and thinks it's all about decision making and not taking the easy option.

We are also going at manic speed the entire time (or in the "Red Zone" as other Lyon said) and playing with no composure.

Stat from weekend...

Edited July 8, 20204 yr by JTR

On 7/7/2020 at 6:56 PM, Go the Biff said:

If you wind it back a few seconds you'll also see that Viney should never have had the ball in his hands. Salem received a handball & chipped a kick to Viney (barely 15 metres). McDonald was already free & should have been hit up by Salem with what was a pretty easy kick of about 30 metres in no traffic. Poor vision or poor decision ? Or did he just feel pressure & dump it off to the nearest cheap option ?

Biff that's a fabulous pick up.  Since about Rnd 18 or so last season (might have been even earlier....when returning from an injury layoff?) Salem has looked a shadow of his 2017/2018 self imv. 

Rarely takes the game on and, more often than not, takes the easy short dump kick to a player backwards, in a barely advantageous position lateral or down the line to a player pinned on the boundary

Used to be a confident handy left footer over both short and medium distances.

Something's seems NQR with Salem right now.  I wonder what's up.  Happy to coast and try and fly under the radar?

On 7/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, JTR said:

Look at this...

Viney with the ball kicking inside 50.

Left to right he has Hunt running to space, McDonald on his own with no one near him and Langdon on his own with no one near him.

Where does it go?

Long bomb to Fritsch in a 1v3

That not a problem with the forward structure.  It's just taking the wrong option when going inside 50. 

Much as I like Viney, he is one of the worst offenders. 

It’s damning footage.

I suspect Goody is a football nerd and he’s trying too hard, i.e. he’s overworking everything. Much like Brendan Bolton before Teague took the reins.

I actually think we have the players but:

- the game plan doesn’t suit them - it’s too hard for them to consistently execute for 4 quarters, and there’s far too much margin for error in it; and

- Goodwin is too robotic and rehearsed in his preparations for each game, and is no good in broken water and is therefore easily out-coached on game day when the opposition box starts shifting the pieces eg, round 2 v Carlton.

There’s no excuse for our current ladder position, and also for the look and feel of our performances to date.

We’ve had only one good quarter thus far this year.

I reckon Brett Ratten would’ve been ideal for us.

 

Edited July 9, 20204 yr by Ron Burgundy

Haven’t seen or heard anything about Tom Sparrow for 12 months now, picked for Rd 1 last yr,  was talked up (normal MFC) got injured and hasn’t been sighted since.. can’t be close to selection as we’ve made a dozen changes already and he hasn’t been one of them nor has he been named an emergency.... would like to hear how he’s going. 

5 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

Haven’t seen or heard anything about Tom Sparrow for 12 months now, picked for Rd 1 last yr,  was talked up (normal MFC) got injured and hasn’t been sighted since.. can’t be close to selection as we’ve made a dozen changes already and he hasn’t been one of them nor has he been named an emergency.... would like to hear how he’s going. 

Pre COVID he looked good at training early on. I have been an advocate for him to be introduced to the midfield to keep the incumbents on their toes. Maybe another season and let’s see what he has. 

Same embarrassing problems.

Id be angry but why would we expect anything different.

Keep bombing it in boys. After 100 entries we might wnd up with a shot.

Definetly 

3 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Same embarrassing problems.

Id be angry but why would we expect anything different.

Keep bombing it in boys. After 100 entries we might wnd up with a shot.

Agreed. No structure or strategy. Goody needs to wake up

You obviously cant throw the baby out with the bath wwter there is a season left to play.

But we have to make a call on clangerball.

 

Not only can we not kick this week we are also losing clearence to the worst clearance side in the afl.

Yay Melbourne 

23 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Not only can we not kick this week we are also losing clearence to the worst clearance side in the afl.

Yay Melbourne 

Im surprised every time we hit a target 

Our midfield, our midfield, our midfield...

Word has lost all meaning 

1 hour ago, layzie said:

Our midfield, our midfield, our midfield...

Word has lost all meaning 

Which one our or midfield