Sacked: Brock McLean reveals booze and drug binges

[640MD 3,357]

10 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We so need a jSelwood,  a LHodge,  sMitchell,   these types.

Would be good.   If we had a M. Voss,   or M. Ricciuto,  or even (GHU) a  J.Hird  (as a captain) or as far back as a RDB.  Who could grab a game by the throat and force it to our result by the shear strength of character or resolve of that individual.  They probably made mistakes as well but Max kicking points at different times.........

makes you wonder.  The remainder of the year beckons,  losing game one, puts us in as a back marker.

0-2 in a shorten season,   well shorten probably says it all.  Not acceptable.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

5 minutes ago, dieter said:

The cats took  Grigic and Bailey from us, an over the hill Rivers. As though the demons were the only dumbclucks in the world.....

Your taking offence,  dtr.   Why.?

When it is not sent as an insult, or a put down,  but rather as informative,  for those who wish to try to see that these issues do not continue into our future drafting and recruiting,  and to be on guard against these sorts of culture issues happening over again.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

2 minutes ago, 640MD said:

Would be good.   If we had a M. Voss,   or M. Ricciuto,  or even (GHU) a  J.Hird  (as a captain) or as far back as a RDB.  Who could grab a game by the throat and force it to our result by the shear strength of character or resolve of that individual.  They probably made mistakes as well but Max kicking points at different times.........

makes you wonder.  The remainder of the year beckons,  losing game one, puts us in as a back marker.

0-2 in a shorten season,   well shorten probably says it all.  Not acceptable.

Your being facetious,  or totally missing the point.   And your words are all so short-term thinking.    

My mind is always to the development of the players,  kids  and culture,  for the long-term health of this club.

 

Leadership...  not playing ability, is my point.  True leaders to lead the club and list,  and hold it away from the sort of temptations,  a losing mentality brings us to. 

 

I won't knock back that playing ability of your liking,  but its off field leadership and locker-room leadership we desperately needed in the 90's... leadership away from the club when with the boys.   To keep them straight and narrow.

[dieter 3,325]

27 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Your taking offence,  dtr.   Why.?

When it is not sent as an insult, or a put down,  but rather as informative,  for those who wish to try to see that these issues do not continue into our future drafting and recruiting,  and to be on guard against these sorts of culture issues happening over again.

What I'm getting at is recruiters, like everyone, don't always get it right. You seem fixated on the mistakes made by Melbourne's staff. I read your posts as implying that the kind of weird stuff Brock McLean talks about only happened at Melbourne, because of its stuffed 'culture'. Well, sorry the weird stuff went on everywhere. That Melbourne made recruiting errors is a given, so did all the other teams.In the end, success breeds success. Success also glosses over inherent cracks and problems, witness the reason Hawthorn had to ballast Franklin. Hodge too was borderline as was Chick, many others etc. The tragedy of Bomber Thompson at Geelong and Essendon is a festering can of worms which no-one wants to address. West Coast is a basket case of corpses and lives totally ruined. I could go on. In the meantime, my friend, you make out Melbourne is some kind of lunatic tragedy.  What I'm suggesting is it was/is no worse than other clubs. Cards have been stacked, not many fell our way. Obviously, Melbourne have been in the wilderness since 1964, got close in the Northey, Daniher, Balme days. Melbourne should have made the finals in 1976: only an after the siren kick down at Geelong kept them out. Melbourne looked poised in 2018, by the time they reached Perth they were done and dusted. Poo happens. 

So they appointed Neeld? Bailey, Beckwirth, Jones, Ditterich, the list is endless. Other clubs made similar boo boos.

Nuff said. Go read some Dosteoevesky. Which one, you ask.  Fyodor.

Edited May 16, 2020 by dieter

[Pates 9,660]

I guess to expand on my club culture thoughts, we had with him and quite a number of talented players a lack of ability to develop them into top grade AFL players (I’m sure some would argue that still exists). One of those things to do with development is the ability to make those players make the right choices on and off the fields. I’m not naive to believe that every star or A grader is a perfect person in society but I would also imagine that the majority of them at least got the best out of themselves when they were “cleanest”. 

The WC team with Cousins and co is probably the outlier here but I’d be willing to bet that while Dusty may not have entirely given up his previous lifestyle when he was only a talented player and nothing more, I would imagine he has got a lot more professional in his outside life. 

I also believe that there were people at the tigers that gave him the straight shot to tell him to pull his finger out, don’t forget he shopped himself around and got little interest because of his attitudes. 

My longwinded point is it’s two fold, the player has to want to be better and not go out on a binge, but the club has to also be equipped to be able to pull the best out of them not only as a player but as a human being. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Still can’t believe we got pick 9 for him from Carlton then wasted it on Gysberts.

The silver lining was we ended up with Pedersen but what a waste of a draft pick.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

What I'm getting at is recruiters, like everyone, don't always get it right. You seem fixated on the mistakes made by Melbourne's staff. I read your posts as implying that the kind of weird stuff Brock McLean talks about only happened at Melbourne, because of its stuffed 'culture'. Well, sorry the weird stuff went on everywhere. That Melbourne made recruiting errors is a given, so did all the other teams.In the end, success breeds success. Success also glosses over inherent cracks and problems, witness the reason Hawthorn had to ballast Franklin. Hodge too was borderline as was Chick, many others etc. The tragedy of Bomber Thompson at Geelong and Essendon is a festering can of worms which no-one wants to address. West Coast is a basket case of corpses and lives totally ruined. I could go on. In the meantime, my friend, you make out Melbourne is some kind of lunatic tragedy.  What I'm suggesting is it was/is no worse than other clubs. Cards have been stacked, not many fell our way. Obviously, Melbourne have been in the wilderness since 1964, got close in the Northey, Daniher, Balme days. Melbourne should have made the finals in 1976: only an after the siren kick down at Geelong kept them out. Melbourne looked poised in 2018, by the time they reached Perth they were done and dusted. Poo happens. 

So they appointed Neeld? Bailey, Beckwirth, Jones, Ditterich, the list is endless. Other clubs made similar boo boos.

Nuff said. Go read some Dosteoevesky. Which one, you ask.  Fyodor.

Fixated on trying to give the recipe,  for someone to take and do something with it.

To oversee that these things do not continue,  or to regrow in the club.

Why would i bother,  just to try to hang shytttte on fellow demon people.  I want someone to wake up and make the necessary changes,  so that 50Yrs of the same old recipe can be turfed out,  for the older recipe of Checker, Smith, Barassi/Jordan.

- - - - - - - - - -

Now, Brock.  he's a different cat.  IMO because of his family tree,  they're family culture is an old fashioned Aussie one,  of beer, smokes, and rough'n'tumble. I do not think Brock is into shiny status symbols and living in toorak.  That's one reason I liked him.

So his drug styles,  most likely dope,  and grog.

Others around the club might've preferred to sniff or snort.?

Culture isn't about drugs, its about attitudes, good behaviours, disciplines, beliefs, desires, and values, compounded over and over on themselves for generations. 

 

Drugs/alcohol are a symptom of negative inner thoughts, fears, and the behaviours of these.

Edited May 16, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[Demon trucker 1,800]

3 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Oh,  Please.  dmma.

You don't think big heads,  partying and thinking they're better than they really are,  is a sick culture.  Drugs as well.  They say 'tings go better with Coke'.

When list leaders start to enjoy themselves a little too much,  the output drops off.

We had one of the best lists Mid 90's.  with Lyon,  Jakovich,  etc leaders of that pack.

Did you know there was a culture problem with the Footy Show in the 90's...  I'd hate to think that spread to our boys.

All footballer where partying hard in the 90's, north Melbourne had the biggest party culture, Carey would be drinking from Friday night after Friday night footy to Sunday night, different times, no social media, your like the sheep who thinks winning means having a good culture, which is a total bull[censored], there are only 2 types of culture a winning one and a losing one.

[rjay 24,878]

3 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Why do you think we got Moloney as a trade for our pick to be used on bOttens.  Why did the Cats suggest/offer him to us.  He was expendable for them.  And we didn't know better.  Says plenty about our recruiting-team spotters.  Because he wasn't the smartest tool in the footy worlds shed. 

They wanted him out,  and it was a win win for them.   They got Ottens from the Tiges for two picks, and the Tiges picked.?

 

Whilst not a great Molony fan I think the reason they put him up for trade is they had plenty of his type of player.

They needed Ottens, as they do again need an Ottens type.

I don't think it had anything to do with wanting Moloney out.

[Macca 16,922]

All things happen for a reason ... McLean bleating about the tanking ultimately served a decent purpose.

We were completely stagnant and going even further backwards in 2012/13 and the massive changes that happened once PJ arrived might not have happened unless we reached rock-bottom.  The investigation saw to that. 

And massive change often only happens when the proverbial hits the fan (big time)

But we're still behind a number of clubs with regards to professionalism & having a ruthless winning culture (IMO)

The answer is to have top people filling the 6 Pillars required ... Pres,  Footy Manager,  Coach,  Captain,  CEO & Chief Recruiter.

A top list of players therefore follows as a matter of course.

And then you win (hopefully,  win big)

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

39 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

All footballer where partying hard in the 90's, north Melbourne had the biggest party culture, Carey would be drinking from Friday night after Friday night footy to Sunday night, different times, no social media, your like the sheep who thinks winning means having a good culture, which is a total bull[censored], there are only 2 types of culture a winning one and a losing one.

Culture isn't drugs,  its a whole bundle of ideas, values beliefs, disciplines, creativeness, forming communal standards.

Other clubs were drinking since the 50's maybe earlier.

 

So, what is it that's different, from them to us.  When they win,  and we lose?

They are aggressive.......... We are conservatives, and inhibited in decision making

They are not afraid of public perceptions......We are always embarrassed at the slightest

They are fulfilled living the life they want....... we are always guilty for not keeping our morals

 

They are Positive     ......................    We are Negative.

 

I think this is what we lost when Smithy was unceremoniously sanctioned from our colours,  and Barass took his Melbourne MoJo to Carlton,  with him.

 

What were we left with,  from all that...  MfcSS__

.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

26 minutes ago, Macca said:

The answer is to have top people filling the 6 Pillars required ... Pres,  Footy Manager,  Coach,  Captain,  CEO & Chief Recruiter.

Your right, obviously.

Except,  not just top people...   but top footy smart people.   The whole gist of all my arguments/rants/pleas/concepts is all about this thing.

Our failed Boards were all top people of their own fields,  but I fully believe we didn't have top footy brains running the show.   Top business savvy on it's own,  just won't cut the mustard. 

We have to have top business acumen with top footy smarts as well in the same people.  Footy-smart  Pres, CEO, all directors,  and obviously from there on down thru the Footy Dept.

 

We just haven't had the footy brains right at the top (board level) for anywhere near long enough,  over the past Half Century.  maybe we had smart cricket people instead.?

 

Time to take the boardroom back into footy peoples hands outside the 'G'.

 

Build the ruddy Home Base.

[Macca 16,922]

2 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Your right, obviously.

Except,  not just top people...   but top footy smart people.   The whole gist of all my arguments/rants/pleas/concepts is all about this thing.

Our failed Boards were all top people of their own fields,  but I fully believe we didn't have top footy brains running the show.   Top business savvy on it's own,  just won't cut the mustard. 

We have to have top business acumen with top footy smarts as well in the same people.  Footy-smart  Pres, CEO, all directors,  and obviously from there on down thru the Footy Dept.

 

We just haven't had the footy brains right at the top (board level) for anywhere near long enough,  over the past Half Century.  maybe we had smart cricket people instead.?

 

Time to take the boardroom back into footy peoples hands outside the 'G'.

 

Build the ruddy Home Base.

Boards are often full of well-to-do-people who have nearly always done very well for themselves in the private sector or in public life.

But they need to work well as a collective providing they know what their objective is and whether they have a chance of achieving that objective. 

As others have pointed out,  we've often fallen short at board level but so have a number of other clubs (periodically)

The 6 Pillars that are needed for our club emanate from the board ... and right now,  if we were to grade our 6 pillars then it's hard to mark any one of those pillar's higher than 6.5 out of 10.  And they are all around that mark.  We're a bit beige.

Maybe Gawn can go to an 8 and lift the others? He's just starting out but we need some strong leadership but that leadership has to be right across the board (so to speak)

The home base arrives as a consequence.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Macca

[640MD 3,357]

11 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Your being facetious,  or totally missing the point.   And your words are all so short-term thinking.    

My mind is always to the development of the players,  kids  and culture,  for the long-term health of this club.

 

Leadership...  not playing ability, is my point.  True leaders to lead the club and list,  and hold it away from the sort of temptations,  a losing mentality brings us to. 

 

I won't knock back that playing ability of your liking,  but its off field leadership and locker-room leadership we desperately needed in the 90's... leadership away from the club when with the boys.   To keep them straight and narrow.

I take your point,   It all starts at the top, and not just on the field.   But it is on the field that we as supporters mostly see.  But when Jackson and Roos were in charge I thought it was going well.   i have read all the other posts, its a great discussion and we are all going basically in the same direction,   Top business men without football brains or real interest in football just keep the bottom line above water,  thats needed but you need more as you suggest,

"We have to have top business acumen with top footy smarts as well in the same people.  Footy-smart  Pres, CEO, all directors,  and obviously from there on down thru the Footy Dept.We just haven't had the footy brains right at the top (board level) for anywhere near long enough,  over the past Half Century." 

 

Its been too long since a flag and I am not sure I personally have much long term planning left,   I personally need football to be simple and play to win each game.  

Like this thread,   and I liked Brock as a player,  blue collar   but too slow and now we can see why, what a pity.

 

Go Dees 

[Demonland 71,586]

You can listen to the podcast here:

[Moonshadow 17,675]

9 hours ago, Macca said:

All things happen for a reason ... McLean bleating about the tanking ultimately served a decent purpose.

We were completely stagnant and going even further backwards in 2012/13 and the massive changes that happened once PJ arrived might not have happened unless we reached rock-bottom.  The investigation saw to that. 

And massive change often only happens when the proverbial hits the fan (big time)

But we're still behind a number of clubs with regards to professionalism & having a ruthless winning culture (IMO)

The answer is to have top people filling the 6 Pillars required ... Pres,  Footy Manager,  Coach,  Captain,  CEO & Chief Recruiter.

A top list of players therefore follows as a matter of course.

And then you win (hopefully,  win big)

I'd say there are 7 pillars, and add fitness boss to your list. Burgo needs to be an important key to our success

[Macca 16,922]

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I'd say there are 7 pillars, and add fitness boss to your list. Burgo needs to be an important key to our success

Yes,  you are right

And I believe the club used a fitness advisor during the Smith era ... someone from Europe that was over here for the '56 games (?)

Jim Cardwell was the ace recruiter with Ivor Warne-Smith as Norm's right hand man (a GM of sorts)

So not much has changed in terms of the Pillars.  Amateur to pro era being a major factor though.

[whatwhat say what 22,696]

we didn't get moloney for ottens

we got him, effectively, for that traitorous so-and-so scott thompson

[layzie 33,752]

One of the more strange and weird articles I've seen recently. Firstly I'm sorry to hear about his struggle and hopefully he's finally on the up. No-one deserves to feel worthless.

Things have never quite added up when it came to Brock and his football career. Great in and under on baller, good vision to make up for his lack of pace. Was part of the future identity of our club going forward and putting 10k of his own money to our cause led by Jimmy highlighted his then love for the club. He then leaves, urinates on his former club on live tv and then goes on a trail of erratic behavoir attacking trolls on Twitter and losing the plot in games. After he left Melbourne I never heard him say a nice thing about the club again. Not saying he didn't have good reason to but it's very sad when this wasn't just any MFC player. 

In 2016 I was coming back from Bright after the annual Brighter Days festival and saw him at the Euroa servo with a crew of biker types, probsbly means nothing but it does explain a bit about the company he was keeping around the time of his lowest of lows. 

Don't have much else to say about it really, just these observations. The photo was disturbing. Nothing wrong with his image but when paired with this article it wreaks of identity crisis. 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

6 hours ago, 640MD said:

I take your point,   It all starts at the top, and not just on the field.   But it is on the field that we as supporters mostly see.

Yes.  But this is the main part,  of the point, and the home base.

The majority of us supporters do not know the directors personally, who are up for election.  So we have no idea of what their skills are,  and how footy smart or dumb they are.

 

I think this is a major dislocation in our becoming a winning club.  It allows for boys clubs, mates clubs,  and too much hob knobbing, and elbow rubbing wannabe's to join for their own ends.

 

We need people interested in only Mfc, and not the Mcc,  or to make acquaintance with top business people.  That can happen as a consequence,  but shouldn't be the prime focus of potential directors.

So we must get our board & meetings,  out of the 'G'.

[Cranky Franky 2,031]

2 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

we didn't get moloney for ottens

we got him, effectively, for that traitorous so-and-so scott thompson

 

There are 2 points here that posters regularly get wrong & have now gone into folklore

1.  Scott Thompson stated that he would stay at Melbourne if a reasonable deal could not get done with Adelaide.  We could have kept him.  Daniher however figured that if the player wanted to leave he would not stand in his way.

2.  Geelong were desperate to get Ottens & Melbourne had their pick of half a dozen players & we chose Moloney. 

 

[whatwhat say what 22,696]

8 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

There are 2 points here that posters regularly get wrong & have now gone into folklore

1.  Scott Thompson stated that he would stay at Melbourne if a reasonable deal could not get done with Adelaide.  We could have kept him.  Daniher however figured that if the player wanted to leave he would not stand in his way.

2.  Geelong were desperate to get Ottens & Melbourne had their pick of half a dozen players & we chose Moloney. 

 

really? my word, from someone very close to the family, was that thompson was always going home to adelaide at the end of that year - his preference was the pear, but they couldn't get the deal done

he was a fab player - i was ropeable when he left and watching him play 300+ games across the course of his career with the cows vexed me no end

Edited May 17, 2020 by whatwhatsaywhat

[poita 3,889]

The criticism of McLean regarding the tanking issue is just absurd. Similar to the Tayla Harris "useless" fiasco, I don't know why we assume that everyone who has a camera stuck in their face is going to eloquently respond to whatever question is thrown at them. They are not media professionals, they are sportspeople.

I don't believe Brock set out to dump the club in the [censored], but clearly he had lingering resentment around his time there, which came out under pressure. Fair enough too - it was bad enough to watch our performances in that time, let alone be part of it. Thankfully that was one of the catalysts to bring in the likes of Roos and Jackson who started to bring us back towards being relevant again.

The way Brock squandered his talent and ultimately his career was a major disappointment, and something that will stay with him for a long time. I rate him as arguably the biggest talent alongside Jones and Thompson that we drafted in that decade, but clearly he didn't have  the commitment of the other two. I hope he can continue to bring his issues under control and make something of his life outside football.

As an aside, who would people rather we drafted than Sylvia and McLean out of that appalling draft crop? Other than Cooney who probably came with his own set of issues, only David Mundy at 19 could be considered an elite player from the top 20.

[deegirl 1,576]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:55 PM, don't make me angry said:

You are so off the mark, during 1987 to 2006, the club had strong leadership and culture, Lyon, Viney, neta, all great captain,  every club has their ups and downs, Melbourne's s long  failure between 2007 to 2018, has over shadowed pre 2006.

Melbourne's list was cut to hard after 2007 getting rid of too many leaders and left it with too many inexperienced players, the Hawks set the model on how to build a great club through tanking, they where under the easiest tanking draft model, being able to get a pp every year for 4 years, when it was the demons trun the rules had been tighten, so much that the benefits of trying to win games outweighed the benefits of tanking.

The Lyon Mafia (Connelly, Stynes, Schwab etc) hand an enormous impact on the playing and the administration culture.  Selfish, cliquey and insular. Deciding their own training schedules and generally acting like arrogant jerks. Didn't matter so much when Lyon was leading a talented list who were final contenders.

But it came back to bite us again in the 2010s when they got involved in club admin.  What kind of a club sacks a CEO only to re-hire him?  A club that is under the influence of a clique.  Lyon was arrogant enough to meddle but not commit, Connelly & Schwab a disgrace and though it's sacrilege to say it...Stynes under their sway and not willing to back the coach.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

On 5/16/2020 at 6:45 PM, Mazer Rackham said:

Dale Lewis. The AFL led the lynching. Don't turn over rocks if you don't want to know what's underneath. Demetriou's personal motto.

 

To be fair Demetriou wasn't interested in turning over the Melbourne tanking rock either.
Mclean shot his mouth off and thenthe  media got selective amnesia and relentlessly ran with it till they got what they wanted.