On 19/11/2019 at 22:19, Damo said:

In defence of OMac critics we had to wait a year to hear from the club about the amount and seriousness of surgeries last year.

 

Respectfully, thats not true Damo. They advised he had hip surgery before the season and again when he had a mid season break to build his strength.

On the surgery he was often left of lists on here and in the media of players who had surgery - perhaps reflecting his standing. And I certainly reminded dl posters of those surgeries often enough.

I’d be amazed if someone didn’t ask “why don’t we just kick it more?” Like the majority of peanuts say every week in the MCC.

  On 19/11/2019 at 22:27, Beetle said:

I’d be amazed if someone didn’t ask “why don’t we just kick it more?” Like the majority of peanuts say every week in the MCC.

One question asked why we have only 5 good kicks on the list and included Hibberd in the set!

Despite the on-line videos lacking the slides, kudos to the club for getting them up and distibuted so quickly, not that that is so hard.  But it  looks like the PR department is getting better so hopefully we'll have less groaning abotu them in future.

Re the criticism of Goodwin for playing players out of their natural postiion, it seems to me that is what you do when you are heavily hit with injuries.  If as is likely it doesn't work, then blame the coach.  If it unearths a new superstar, the coach is a genius.   (BTW I have no opinion of Goodwin's ability one way or the other.)

  On 19/11/2019 at 22:26, binman said:

Respectfully, thats not true Damo. They advised he had hip surgery before the season and again when he had a mid season break to build his strength.

On the surgery he was often left of lists on here and in the media of players who had surgery - perhaps reflecting his standing. And I certainly reminded dl posters of those surgeries often enough.

Fair enough Ian

I do wonder if what was said "Live" may have been worse than what was ranted on DL during this year, in what would have been a larger audience.

  On 19/11/2019 at 22:37, Fifty-5 said:

One question asked why we have only 5 good kicks on the list and included Hibberd in the set!

That is a very good question.

  On 19/11/2019 at 20:06, Rusty Nails said:

Thanks minion.

So Clarry, who only completed approx 23% of his programmed pre-season vs Gus for example at 43% , still managed to win the Bluey.

Another great example, Viney, who only managed 11% but still managed a reasonable contribution throughout the season.

Proving that set backs can be overcome and a fair portion of recovering from them is above the shoulders as Lewis alluded to in his exit interview.

I also notice the emphasis on "Roles in which player's STRENGTHS can thrive".

In other words don't play guys in positions they aren't so good at (or have very little experience with) or just not suited to, wherever possible.  Way too much experimenting here by Goody this season which, along with the lack of cohesion and consistency on the training track and alot of man power out through injury, also added to the mayhem and the overall mega fall from 2018.

Sometimes it can depend on the type of injury though and the players role. Gus has a back injury which while he still managed to play 22 might have meant he was much more restricted than Oliver with his shoulders. An injury set back can effect you're whole body sometimes and others it only impacts 1 area, so running/strength work might still be possible. Hopefully with no set backs this year Gus returns to his 2018 best, but backs are hard to manage. 

On Greg Stafford being the goal kicking coach:

1. As a player, he had a conversion rate in the ballpark of those of Lockett and Lloyd, and a superior conversion rate to Richardson, Dunstall and Franklin. And we're talking about a guy who played 204 AFL games for 141 goals, including 5 hauls of 4 goals (4.1, 4.0, 4.0, 4.1 and 4.2) playing as a ruckman - we're not talking about a 5 game wonder. 
2. He is a professional coach that has been kicking around for years, who has had Max Gawn under his wing forever. He obviously knows how to coach.

If anyone still wants to challenge his credentials as a goal kicking coach, I'm interested to know why.

  On 19/11/2019 at 21:31, binman said:

Yep. My post was supposed to follow on from your quote. Understandable that it could have been misread.

No Worries, I had only been out off bed a short time and not fully focused.

  On 19/11/2019 at 22:02, binman said:

I am sure we will see plenty of omac this year. And barring injury to him expect him to play most games. He is important to our structure. Will take an opposition big freeing up may and lever to be more aggressive and play ood their men. And his reliable kicking will be important. Would not be surprised to see him take a fair share of kick outs.

Had to laugh when I read who made the omac comments - an 'Ian' apparently. Funny because my name is Ian. I promise it wasn't me. Unless I've gone rogue.

On a serious note it is great that people at the forum and on here rightfully derided Ian's borish comments made in a public forum. Id love it if posters on dl considered this site a public forum and applied the same standard of respectful criticism and comment.

On the number of games omac plays happy to take bets, with choice of avatar the stake. Which if I win will be a picture of omac. I'm 2 for 2 on such bets (Hi prodee and Dr d) so betting with the bank's money. So to speak.

Maybe Ian can put his money where his mouth is.

 

I sometimes find myself shaking my head at posts and scroll back up to see who wrote them. Sometimes it’s Dr D and I always think how perfectly fitting the Neely avartar was?

Thanks to all those who reported on the evening 

Terrific reading!!!!!

  On 19/11/2019 at 23:21, Nasher said:

On Greg Stafford being the goal kicking coach:

1. As a player, he had a conversion rate in the ballpark of those of Lockett and Lloyd, and a superior conversion rate to Richardson, Dunstall and Franklin. And we're talking about a guy who played 204 AFL games for 141 goals, including 5 hauls of 4 goals (4.1, 4.0, 4.0, 4.1 and 4.2) playing as a ruckman - we're not talking about a 5 game wonder. 
2. He is a professional coach that has been kicking around for years, who has had Max Gawn under his wing forever. He obviously knows how to coach.

If anyone still wants to challenge his credentials as a goal kicking coach, I'm interested to know why.

Thanks Nasher.

I'll put my hand up and say I wasn't aware of his goal kicking prowess so no problems now with him in that role.

With Lewis also as a kicking coach the club has clearly identified our kicking skills as a much needed area to invest in. 

Those two appointments should go a long way to improve significant problems that bring our game plan undone:  1) turnovers around the ground and i50; and 2) goal kicking accuracy

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 19/11/2019 at 21:41, Fifty-5 said:

I'm a renowned happy clapper so the informative midfield pre season graph is preaching to the converted.

It was interesting when Lamb was addressing the Frost trade he reeled off backline players but didn't mention Petty. Later on Goodwin said one experiments from the 2nd half of the season that worked and we'll  persist with is Petty forward.

Ironically for the first questioner that means we'll see plenty of OMac back in 2020.  @binman fortify your defences and sharpen your spears.

Also interesting was Jones small forward and Smith back.

 

  On 19/11/2019 at 23:43, Clint Bizkit said:

 

I like it, Jones is either midfield depth or defensive forward IMO.  He can't play other roles e.g. wing or defence.

According to Goodwin he has come back in best shape this year.  I'd prefer Jones to ANB.

While it’s been 55 years since we tasted ultimate success, at least the club has a plan and isn’t taking knee jerk reactions to this years poor results!

The number of AFL players when asked why they had such good seasons often attribute it to having a complete pre-season. Little wonder our year was poor, with many last quarter fade outs, when you look at limited pre season of our midfield, then injuries we kept getting during the year, add lost confidence and it all led to a poor year, only 5 wins was due to throwing away a few games, Crows loss immediately comes to mind.
As with a few others comments, being caught by the 666 impact, doesn’t look so good, but KK and VDB not making it due to injury didn’t help! It highlighted needs for specialist wingers and the game became more about running both ways than ever, lack of preseasons for many of our midfield players just accentuated the problem.

Going into 2020, hopefully with good pre seasons behind the majority of the team, some good positional drafting and a better draw, should lead to a huge improvement in 2020!

It will be really interesting to see how Viney goes after a full pre season, boy did a lot of supporters unfairly tip a bucket on him last year! I think back to a few games he dragged us to wins in 2017/2018 games, finals in 18, that away game against WC, off one leg against Port, At his best a beast!

2019 was crap, but the club is holding the course, and let’s hope it pays off with a flag or two in the next 4-5 years! Panicking and throwing all the toys out of the pram doesn’t work, Richmond - Hardwick and Collingwood - Buckley just highlight the point.

 

 

 

  On 19/11/2019 at 11:58, pitmaster said:

I also liked Goodwin's response to the Plan B question which might raise a few eyebrows here: "There are not too many clubs with a Plan B: you get Plan A right you are a successful club" (Not an absolutely direct quote. I missed a few words there but that's the gist.)

 

I find this really intriguing. In 2018 I thought the team had really come of age as a future contender when particularly in the round 22 Eagles game they started slowing up the ball movement and hitting shorter targets in order to break opposition team's momentum rather than the Plan A which was to play on at all costs. I was at a lunch with McCartney at the end of the 2018 season and he explained that they learnt from that terrible Cats loss that sometimes they had to change from playing on at all costs to being more patient with the ball if the momentum of the game required it. 

To me that's a Plan B and you see the really good teams like Hawks at their best a few years ago doing this. So baffled why Goodwin would say that about Plan B's. I guess it's semantics. He doesn't call it Plan B he calls it something else. 

Thanks for the slide pics dom

The highest number of games missed in AFL history. Combine that  fact with the pre season from hell  and you get one woeful season.

And still some compare our situation to the pies and tigers.

  On 20/11/2019 at 00:26, It's Time said:

I find this really intriguing. In 2018 I thought the team had really come of age as a future contender when particularly in the round 22 Eagles game they started slowing up the ball movement and hitting shorter targets in order to break opposition team's momentum rather than the Plan A which was to play on at all costs. I was at a lunch with McCartney at the end of the 2018 season and he explained that they learnt from that terrible Cats loss that sometimes they had to change from playing on at all costs to being more patient with the ball if the momentum of the game required it. 

To me that's a Plan B and you see the really good teams like Hawks at their best a few years ago doing this. So baffled why Goodwin would say that about Plan B's. I guess it's semantics. He doesn't call it Plan B he calls it something else. 

Possibly because slowing things down for a few minutes is not really much of a Plan.   I assume Plan A is the club's basic game plan.  A real Plan B would be an entirely different game plan which I doubt any team could implement on the fly.  So it seems to me that Plan B's can't amount to much more than slow things down, move player X into defence or onto opponent Y etc.  Doubtless every team has a list of the latter sort of moves ready to implement during a game, either on paper or in the coaches' heads.

  If anyone believes there can be 2 substantive plans, I would be interesting to see a list of such A & B plans for every club. I'd be surprised if it could be produced.

  On 20/11/2019 at 00:45, sue said:

Possibly because slowing things down for a few minutes is not really much of a Plan.   

I agree. What Macca was describing sounds to me like tempo footy, which is super important when you want to arrest the momentum an opposition team might have. Slow things down, deny the opposition the ball and stop going all out attack.

Funnily enough i think we will need to do that more often during the regular season as doing so takes the heat from the game and would help us get to the finals still fresh.

  On 20/11/2019 at 00:44, binman said:

Thanks for the slide pics dom

The highest number of games missed in AFL history. Combine that  fact with the pre season from hell  and you get one woeful season.

And still some compare our situation to the pies and tigers.

You have to wonder how many blokes were injured going into the WC game...

One of the best statements was made by an old guy who has seen MFC during the glory days.  He said he was in awe of supporters who had not seen MFC win a flag.  I am one of those and in awe of myself. ???

  On 20/11/2019 at 00:55, The Stigga said:

You have to wonder how many blokes were injured going into the WC game...

Who knows, but no doubt we were totally cooked.

  On 20/11/2019 at 01:02, binman said:

Who knows, but no doubt we were totally cooked.

I don't buy it.

You don't win two finals and then just become totally cooked. 

There were multiple factors as to why we lost that game in the manner we did.

Being cooked was one of many.

  On 20/11/2019 at 00:09, Fifty-5 said:

I like it, Jones is either midfield depth or defensive forward IMO.  He can't play other roles e.g. wing or defence.

According to Goodwin he has come back in best shape this year.  I'd prefer Jones to ANB.

Plus he's a natural goal kicker.

  On 19/11/2019 at 23:11, Red and Blue realist said:

Sometimes it can depend on the type of injury though and the players role. Gus has a back injury which while he still managed to play 22 might have meant he was much more restricted than Oliver with his shoulders. An injury set back can effect you're whole body sometimes and others it only impacts 1 area, so running/strength work might still be possible. Hopefully with no set backs this year Gus returns to his 2018 best, but backs are hard to manage. 

Very true R&B.  There is much detail we miss in the outer.  What's the old saying ..."little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

I forget that one myself sometimes.