Captaincy 2020

[Damo 3,466]

Im not sure how many posters you are aiming at Moonie. But List managers talk to journos and each other.

One of those lords got 12 out of 15 on a thread that had asked for it. What are the odds?

 

[Moonshadow 17,678]

6 minutes ago, Damo said:

Im not sure how many posters you are aiming at Moonie. But List managers talk to journos and each other.

One of those lords got 12 out of 15 on a thread that had asked for it. What are the odds?

 

Last post on this from me.

His previous prediction was 100% incorrect. What are the odds, eh? Drafts are generally predictable to those who take an interest by the week before. 

I have no doubt that list managers talk to journos. I also have no doubt that a so-called anonymous source on a fan forum does not define us as any more leaky than the Roos era. Claiming otherwise is just shitstirring.

Over and out

 

[Slartibartfast 18,125]

30 minutes ago, Damo said:

Im not sure how many posters you are aiming at Moonie. But List managers talk to journos and each other.

One of those lords got 12 out of 15 on a thread that had asked for it. What are the odds?

 

Damo I don't know and to be honest I don't care.  Draft and trade speculation is fun. 

Here is Trav's speculation, posted 27th November:

GC - Rowell (confirmed)
GC - Anderson (confirmed)
Melb - Jackson (confirmed)
GWS - Ash
Syd - Flanders
Ade - McAsey
Freo - Young (confirmed)
Freo - Serong (confirmed)
Freo - Henry (match Carltons bid)
Carl - Stephens
Melb - Pickett
Haw - Kemp
Port - Berman
Dogs - Weightman

 

Compare with Cal's predictions which were made before Trav's made on 25th.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/149384/cal-twomeys-2019-phantom-draft-top-30-your-clubs-whispers

What are the odds? Not long, but who cares?

[Damo 3,466]

And somewhere else it was revealed that Jackson would be ours at pick 3. From a well known journo. November 13. It is fun but it isnt tight.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Damo

[Ethan Tremblay 31,393]

41 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Damo I don't know and to be honest I don't care.  Draft and trade speculation is fun. 

Here is Trav's speculation, posted 27th November:

GC - Rowell (confirmed)
GC - Anderson (confirmed)
Melb - Jackson (confirmed)
GWS - Ash
Syd - Flanders
Ade - McAsey
Freo - Young (confirmed)
Freo - Serong (confirmed)
Freo - Henry (match Carltons bid)
Carl - Stephens
Melb - Pickett
Haw - Kemp
Port - Berman
Dogs - Weightman

 

Compare with Cal's predictions which were made before Trav's made on 25th.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/149384/cal-twomeys-2019-phantom-draft-top-30-your-clubs-whispers

What are the odds? Not long, but who cares?

Boy oh boy wow wee, Lord Travis is Cal Twomey. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

8 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Damo I don't know and to be honest I don't care.  Draft and trade speculation is fun. 

Here is Trav's speculation, posted 27th November:

GC - Rowell (confirmed)
GC - Anderson (confirmed)
Melb - Jackson (confirmed)
GWS - Ash
Syd - Flanders
Ade - McAsey
Freo - Young (confirmed)
Freo - Serong (confirmed)
Freo - Henry (match Carltons bid)
Carl - Stephens
Melb - Pickett
Haw - Kemp
Port - Berman
Dogs - Weightman

 

Compare with Cal's predictions which were made before Trav's made on 25th.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/149384/cal-twomeys-2019-phantom-draft-top-30-your-clubs-whispers

What are the odds? Not long, but who cares?

So what you're saying is he may have copied some of a journos info, or he may have heard the same things that a journo did?

If the info is correct then it's a pretty decent chance different people will hear the same thing.

 

[D4Life 2,584]

I think this thread is about the MFC Captain!

Cotchin of the Tigers is now the poster boy for captains, but I can remember during 2016 and midway through 2017 he was hammered for not being a real leader, then miraculously he becomes a great captain!

Viney showed great leadership in the 2018 final wins and I can recall a number of other games where he has shown exceptional leadership to drive the team onto wins. It will be great to see him play after a full pre season, rather than going in unprepared and carrying significant injuries. Judge him at the end of hopefully an injury free 2020!

Max strikes me as a different kind of leader, but I’m sure if he becomes captain or co-captain, will lead by example and having another terrific season.

Jones disappointed me as a leader for one key reason, have hardly see him chase a player over the last two years, maybe it was due to injury, but as a problem MFC has had over a number of years as a team, that really disappointed. I know it’s simplistic but I think of a root cause for one of our problems.

The other leadership we lack showed up against Port in the first game last year, with Max being attacked the whole game and getting no support! Also happened in 2018 prelim against the Eagles! I think this is where the likes of May, Lever, and Vandenburgh were really missed in 2019, not sure if Viney played that game, but at some point you need to stand together! Hopefully we show this leadership across the ground in 2020!

In my view this is one of the reasons we lose to Collingwood so often, they look like they believe they can just push us around!! So standing up and being counted is what I’m looking for from all our players. Richie Vandenburgh led the Hawks to change their mentality particularly against the Bombers, to go from victims to the aggressors! Then onto Being a great team.
 

Leadership starts at the top, but it’s up to all the players to step up.

Go Demons in 2020!

[Sir Why You Little 37,478]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

I think this thread is about the MFC Captain!

Cotchin of the Tigers is now the poster boy for captains, but I can remember during 2016 and midway through 2017 he was hammered for not being a real leader, then miraculously he becomes a great captain!

Viney showed great leadership in the 2018 final wins and I can recall a number of other games where he has shown exceptional leadership to drive the team onto wins. It will be great to see him play after a full pre season, rather than going in unprepared and carrying significant injuries. Judge him at the end of hopefully an injury free 2020!

Max strikes me as a different kind of leader, but I’m sure if he becomes captain or co-captain, will lead by example and having another terrific season.

Jones disappointed me as a leader for one key reason, have hardly see him chase a player over the last two years, maybe it was due to injury, but as a problem MFC has had over a number of years as a team, that really disappointed. I know it’s simplistic but I think of a root cause for one of our problems.

The other leadership we lack showed up against Port in the first game last year, with Max being attacked the whole game and getting no support! Also happened in 2018 prelim against the Eagles! I think this is where the likes of May, Lever, and Vandenburgh were really missed in 2019, not sure if Viney played that game, but at some point you need to stand together! Hopefully we show this leadership across the ground in 2020!

In my view this is one of the reasons we lose to Collingwood so often, they look like they believe they can just push us around!! So standing up and being counted is what I’m looking for from all our players. Richie Vandenburgh led the Hawks to change their mentality particularly against the Bombers, to go from victims to the aggressors! Then onto Being a great team.
 

Leadership starts at the top, but it’s up to all the players to step up.

Go Demons in 2020!

Some good points in there D4L

Leadership deficiencies always show up when serious pressure is applied. A long term problem at the MFC

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,137]

On 12/14/2019 at 12:00 PM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i don't understand the denigrating of viney at all

for me it's either jack solo otherwise it's jack and max as half-skips

there's a LOT that goes into being captain these days beyond what we see on field

 

On 12/14/2019 at 1:17 PM, deebug said:

A few years ago, i had Sen and Josh mahoney was speaking about Jack, this was before he was captain.

Mahoney said Jack would sit down with all the first year players, such as Clyaton Oliver, from the previous match.

Mahoney said it was all Jacks idea, and that he was told to do it from the coaches, Mahoney said he was blown away, by what Jack was doing. He also said at all the clubs he has been to he had never seen such leader ship skills.

I love big Maxy as well so would be happy with both being captians.

Every year we see posters assessing captaincy potential by onfield performance. I've always believed captaincy is much, much more than that. The above two posts stand out because they address the broader responsibilities and expectations. And because I don't know everything (or, in fact, anything) that goes on behind the scenes, I have no idea who is best qualified to be captain. I am, however, (and perhaps inconsistently with the rest of this post) a fervent believer in a sole captain.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

On 12/14/2019 at 1:17 PM, deebug said:

A few years ago, i had Sen and Josh mahoney was speaking about Jack, this was before he was captain.

Mahoney said Jack would sit down with all the first year players, such as Clyaton Oliver, from the previous match.

Mahoney said it was all Jacks idea, and that he was told to do it from the coaches, Mahoney said he was blown away, by what Jack was doing. He also said at all the clubs he has been to he had never seen such leader ship skills.

I love big Maxy as well so would be happy with both being captians.

Personally I'd prefer more experienced players instructing our first year players, rather than a 21 year old with less than 50 games under his belt. I'm potentially the odd one out here, but i think it's actually poor leadership to try and instruct others when you haven't fully made it yourself yet. As a member of the leadership group he should have brought it up with them and had more seasoned leaders take the sessions, rather than try to do it all himself. And we wonder why our midfield has such deplorable delivery forward.

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Personally I'd prefer more experienced players instructing our first year players, rather than a 21 year old with less than 50 games under his belt. I'm potentially the odd one out here, but i think it's actually poor leadership to try and instruct others when you haven't fully made it yourself yet. As a member of the leadership group he should have brought it up with them and had more seasoned leaders take the sessions, rather than try to do it all himself. And we wonder why our midfield has such deplorable delivery forward.

Maybe our leaders of a few years ago were a bit sh i t/too young/had never been shown what makes a good captain or leader and that kind of thing was a little bit above them?

Edited December 30, 2019 by Cards13

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Cards13 said:

Maybe our leaders of a few years ago were a bit sh i t/too young/had never been shown what makes a good captain or leader and that kind of thing was a little bit above them?

Fair point. We did have a few young ones that year with Gawn coming in and TMac, but we also had Vince, Garland and Jones, who while not being in the conversation as all time great leaders; they surely could have taken on the instructional sessions rather than have a kid teaching kids.

[McQueen 17,867]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Fair point. We did have a few young ones that year with Gawn coming in and TMac, but we also had Vince, Garland and Jones, who while not being in the conversation as all time great leaders; they surely could have taken on the instructional sessions rather than have a kid teaching kids.

You’re basing your opinion off a couple of skerricks of information. 
Viney would not have got this far in his leadership journey had it not been for the team and coaches promoting him with good reason. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

11 minutes ago, McQueen said:

You’re basing your opinion off a couple of skerricks of information. 
Viney would not have got this far in his leadership journey had it not been for the team and coaches promoting him with good reason. 

I'm failing to see what that has to do with the point I was making about the fact that in 2016 we had a kid, with less than 50 games to his name, leading review sessions of first year players. I didn't say he was a poor leader, I said that that particular point raises an issue which I believe still exists with his leadership; which is trying to do it all himself.

I disagree it's "skerricks" of information, the information is pretty clear. The year was 2016, Viney was 21 and had 49 games to his name when that season started. It was his first year in the leadership group. We had more senior and experienced leaders at the time. All straight ahead I would have thought.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

On 12/12/2019 at 2:29 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

Whoever was Captain in 2019 should be replaced. 
Whatever duties they performed failed. That is the reality. 
2018 is a long time ago now...

Conceptually ludicrous to lump the team's performance on the shoulders of the captain/s without any evidence to support. Poor Neita would have been dumped every second year!

[Sir Why You Little 37,478]

11 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Conceptually ludicrous to lump the team's performance on the shoulders of the captain/s without any evidence to support. Poor Neita would have been dumped every second year!

I consider ludicrous doing the same thing over and over, when it hasn’t worked...

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,137]

47 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I consider ludicrous doing the same thing over and over, when it hasn’t worked...

We haven't won a Premiership in 55 years. Which "things" over and over that we've done since 1964 would you want to stop doing because they haven't worked? Changing coaches every few years? Changing the playing personnel? Changing the Board?

 

 

 

[640MD 3,570]

12 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Conceptually ludicrous to lump the team's performance on the shoulders of the captain/s without any evidence to support. Poor Neita would have been dumped every second year!

And perhaps he should have been,  not sure he would have had a position in any other club back then. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,478]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

We haven't won a Premiership in 55 years. Which "things" over and over that we've done since 1964 would you want to stop doing because they haven't worked? Changing coaches every few years? Changing the playing personnel? Changing the Board?

 

 

 

We allowed ourselves to slowly become irrelevant once the game was on Television in 1965. That was the big one

Other problems stemmed from there. 
Gutnick made some very bad judgements and wouldn’t listen to anyone’s advice

Sheedy should have been given the Coaching job after the Rev. 

there are a few examples i can give you on short notice

[old55 23,864]

5 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We allowed ourselves to slowly become irrelevant once the game was on Television in 1965. That was the big one

Other problems stemmed from there. 
Gutnick made some very bad judgements and wouldn’t listen to anyone’s advice

Sheedy should have been given the Coaching job after the Rev. 

there are a few examples i can give you on short notice

None of those things are "the same things over and over".  They are all different things.

The only same thing over and over is your obsession about what happened in 1965 affecting our performance today.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Fifty-5

[Sir Why You Little 37,478]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

None of those things are "the same things over and over".  They are all different things.

The only same thing over and over is your obsession about what happened in 1965 affecting our performance today.

And that is only your opinion

This club has had so many opportunities to get it right, but keeps coming up short

1965 was a huge year, if you don’t agree i can’t help you. 
Football became a TV ? Sport and we were never on...

that’s where it all started 

[Diamond_Jim 12,779]

16 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

1965 was a huge year, if you don’t agree i can’t help you. 
Football became a TV ? Sport and we were never on...

that’s where it all started 

Probably right but we really sunk ourselves imo when Richmond and then others became co mcg tenants.

Our point of difference was lost and combined with abysmal on field performance we have continued downwards ever since.

It'll take more than a change of captain to turn around 50 odd years of comparative failure.

I'd start with trialling free entry for our matches against the lesser interstate sides.. Suns etc when played at the MCG. Most of the attendees at present are members anyway so the revenue loss may not be that great compared to the awareness boost.

[sue 9,278]

16 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

And that is only your opinion

This club has had so many opportunities to get it right, but keeps coming up short

1965 was a huge year, if you don’t agree i can’t help you. 
Football became a TV ? Sport and we were never on...

that’s where it all started 

 

What exactly did we do wrong in 1965 that is relevant to TV?   Did our players wear the wrong make-up?

[640MD 3,570]

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I'd start with trialling free entry for our matches against the lesser interstate sides.. Suns etc when played at the MCG. Most of the attendees at present are members anyway so the revenue loss may not be that great compared to the awareness boost.

Lets guess,  20,000 crowd , 15,000 members, perhaps 5,000 paying people missed revenue, $20 bucks a head, $100,000 cost. possibly less if youngsters come with dad.   Potential  young members of the club later in life, I know I started early.   Good advertising on the TV from having good exposure, for 3 hours or so. Worth having a chat to the AFL,   I would think worth trying at least once to see what the real figures become.    Go Dees !!       at least its outside of the square and something different.

[old55 23,864]

22 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

And that is only your opinion

This club has had so many opportunities to get it right, but keeps coming up short

1965 was a huge year, if you don’t agree i can’t help you. 
Football became a TV ? Sport and we were never on...

that’s where it all started 

Norf won the flag in 96 when the www really took off, that's worked well for them hasn't it.