33 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

He was played as a quarterback for Vic Country during the carnival due to his elite kicking and decision making. His role was to hang back and be fed the ball to setup play. As a player, he's definitely not afraid of winning his own ball. He's no Morton/Toumpas etc.

At Dandenong this year, he played more midfield time and his contested possession rate was 48%. in 2018 his contested possession rate was 52%. Those are high numbers. To give you comparisons to our current players, that's higher than both Harmes and Brayshaw, and roughly the same as Petracca. There are zero concerns about his contested ability, and it's why he's got scope to move into the midfield as well as play defence. 

It's just a shame it doesn't seem like we'll be seeing him in red and blue. I'll be watching his career with interest, as I've seen him play live multiple times this year and he's one of the most appealing players to come through in the past few years IMO. I hope Jackson turns out to be a freak for us!

Spending more time in the mid that would make sense vs the Nats down back as you say.  28% seems quite reasonable then in the role he was asked to play.

The Jackson vs other top 5 selection 'potentially' a make or break career decision for Taylor imv LT.

Based on your insight into Young's contested side, i would be more than happy to take him at 3.

Jackson at 8 or 10?  Fair enough but i would want to bid on Green with 3 and then look to nab Young assuming GWS counters.   If they didn't and we ended up with Green then it's still a major coup imho.

What's your gut feel on who we are looking to target with 10 and 28?

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

4 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

...

What's your gut feel on who we are looking to target with 10 and 28?

Yeah I favor Young at 3, but doesn’t seem like it’s happening now unfortunately. Jackson clearly has potential, but I’m still not sold on spending pick 3 on him. We likely won’t have a pick this high for many years again so we need to nail it. Credit to Taylor and co for taking risks though!

I don’t have any solid info regarding these picks right now, but I do know we met with Ash once this week and met with Serong twice. There’s probably been others too, but I haven’t heard anything else. Both are around the 10 mark so they are on our radar. I’m hoping for Stephens or Kemp, but we’ll have to wait and see how it pans out. 

At 28 I expect us to draft a small forward or half back like Gould or Rivers if they slide.

One of my concerns is lack of height, however, this chart on afl.com.au on the height of current ruckman is an interesting one. If he grows a bit more he won't be that far off the current crop.

CLUB	PLAYER	HEIGHT
Adelaide	Reilly O'Brien	202cm
Brisbane	Stefan Martin	199cm
Carlton	Matthew Kreuzer	200cm
Collingwood	Brodie Grundy	203cm
Essendon	Tom Bellchambers	202cm
Fremantle	Rory Lobb	206cm
Geelong	Rhys Stanley	200cm
Gold Coast	Jarrod Witts	209cm
GWS Giants	Shane Mumford	198cm
Hawthorn	Ben McEvoy	200cm
Melbourne	Max Gawn	208cm
North Melbourne	Todd Goldstein	201cm
Richmond	Ivan Soldo	204cm
St Kilda	Rowan Marshall	201cm
Sydney	Callum Sinclair	200cm
West Coast	Tom Hickey	201cm
Western Bulldogs	Tim English	205cm

 

15 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Weideman at home doing some gardening?

 

Can't fit him in with Jackson in the side.

38 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Can't fit him in with Jackson in the side.

So we’ve kept him purely as depth?

Havent see one piece of evidence or a solid argument for Luke Jackson being a capable forward.

 

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

He was played as a quarterback for Vic Country during the carnival due to his elite kicking and decision making. His role was to hang back and be fed the ball to setup play. As a player, he's definitely not afraid of winning his own ball. He's no Morton/Toumpas etc.

At Dandenong this year, he played more midfield time and his contested possession rate was 48%. in 2018 his contested possession rate was 52%. Those are high numbers. To give you comparisons to our current players, that's higher than both Harmes and Brayshaw, and roughly the same as Petracca. There are zero concerns about his contested ability, and it's why he's got scope to move into the midfield as well as play defence. 

It's just a shame it doesn't seem like we'll be seeing him in red and blue. I'll be watching his career with interest, as I've seen him play live multiple times this year and he's one of the most appealing players to come through in the past few years IMO. I hope Jackson turns out to be a freak for us!

Why are so sure we will go for Jackson?

His draw backs for me are he is from WA so a better than average chance he will want to go home, If he is solely a Ruckman then he will probably take 4-5 years to be ready to Play seniors.

I don't value Ruckman all that highly , the vast majority of GF winning  teams in the last decade or so have been won by teams with average ruckman. How many times have we seen Gawn get a large number of hit outs to have  50+% of them sharked by the other team.

If he is a genuine Ruckman / Forward who can score 20-30 goals PA then that may be a  different story but I still don't like drafting Ruckman in the first round they are just not that important

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by old dee

18 minutes ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

Havent see one piece of evidence or a solid argument for Luke Jackson being a capable forward.

 

Agree. It’s a puzzle. Jackson is an athletic ruck type.  Do we need one? Gawn has a good 5-6 years left.  Is Jackson a key forward? Not that I saw in the champs.  It’s an absolute punt at pick 3. 

 

 

The way he can get out of a stoppage isn't just impressive for a ruck it's impressive for any player and it's why I think we'll eventually go with him. Green will win more footy but he's a handball king, Jackson can run it out.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by DeeSpencer

25 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

The way he can get out of a stoppage isn't just impressive for a ruck it's impressive for any player and it's why I think we'll eventually go with him. Green will win more footy but he's a handball king, Jackson can run it out.

Which he'll need to do more often than not, given his kicking leaves a lot to be desired. It's just throw it on the boot stuff.

After watching a few games of the u18s champs, the first bloke i took notice of was jackson, stood out like a becon , has so much upside, the next bloke i liked was weightman, classy and skillful, easily kicked the most goals through the champs.

Others that stood out through my eyes were gould, green, kemp, henry, ash,al and roberton

Seen a clip of Jackson playing basketball on you tube , wow, so much agility, skill and aggression, i get a sence he wants to be the best, and has that i f...ing hate losing mindset 

Big yes for me

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Which he'll need to do more often than not, given his kicking leaves a lot to be desired. It's just throw it on the boot stuff.

And yet when the forwards played in front they ended up marking them. 

If he can move through stoppages and chuck it on the left it can roll along the ground for all I care. The forwards can do the rest.

Obviously his kicking from marks/free kicks/in time and space has to be better but from what I’ve seen his right foot in those circumstances is at least serviceable.

Interesting people complained all year about us bombing long into the forward line, and then we go and look like recruiting a ruck/mid/athletic forward who can't kick and just throws it on the boot?

Just now, tappysquads said:

Interesting people complained all year about us bombing long into the forward line, and then we go and look like recruiting a ruck/mid/athletic forward who can't kick and just throws it on the boot?

I think the idea is if Jackson is Bombing it into the forward line, Gawn will be there looking to mark it.

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

And yet when the forwards played in front they ended up marking them.

And since when has our team done the basics well DS?

Our player's all go up for the same ball with no-one staying down, i barely saw a shepherd laid all year, we had no one crumbing the packs. These basic intangibles are more intuitive and instinctive, rather than habituated.  

I doubt our forwards have the sense to play in front, given our delivery into the forward line was endemic of the long bomb.

I actually thought that our project ruckman is Bradkte.  We may have to make the Weed into a forward/ruckman. 

Also I wouldn't be surprised if GWS pick up Anderson in lieu of Green. They (GWS) need a ruckman of quality.

Since we don't have pick 8 , I cannot see us getting Kemp , hence we will have to use pick 3 on him. Kemp will be a superstar.

4 hours ago, It's Time said:

One of my concerns is lack of height, however, this chart on afl.com.au on the height of current ruckman is an interesting one. If he grows a bit more he won't be that far off the current crop.

CLUB	PLAYER	HEIGHT
Adelaide	Reilly O'Brien	202cm
Brisbane	Stefan Martin	199cm
Carlton	Matthew Kreuzer	200cm
Collingwood	Brodie Grundy	203cm
Essendon	Tom Bellchambers	202cm
Fremantle	Rory Lobb	206cm
Geelong	Rhys Stanley	200cm
Gold Coast	Jarrod Witts	209cm
GWS Giants	Shane Mumford	198cm
Hawthorn	Ben McEvoy	200cm
Melbourne	Max Gawn	208cm
North Melbourne	Todd Goldstein	201cm
Richmond	Ivan Soldo	204cm
St Kilda	Rowan Marshall	201cm
Sydney	Callum Sinclair	200cm
West Coast	Tom Hickey	201cm
Western Bulldogs	Tim English	205cm

 

My concern is the rest of that article on AFL.com, not very good reading for ruckman. 
 

”Almost half of the roughly 100 players drafted since 2010 who were classified as ruckmen or spent decent time there – combined with a key-position role – haven't played an AFL match.”

“Six-time All-Australian Cox, Tiger-turned-Cat Brad Ottens and then-Magpie Jolly are the only ruckmen in the top 10 of their club's best and fairest in a premiership year since 2006.”

41 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I think the idea is if Jackson is Bombing it into the forward line, Gawn will be there looking to mark it.

Can we get the target holder in the cheer squad to hold it behind the point post to correct his kicking for goal once he marks it?

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by John Demonic

44 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I think the idea is if Jackson is Bombing it into the forward line, Gawn will be there looking to mark it.

...and vice versa?

10 hours ago, PaulRB said:

I think the idea is if Jackson is Bombing it into the forward line, Gawn will be there looking to mark it.

If we played Gawn as a key forward, he wouldn't be in the top 30 forwards in the league. If that's our grand plan may as well begin the rebuild.

When someone puts forward Young, Ash or Stephens suddenly all these questions come are asked....

: Picks up cheap kicks, won’t have that kind of time and space at AFL level, question mark over his disposal under pressure. 
 

Yet for some reason it’s an iron clad lock that Jackson will dominate the game.

How many players already at our club, that have been in the system for years still struggle with kicking the footy, whether it be in general play or set shots on goal. The list is pretty big. How many players can use their kicking to put a teammate into space and set up attacking play.

I mentioned earlier in the week to have a look at GWS and their ability to effortlessly move the ball from one to the other by elite precision kicking.

Surely our need for quality ball users outweighs the need for a potentially great player in Jackson, and if Kemp is the next Bontempelli I’d be looking at him too before Jackson.

2 hours ago, tappysquads said:

If we played Gawn as a key forward, he wouldn't be in the top 30 forwards in the league. If that's our grand plan may as well begin the rebuild.

Hey Tappy, I’ve no idea what the plan is with Jackson (My suggestion was tongue in cheek), but I do trust our FD to have one, and one they believe will give us a leg up over the 17 other clubs we’re competing with.

Jackson appears to be the wildcard this draft, that we are uniquely in a position to take...

and take it we must.

As they say “Who dares, wins”.

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by PaulRB

Everyone is overthinking this. It's quite simple. You take best player available.

All this talk about gawn, game style etc. is silly. He's an 18 yr old kid, it's about the future and no-one knows what's going to happen. Who knows, the ruck rules may change, gawn could do an acl, ruck/fwds may be the next craze. no-one knows so you take best available.

we finished 17th guys, we're not in the premiership window and there's just as much risk with Young. Everyone talks about  'that kick' in the championships but no-one talks about the fact that he absolutely butchered the ball for the previous 2 hours.

21 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Everyone is overthinking this. It's quite simple. You take best player available.

All this talk about gawn, game style etc. is silly. He's an 18 yr old kid, it's about the future and no-one knows what's going to happen. Who knows, the ruck rules may change, gawn could do an acl, ruck/fwds may be the next craze. no-one knows so you take best available.

we finished 17th guys, we're not in the premiership window and there's just as much risk with Young. Everyone talks about  'that kick' in the championships but no-one talks about the fact that he absolutely butchered the ball for the previous 2 hours.

I can assure you that Goodwin is aiming for top 4 and very much sees the opportunity for a flag in 2020.

He said so at a recent lunch in South Yarra with a group of influential supporters.

38 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

we finished 17th guys, we're not in the premiership window and there's just as much risk with Young. Everyone talks about  'that kick' in the championships but no-one talks about the fact that he absolutely butchered the ball for the previous 2 hours.

Wrong.

He did not butcher the ball for the previous 2 hours. He is one of the most reliable and accurate kicks in the draft. The only question mark raised by people in the know is whether he can replicate his accuracy under AFL pressure playing with men, not boys.