Melbourne v Hawthorn

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

BIG RED SIGNING IN:

Finally someone who understands the most important part of last night....no injuries...Anyone who thought we were going to win from halfway through the third qtr obviously was not aware of our lack of match fitness...Hawthorn has played 3 serious intra-club matches we have played 60 minutes last week of kick and giggle to help Channel 7. Run as many laps as you want it is nothing compared to match fitness...Sitting near the bench last night you could see in the last qtr the guys coming on still looked like they were blowing hard...Just couple of observations, most already said:

-Green and CJ easily our best 2 players...Jones first half was excellent (although must learn to chase), Bruce needs to learn to hunt the ball again and not get easy pill that he then turns over.

-Buckley was super impressive and gives us speed and carry through the midfield. Would prefer to see him played rather than Yze, Ward or Brown.

- Both Jamar and PJ were rubbish...we should be doing all we can to fast track Neaves to see if he is up to it otherwise a ruckman needs to be drafted/traded for next year.

- A team with Godfrey Ward and Brown will not make the eight...You can have one but not all three....Browny for mine.

- Was impressed with the couple of things Frawley did but did not think Hughes was up to it. Did nothing but get some wide ball.

Good post but I am not sure that the big men were rubbish. Neither rucks overly impressed me on the night. However, I was disappointed with PJ as he gave me little solace at this point his would move up a level this year. And while Neitz is around its a fantasy to think he will be a "tall forward".

While it is early in the season, there were a couple of senior players who needs to show the goods but barely gave a whimper:

Bizzell - hardly sighted

Yze - Played like it was August /September and was largely invisible.

Miller- Just not smart enough or skilled enough to play forward.If he is to make it then it will be as a negating backman. Simple instructions: Stick on your man. spoil his marks and dont let him get possession. More than that he struggles at this level.

Brown was the most impressive of the Godfrey, Ward and himself. Godfrey certainly lacked match fitness coming back soon after injury.

Of the new players, Buckley and Frawley impressed and I would expect them to play at some time this year. Hughes still has a far way to go. Bell and Jones were both impressive. CJ was very very impressive and I think left a few posters eating their words.

MFC will be much better to have the 10 who were out of the side to be available for selection. Certainly a fit White and McLean are critical to our success this year.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Adem Yze betrayed me last night.

I've been sticking up for him all off-season when all the high profile Demonlanders have been advocating a demotion from our best 22.

Unfortunetly I think they may be right, as his performance last night was terrible. A round 1 spot at Sandringham looks highly likely if he doesn't improve.

Also may I apologise to Chris Johnson. Before tonight I didn't consider him AFL standard. He was clearly our best last night (capped off by a ripper Super Goal and another nice set shot of a goal). I know 1 NAB Cup game doesn't make a summer, but gee he did everything right alst night.

Good on you BBP for your honesty.

Unfortunately with Yze, he has been doing that for years now and he did it alot last years as well. Alot of posters have observed his form like last night in a number of games.

Glad, you saw the light on CJ. He's not there yet but he showed that he can make it.

[ashleighn19 0]

Too often leaves his man to go to the contest. It cost us dearly.

I admit Im not on his bandwagon, but think it is silly to see him defended incessantly.

you have to be kidding franky, bell is always the one left covering someone else's man when they run off down the field. Bell is often the one caught in the middle and unfortunatly is made to look like a dope.

i only heard the radio broadcast, so i didn;t hear much of him (as you often dont with defenders) so i cant comment. my only real comment is that i wished they would've kicked it a bit more rather than over-possessing it. perhaps kicking it to Neitz who was being stood by Zac Dawson all night may have stitched up the game for us.

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

Speaking of Zac Dawson, I thought his rubbing of Doggo Brown's head after Brown had missed a goal was pretty poor sportsmanship. His team was down by 10 points at the time, and Brown has played 100 more AFL games than him. Quick message to Mr Dawson - make a name for yourself before pulling stunts like that.

(Let's be honest, he looks a shite player so far)

On the game, I saw enough to tell me that we are going to be a force this year. Buckley, CJ, Green and Bruce all very impressive. Dont get me started on Godfrey, Yze and Miller.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Speaking of Zac Dawson, I thought his rubbing of Doggo Brown's head after Brown had missed a goal was pretty poor sportsmanship. His team was down by 10 points at the time, and Brown has played 100 more AFL games than him. Quick message to Mr Dawson - make a name for yourself before pulling stunts like that.

Should he have patted him on the back and said "Bad luck of old chap, better luck next time and all that"?

What Dawson did was an everyday AFL occurrence. As an AFL coach I would be disappointed if player did not get stuck into an opposition player every time they stuffed up and I would not care what the state of the game was or if the opponent was a member of the Royal family.

[Jaded No More 68,891]

I'm far from an Yze fan, but I didn't see anything last night that was out of the ordinary.

Maybe I'm just used to seeing him avoid the contest and float in and out of the game as he pleases, because he didn't stand out as being below average. <_<

[gOLLy 401]

Ive been saying ooooozzz to the twos for a good year and a bit now. Glad to see other see the light on hs true form. Woulda made great trade bait at the end of the year

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

Personally i didn't mind the run and carry handball game. i agree they over did it yesterday but add in the pace of Davey and Whelan and the creativity of Pickett and Johnstone and I think it will work. However what they should be trying to do is use the run and carry from defence to about 75 out where you want to get the ball in the hands of Johnstone, Davey or Green to hit a leading robbo or neitz on the chest.

However this style will prove difficult for Miller who is best leading to the wings taking the ball the comes out defensive 50. not gonna happen with this game plan. they may consider moving him back to defense after a couple of unsuccessful weeks where, hopefully, he can make an impact.

If he doesn't however dont be suprised if he ends up at another club as a serviceble (not star) KPP ala Leigh Brown (for example)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Woulda made great trade bait at the end of the year

I am sure there would be Clubs pining for a 30 yo downhill skier who shirks the contested balls and goes missing in crucial games and would gladly give up their first round draft pick to snare such a prize.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If he doesn't however dont be suprised if he ends up at another club as a serviceble (not star) KPP ala Leigh Brown (for example)

He aint gonna make a serviceable KPP if his only trick in his repetoire is pick him easy touches on the lead on the wing and then not able to get possessions in or around the corridor.

His future is up back if at all.

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

As I've said in another thread, and I'm surprised this point has only be made once; we didn't lose because of gameplan, we lost because of fitness.

We actually thrashed them when we had the legs to play the "run and carry" game. I was pleased to see how successful it was when we were fit enough to play it. And we will get much better at it. And it gives us an extra string to our bow.

These are practices matches for the good clubs and should be treated as such. And we did.

Liked Buckley, Frawley, Dunn, CJ and Belly.

Very disappointed with Robbo, Miller, Rivers, Carroll and Yze.

Don't hold any hopes for Hughes and Warnock.

Thought of the fringe players only Brown did himself any favours.

Thought Jamar was the dominant ruckman against mediocre opposition.

I think everyone has overrated Jones game, but I'll watch the replay and keep an open mind.

[whatwhat say what 22,735]

it wasn't too bad; it wasn't too brilliant.

we clearly didn't look as 'ready' as they were, but when we were actually appearing to be bothered (second quarter, mostly), we looked pretty good. for mine, here's how i saw the players:

1. simon buckley - looks the goods. has genuine pace, can win the ball, and deliver it nicely.

2. nathan jones - clearly ran out of puff, but is superb in the clinches. doesn't chase much though, does he? must improve the defensive part of his game.

3. clint bizzell - looked terrible. i had high hopes he'd return to (near) his 2002 best in 2007, but he really does look 5 years away from it. perhaps he was just rusty having essentially had a year off injured in 2006, but he just didn't read the game as he used to do.

6. matthew bate - his ability to break through tackles is super impressive. strong over the ball, silky mover, seems to have all the goods. now he needs to find consistency.

7. brad miller - stick a fork in him. he's done as an afl footballer. couldn't mark on the lead under any pressure whatsoever, kicks go up and under, and he runs to the wrong spots when deep in the forward line. it was no coincidence that we dominated the game when he was off the group.

8. james frawley - has the strangest kicking action i've seen. it seems to work, and his endeavour looks good. would be surprised to see him play in the seniors unless there's a rash of injuries - touch wood! - but he's definitely one for the futre.

9. david neitz - for such a big bugger, and an old man, he's superb at ground level. looks fit and firing.

10. daniel ward - provides great run, but only runs one way. no real accountability. i agree completely with those who say we can only have one of ward or brown in the side. for mine, it's ward. he's tougher.

11. paul johnson - clearly the better ruckman for mine, as he can work with the ball around the ground. he won his share of taps, but only took 1 mark (uncontested at that).

13. adem yze - those writing him off based on this game do a disservice to adem's proud history of representing the mfc. he has his limitations it's true, but he looked good early and put his body over the ball on the hf flank and got crunched in the back. looked extremely ginger thereafter.

14. lynden dunn - yep, love him. this is what a chf looks like - ability to create something out of nothing (cf. the soccer goal), can lead up and mark the ball, a good kick, a smooth mover. leave him at chf and fughedabout miller.

17. chris johnson - definitely his best game in the mfc guernsey. he played clever football, moving to the right spaces, worked hard without the ball, and used it well when he had it. the dilemma is where he plays - he's a flank player, and can flit btw hbf, wing, and hff, but ideally you want him to settle in one or the other. has time on his side.

18. brad green - his kicking was superb. he's a clear leader on the field too. great to see him looking to be back to his best.

21. daniel bell - his lateral movement and recovery when the ball hits the turf after the first contest are a worry, but e's tough as nails, constantly tries to do his best, and disposes of the ball neatly when he's not dithering over what to do with it.

23. james mcdonald - blew the cobwebs out, laid a few excellent tackles.

24. russell robertson - was a pleasure to see him being able to move freely. he's such a tireless team-man, and will be vital to the mfc having a good 2007. super dangerous whenever the ball comes in deep.

25. nathan brown - see daniel ward, minus the aggression.

27. jared rivers - looked as rusty as the proverbial gate, but still read the play nicely.

30. simon godfrey - slower than the ox at his chunkiest, takes too long to dispose of the ball, doesn't stick to his man as a tagger should, and will hopefully not play for us all year.

32. cameron bruce - wasted disposals, but got plenty of the ball. virtually all were receives though.

37. matthew warnock - how a defender can be beaten by a one-sided forward i do not know. get on his left-hand side fer chrissakes! poor awareness, but i do like his endeavour and application.

38. daniel hughes - one-sided. moves well, but strictly a receiver. still, you need to have a couple in every side, and seeing as ours are 'veterans' these days, he's probably worth keeping an eye on.

40. mark jamar - oh good grief. big, lumbering, and can't use the football. will win his fair share of taps, but sent most of em to hodge, mitchell, and crawford.

41. nathan carroll - see rivers.

all in all, i think it was a reasonable first-up hit-out. most important thing: no (serious) injuries!

oh, and davey is going to love the 'no hands in the back' rule. the amount of spills it creates at contests means he'll rove the packs all around the ground better than most. tj too.

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

If Petrie and Leigh Brown can be serviceable big men at both ends of the ground so can Miller. Just needs the right training and motivation

[71 Molloy 266]

Posters (for the most part) have neglected to mention that we had McLean, Bartram, Davey, Holland, Trav, Moloney, Pickett, Sylvia, Whelan and White out, all of whom you could argue are in the starting 22. They had Croad, Smith and Jacobs out.

Maybe they listened to Dwayne Russell state during the broadcast that we are in it to win it and played an almost full strength side. Seriously, he said that!

[Jaded No More 68,891]

Very disappointed with Robbo

Thought he played quite well after a poor season.

There wasn't a lot of space up forward and he did keep his feet more so than last year. I know there is pressure on him to become more of a running type small forward, but I thought he did ok by pushing up the ground at times.

Can't see where the disappointment is coming from. He was one of our better senior players.

[John Dee 445]

When you are a defender playing on a one-sided forward, you should play on his non-dominant side as that is the side he is going to swing onto to use his dominant foot. Warnock, and Carroll, should therefore played Franklin on his right hand side.

Not rocket scientist stuff; They should be able to work it out, you'd think.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If Petrie and Leigh Brown can be serviceable big men at both ends of the ground so can Miller. Just needs the right training and motivation

He needs to work on being serviceable even at one of the ground first and its not forward.

Petrie only gets a game because of his size. Very ordinary.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

When you are a defender playing on a one-sided forward, you should play on his non-dominant side as that is the side he is going to swing onto to use his dominant foot. Warnock, and Carroll, should therefore played Franklin on his right hand side.

Not rocket scientist stuff; They should be able to work it out, you'd think.

As pointed out by Bob elsewhere, Franklin got his goals from turnovers by Demon players up the ground. As a consequence we got exposed on the overlap. Franklin was silky in finishing but hardly contested in possession.

[Axis of Bob 11,785]

Alistair Clarkson even said at the press conference that Buddy was exciting, but that his goals came from the hard work of the midfielders who turned the ball over.

He finished them off well, but the numbers definitely flatter his game.

[Brocky 4]

I think everyone has overrated Jones game, but I'll watch the replay and keep an open mind.

I think Jones game was good and bad. He did some good things in close but also made some schoolboy errors, e.g. running over the mark. He should learn from that though.

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

Can't see where the disappointment is coming from. He was one of our better senior players.

• Jumps for the ball and get in Neitz way all the time.
• Run into the space Neitz would lead into.
• Goes for the specie all the time, falls to ground and fails to apply any forward line pressure.
• Never runs up the ground "O'Keefee" style.
• The defensive side of his game is nothing short of pathetic.
• Adds nothing at ground level.
• Missed some easy goals he has to get if he wants to be a dangerous player

Other than that I thought he was ok.....

[Dalrot 85]

sorry it's taken me this long, we were having slight issues with our license upgrade and I wasn't able to ban people properly till this morning. Catch ya later cranny.

...and good point jacka.

People are a touch sensitive here it seems..I didn't really think he was that bad, was quite funny at times.

[Jaded No More 68,891]

• Jumps for the ball and get in Neitz way all the time.
• Run into the space Neitz would lead into.
• Goes for the specie all the time, falls to ground and fails to apply any forward line pressure.
• Never runs up the ground "O'Keefee" style.
• The defensive side of his game is nothing short of pathetic.
• Adds nothing at ground level.
• Missed some easy goals he has to get if he wants to be a dangerous player

Other than that I thought he was ok.....

Apart from the easy missed shots, I disagree with most of that.

He was up the ground a fair bit in the first half, and while he is no Davey with his pressure, I didn't think he let his man run off him willingly.

He did go overboard with the speccies, but do you think it has something to do with testing the new 'in the back' rules? At least he wasn't penalised, which is good.

I think it's unfair to expect him to suddenly become a ground level player. He isn't a small forward, although he is physically small. He'll always play like a giant, in that he leads and plays above his head as well, if not better than most of our tall forwards. He isn't a crumber, and to expect him to suddenly become one because other teams rely heavily on their running forwards, is unfair.

Maybe I'm blinded by my support for him, although I'm the first to admit that he isn't the most hard-working forward out there. But I thought he looked very fit and very willing, and for a meaningless pre-season game that's all you can ask for. Notice I'm not criticising Yze for his lack of effort either... not that you could ever blame Robbo for not trying.

[Brocky 4]

Never runs up the ground "O'Keefee" style.

That wasn't his job. Lynden Dunn was playing that role yesterday.

[DEES 0]

kinda dissapointed that we lost, but it was good to see our youngsters get a game. Great effort by most of the youngsters and hopefully they can replace the older blokes and find some consistency in their game. Hope we are ready for round 1 and everyone is fit and firing and ready for a big year. It also looks like we'll be looking for a ruckman in this years draft, but hopefully our rucks prove me wrong.