On 18/08/2019 at 11:20, Watts the matter said:

How so? Have you seen Oliver deliver the ball inside 50 on his left? Struggles on his right. He would have probably given another handball to a player under pressure.

 

A player throwing it on his boot after a blind turn, supposedly not a worse option than feeding to a teammate facing the correct direction in which the ball needed to be delivered?

And with Fritsch facing the correct way to be able to ascertain that Oliver was not under immediate pressure, flat footed or not.

Ok!

  On 18/08/2019 at 08:41, chookrat said:

Fair point, Clarry has still been one of our best players and I'm probably being a bit harsh on him due to how good he has been in his first couple of seasons. 

Fair enough Chook.  Only one more week of misery to go!

  On 17/08/2019 at 05:54, Redleg said:

If it goes through, we aren't discussing this.

Second, he appears to say sorry to Jones.

Third, he was stuffed at the time, as you can see and it was a one second decision.

Lastly,  who would you like him to have given it to, when he was 30 out, straight in front, with time to have a kick?

Spot on.

 

he says "...Sorry Mate..."  to the skipper. Clearly knows he let himself down. . And he was stuffed.

I have loved a lot of what Fritsh has done this year. He won't be out of the next finals team. Lets hope they shake hands over this

Is it just me or are the media trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here? 

"Almighty spray"? How do they come to that conclusion? Does anyone have audio on what was said? 

I must be missing something here, otherwise once again the media are purely speculating. Obviously this is a frustrating year for all and I'm sure tensions are at boiling point everywhere.

I guess we have no one to blame but ourselves for giving the media nothing much else to talk about ... 

Admonishing a teammate in front of hundreds of thousands of people is a no-no.  It is just not on.

First May and now Oliver.  And does Oliver act the way he does if the May incident doesn't happen?

Forget about team rules or whether Fritsch should have given the handball off ... we see team rules broken constantly.

There is a time and a place to have things out and that should never happen in the middle of the MCG in front of a Friday night TV audience

Quite frankly we look like complete amateurs.  And it is embarrassing. 

Goodwin needs to get on top of these types of situations too.  To say that he's had a poor year at the top would be understating things.

  On 18/08/2019 at 23:56, Macca said:

Admonishing a teammate in front of hundreds of thousands of people is a no-no.  It is just not on.

First May and now Oliver.  And does Oliver act the way he does if the May incident doesn't happen?

Forget about team rules or whether Fritsch should have given the handball off ... we see team rules broken constantly.

There is a time and a place to have things out and that should never happen in the middle of the MCG in front of a Friday night TV audience

Quite frankly we look like complete amateurs.  And it is embarrassing. 

Goodwin needs to get on top of these types of situations too.  To say that he's had a poor year at the top would be understating things.

May and Oliver sprays not really comparable 

A lot of confirmation bias going on here. I can understand players getting frustrated after the season we've had, but it doesn't mean the whole club from the President down is breaking apart.

We don't even know how much of a "spray" it was, other than the Fox report saying it was "almighty" for the purposes of promoting their own story.

All I can see is his arms out asking a question.

  On 18/08/2019 at 23:57, DemonLad5 said:

May and Oliver sprays not really comparable 

Yes they are quite comparable.  For a start the incidents were obviously related to team rules.  And both acts were petulant acts.

But if you see things differently,  fine.

I am right though and you'll realise that down the track.

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:07, Macca said:

Yes they are quite comparable.  For a start the incidents were obviously related to team rules.  And both acts were petulant acts.

But if you see things differently,  fine.

I am right though and you'll realise that down the track.

Frost made a blue. Fritsch did the right thing

There's the difference. Players spray each other all the time, just not usually when their teammate makes a good play

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:09, DemonLad5 said:

Frost made a blue. Fritsch did the right thing

There's the difference. Players spray each other all the time, just not usually when their teammate makes a good play

Well if Fritsch ignored team rules then he didn't do the right thing.

But that doesn't mean he deserved a spray in the middle of the MCG

You and I see things differently and that's ok.  But in the end we saw 2 players being admonished by their teammates in public

It is a bad look and shouldn't happen.  Angry supporters are going to be divided on this but I'm looking at it with a cool head.  With no one in the gun and not playing favourites

In other words no bias whatsoever.

 

Oliver is very good player, but he has lost his way a bit and i watch Martin against the Eagles. He is IMO the best player in the league, he has grownup so much and grown out of that player that worries to much about the other stuff. 

Oliver and Brayshaw for that matter worry to much about being cool and being mates with other players or smiling or laughing when something happens. Right now they are both in danger of becoming just good players when both could be very very good. Ultimately its up to them.

I think they will get there, and i think this year will be a wake up call for everyone in the club, its been a gradual positive build over 4 years for this club, maybe this year alerts them to the fact that success inst sustained without working harder than the year before. 

 

  On 16/08/2019 at 23:41, dazzledavey36 said:

Infuriated me seeing this from Oliver last night. Steven May copped it for making Frost accountable and showing leadership. Yet Oliver sprays Fritsch for actually playing team footy showing composure and vision. You couldn't find a more selfish arrogant footballer in our side right now. Needs a huge reality check In the off season and keep his ego in check. 

Needs to forget about how many stats he gets and become more effective with his disposal. These junk handballs to someone else under pressure serve no purpose.

 

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/clayton-oliver-slammed-for-selfish-spray-of-teammate-bayley-fritsch/news-story/9b385ab4e7ecbbae5e5750953777a7c7

Well said Dazzle. 

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:34, Demon3 said:

Oliver is very good player, but he has lost his way a bit and i watch Martin against the Eagles. He is IMO the best player in the league, he has grownup so much and grown out of that player that worries to much about the other stuff. 

Oliver and Brayshaw for that matter worry to much about being cool and being mates with other players or smiling or laughing when something happens. Right now they are both in danger of becoming just good players when both could be very very good. Ultimately its up to them.

I think they will get there, and i think this year will be a wake up call for everyone in the club, its been a gradual positive build over 4 years for this club, maybe this year alerts them to the fact that success inst sustained without working harder than the year before. 

 

I too watched Martin on Sunday and he had Elliot Yeo tagging him (Who I rate as one of top 5 best players in the comp) and Yeo couldn't keep up with him. Martin just went to a whole new level and single handle willed the tigers back into the game. It was seriously awesome to watch.

I watched that performance and thought we have no one even remotely close to grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and grabbing teammates along the way.

The smiling and laughing with opposition players is an interesting one. I too have noticed it too much this year and think to myself what the [censored] is so funny about losing every week?? 

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:44, Tricky said:

Well said Dazzle. 

Not necessarily T ... Fritsch looked like he might have been ignoring team rules as Frost might have been.

But neither player needs to be admonished in public.  There is a time and a place.

One could argue that the team rules are questionable though as Fritsch showed great vision to pick out a teammate

Which leads me to believe that the players are often too programmed away from showing individual traits

But that's another story for another thread.  Related though in my opinion.

 

  On 17/08/2019 at 00:04, TRIGON said:

To be fair, Oliver has a point. Fritsch executed a pinpoint kick to a team mate in space; this is not ‘the Melbourne way’. However, ANB retrieved the situation by missing the relatively straightforward shot at goal; in keeping with ‘the Melbourne way’.

Comical

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:50, dazzledavey36 said:

I too watched Martin on Sunday and he had Elliot Yeo tagging him (Who I rate as one of top 5 best players in the comp) and Yeo couldn't keep up with him. Martin just went to a whole new level and single handle willed the tigers back into the game. It was seriously awesome to watch.

I watched that performance and thought we have no one even remotely close to grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and grabbing teammates along the way.

The smiling and laughing with opposition players is an interesting one. I too have noticed it too much this year and think to myself what the [censored] is so funny about losing every week?? 

Spot on DD Martin was a pleasure to watch, and Oliver has those traits (maybe not at the same level)  to burst away and he obviously reads it well, so he can be that player. He just needs to balance his game out.

And the laughing and smiling makes me nearly as angry as turning the ball over. Its ok if you are winning and having success, but they should be furious, and not wanting to make friends, but make enemies because of our success. its awful to watch IMO.

  On 16/08/2019 at 23:59, Dee Zephyr said:

The interesting bit in that vision ( and it’s not a long clip) is we have a captain 5 metres away from the incident and seemingly just walks away. Wonder if anyone saw Jones have a chat to Oliver about it.

Sums up the team in a nutshell.

Not playing for Goodwin and therefore “team football” is out the door. Just playing for themselves and personal survival.

  On 17/08/2019 at 00:57, Kent said:

He is right I wouldn't kick it to him either

Anb is a serial miss kick

Could kick 2 every game if he could learn to kick has been doing it the whole of his illustrious career

 

 

While that maybe correct, it also reflects badly on our coaching dept not rectifying his kicking at goal.

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:52, Macca said:

Not necessarily T ... Fritsch looked like he might have been ignoring team rules as Frost might have been.

But neither player needs to be admonished in public.  There is a time and a place.

One could argue that the team rules are questionable though as Fritsch showed great vision to pick out a teammate

Which leads me to believe that the players are often too programmed away from showing individual traits

But that's another story for another thread.  Related though in my opinion.

 

You could be on to something - we can only speculate I guess. NFI what's going on with this club this year - looks like a dog's breakfast out there.

  On 17/08/2019 at 04:33, Ugottobekidding said:

Wish Oliver would tell Simon Goodwin where to go.

?

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:52, Macca said:

Not necessarily T ... Fritsch looked like he might have been ignoring team rules as Frost might have been.

But neither player needs to be admonished in public.  There is a time and a place.

One could argue that the team rules are questionable though as Fritsch showed great vision to pick out a teammate

Which leads me to believe that the players are often too programmed away from showing individual traits

But that's another story for another thread.  Related though in my opinion.

 

Kind of adds confirmation that the players have playing with blinkers on. Like how many times have we seen a player take a set or running opportunity for goal from long distance or take a measured chance from an angle this season? Natural instincts have been snuffed out and players are crapping themselves when taking a set shot at middling distances. Seems to be a team rule that shots on goal should only be taken from 30 metres out or from over the top moves. Perhaps rigid team rules have snuffed out instincts, creativity and by extension confidence.

Edited August 19, 20195 yr by america de cali

  On 19/08/2019 at 01:05, Tricky said:

You could be on to something - we can only speculate I guess. NFI what's going on with this club this year - looks like a dog's breakfast out there.

Players can be admonished but not in the way that May & Oliver sounded off.  After the May incident I imagined that the MC and leadership group would have got on top of the situation but we've now seen it again. 

And I go past the players involved and straight to the coach.  Both Frost & Fritsch have been picked out and we should be putting ourselves in their shoes

Would you or anyone else here like that to happen to you? They both could get their backs up and then where does it end?

I have seen that sort of thing happen at local level a stack of times and it never ends well.

  On 19/08/2019 at 00:59, Big Carl said:

Comical

Yep ANB can always be relied upon. Oliver knows its no use kicking the ball to ANB What a wastral.

.Cue the Benny Hill music>

I'm not so much concerned that a player said anything to another...as such. It's just symptomatic imho of a much larger problem. Total disarray out there. A dog's breakfast as suggested by another is spot on.  Playing like headless chooks might be another way. There's hardly a rhyme or reason in the way we go about it.

Sometimes frustration gets the better of you and I think this is predominantly what this was. Frustration.

The team is coming apart at the seams. I think it was Riewoldt ( n) who suggested they're in survival mode. It looks it

Im more concerned that it's got to this...team  mates getting all niggly because it all isnt going well.

I don't think it was particularly Oliver's place...  but then there's no captains out there, none worth a bootlace anyway.

Cracks appearing

It looks like Jones said something as well. I think it epitomizes our idiot, self-congested game plan. Lovely work by Fritsch.