POSTMATCH: Rd 21 vs Collingwood

[Skin Deeamond 339]

  On 11/08/2019 at 01:57, Kent said:

I also engaged with Pies supporters as there were few demons supporters around me.

I must say I enjoyed their analysis.

The problems with our game are easy to see.I almost can't watch at the moment so predictable are the poor set ups inevitable turnovers and missed kick tackles handball and goals.

The problems have been easy to see the coaching staff either can't or won't address them.

How our board are putting up with this is beyond me. Maybe they believe that the team metrics are trending in the right direction.

 If they are prepared to accept that claptrap then anything is possible.Please for the love of God  end this torture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The board doesn’t coach the team.

[Skin Deeamond 339]

  On 11/08/2019 at 00:40, jumbo returns said:

Good points

Poor JKH is probably suffering from performance anxiety and trying to belong

I thought he was okay yesterday and I hope he becomes a regular on the wing

Sadly, it will come down to delisting one of JKH, Billy or ANB

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Hopefully at least the first two.

[Deecisive 1,709]

i have a thorough dislike of zoning, looks like we are trying to capitalise on opposition mistakes if they miskick. if they dont miskick they score, if they do we intercept and get a turn over. Sadly we are more likely to turn it over ourselves as we go forward. there was a comment previously about howe and other collingwood players not having tackles, as they had the ball in their forward line far more time than ours that would have limited them and the other limiting factor is that melbourne forwards just did not have the ball often enough to tackle, except for Petracca. Fritch and Milkshakes disposal efficiency was woeful in the 40% range, symptomatic of our year.  The best teams tackle and tackle hard and en-mass our players run around in circles and dont bother chasing as often or as hard as they should.

[Kent 2,920]

  On 11/08/2019 at 04:51, Skin Deeamond said:

The board doesn’t coach the team.

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The coach works for the board

So they hear the same claptrap from the coach that we do.

And they put up with it seemingly.

Goodys end will come quickly and without notice in my opinion.

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 11/08/2019 at 00:17, Redleg said:

Probably agree with first point, but our skills weren’t as bad last year. This year no one can handle the ball except May and he has only played a few games. I can’t recall a Dees side with such poor disposal.

The second is a given.

We also need pace and a couple of small goal kicking forwards.

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Ive been thinking about this. I reckon they were...just as bad. The difference was whilst we had enough sound bodies , and until we were figured out, then our British Bulldog , gung ho , stack on the mills , rush the ball forwards, contain in 50 ...coerce through the goals style was successful ( as it were ). Skills weren't the #1 prerequisite....just keep corralling the ball forward. 

But of course you can't keep that up forever. That and everyone including the Chirnside Park under 10's have figured out our devilish little plan.

Now we are on the back foot ( often ) and need to have skills, they aren't there. They were never honed nor practised. Only 2-2 players can consistently kick to a position with accuracy and weight.  I'm not sure anyone can actually handball except to someones feet or the opposition !!

For a team, supposedly at the elite level, we're pretty woeful Red.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,468]

  On 11/08/2019 at 02:53, beelzebub said:

It was most bizarre to watch I thought. A bit like two wary boxers circling a ring , neither really prepared to lay a real punch, just shadow jabbing. Was very surprised that one , we tried this tact and secondly that Collingwood didnt come off the ropes more. Was like they were mesmerized...lol.. Then Bucks woke them up

Round two..they changed up...we fell apart

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We've been trying to play that style since the bye. It worked well with our ball movement in the first quarter amongst the best we have had all year. Our finishing in front of goal killed us, we missed at least 5 easy set shots which should've had the Pies on the back foot at quarter time.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,468]

  On 11/08/2019 at 04:28, Redleg said:

First: you can have 40 uncontested marks through play on, or stop, chip and kick. Uncontested marks is not a stat that means we weren't playing on.

Second: watch Oliver who plays on, even sometimes before he actually takes possession of the ball. Too many of our players are playing on when they shouldn't and that is most likely a game plan tactic and a demand from the Coaches. It is one of the factors involved in our world record turnovers for the year.

Third: we had 103 marks for the game of which 8 were contested. Therefore 97 uncontested marks for the game. You say we had 40 in the first quarter. That would leave 57 for the last three quarters. That to me is indicative of playing on and failing to get the pass accurately to a team mate, which is what we have done all year.

Go back and watch our games and look at how many passes fail to hit a target and you will find that most of them come from not steadying and playing on. Yes we also miss passes when we do stop and steady, but far less.

To me the game style of contested footy, with no outside run and continually playing on, exposes poorly skilled sides, just as has happened with us all year.

So, after all that, I have come to the conclusion that so many others came to earlier on in the year, that in addition to injuries, some bad umpiring, bad luck in often getting opposition sides ( not yesterday though), at their strongest,  as an example the Giants had Hopper, Coniglio, Kelly, Finlayson, De Boer and Himmelberg etc  against us, compared to friday against the Hawks without any of them, a lack of pace and without any decent small forwards, we have also been poorly coached this year.

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If you can bare it go back and watch the first quarter. We were far more methodical moving the ball. The commentators were all over it.

I don't disagree we've been poorly coached especially early on but there has been a distinct attempt to change the style of play in the second half of the year. The lack of key forward targets has killed us though as we have no get our option if the opposition goes man on man or presses up tighter around the kicker.

[Optimus D 283]

More changes are needed in the coaching panel. Forget players, skills, injuries and the boogie our performances are a direct reflection on their input.

And its just not good enough.

 

[Red and Blue realist 2,063]

  On 11/08/2019 at 04:26, jnrmac said:

Hardly. Has barely got near the ball or his player.

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I meant mentally, but clearly you didn't pick up on that.

[Redleg 42,181]

  On 11/08/2019 at 05:17, Dr. Gonzo said:

If you can bare it go back and watch the first quarter. We were far more methodical moving the ball. The commentators were all over it.

I don't disagree we've been poorly coached especially early on but there has been a distinct attempt to change the style of play in the second half of the year. The lack of key forward targets has killed us though as we have no get our option if the opposition goes man on man or presses up tighter around the kicker.

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Agree we played best in the first quarter.

Not only are we missing our key forwards, of whom we have one proven and one still learning the trade, but we have no Betts/Cameron type small forwards and that is killing us.

[picket fence 18,190]

  On 11/08/2019 at 00:40, jumbo returns said:

Good points

Poor JKH is probably suffering from performance anxiety and trying to belong

I thought he was okay yesterday and I hope he becomes a regular on the wing

Sadly, it will come down to delisting one of JKH, Billy or ANB

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Well.. I thought JKH was very good yesterday got plenty of it and seems to be growing in confidence! I would be happy if Stretch and ANB were moved on and we kept JKH!! 

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 11/08/2019 at 07:09, Redleg said:

Agree we played best in the first quarter.

Not only are we missing our key forwards, of whom we have one proven and one still learning the trade, but we have no Betts/Cameron type small forwards and that is killing us.

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Well actually we do, in a fashion. Just doesnt want to play ball the way the coaches want...or is just a marked man.

I have a sneaky suspicion with different Assistants he might just come good again

[jumbo returns 6,745]

  On 11/08/2019 at 08:01, beelzebub said:

Well actually we do, in a fashion. Just doesnt want to play ball the way the coaches want...or is just a marked man.

I have a sneaky suspicion with different Assistants he might just come good again

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Jeffy?

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 11/08/2019 at 08:18, jumbo returns said:

Jeffy?

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yep.. I suppose the problem is hes 30...but it's not like he's worn himself out lol. Should be a season or two left in him til we can train up a replacement ( or find a ready made) 

[jnrmac 20,385]

  On 11/08/2019 at 05:54, Red and Blue realist said:

I meant mentally, but clearly you didn't pick up on that.

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I'm not a mind reader. Say what you mean.

What you said was wrong.

 

[bing181 9,474]

  On 10/08/2019 at 23:33, 3183 Dee said:

I also thought OMac didn’t do too badly yesterday - he looked more comfortable in that position. I think you’d leave him there, at least over pre-season: his field kicking was actually pretty good and he didn’t do a bad job as 2nd ruck.

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One swallow doesn't make a spring, but Oscar was as handy a backup ruck as anyone we've tried this year.

One of the reasons is that he has his brother's tank, and can run all day, a more than useful attribute for an on-baller. Or even a forward. There's a perception that Oscar is slow, and perhaps in starting speed he is - but once he gets that big diesel up to speed, he's no slouch. Watch the lead up to his goal: he starts on the wing, but by the time he gets to the forward pocket for the receive, his Collingwood opponent is 20 yards behind. If Hunt had managed a clean kick, it would have been a walk-in goal.

[Red and Blue realist 2,063]

  On 11/08/2019 at 10:17, jnrmac said:

I'm not a mind reader. Say what you mean.

What you said was wrong.

 

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Don't engage if you can't understand what's been written. Not everyone on here is as negative as you, so we're not all trying to smash all the players and coaches at every opportunity

[jnrmac 20,385]

  On 11/08/2019 at 11:02, Red and Blue realist said:

Don't engage if you can't understand what's been written. Not everyone on here is as negative as you, so we're not all trying to smash all the players and coaches at every opportunity

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Ha ha that's gold. Write shiite and then castigate people who respond saying 'I clearly meant something else'.

Maybe take some writing lessons.

[picket fence 18,190]

  On 11/08/2019 at 08:18, jumbo returns said:

Jeffy?

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Jeffy MUST be kept on a 1 year deal with Option,, JUST LOOK at his previous stats!! Ex the last year or so!

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 11/08/2019 at 12:38, picket fence said:

Jeffy MUST be kept on a 1 year deal with Option,, JUST LOOK at his previous stats!! Ex the last year or so!

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Would  be  my thinking. But im not on the  same page as our fd

[Spirit of '87 344]

  On 11/08/2019 at 12:43, beelzebub said:

Would  be  my thinking. But im not on the  same page as our fd

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Not sure that many are on the same page as our fd...possibly players included. 

[Red and Blue realist 2,063]

  On 11/08/2019 at 11:28, jnrmac said:

Ha ha that's gold. Write shiite and then castigate people who respond saying 'I clearly meant something else'.

Maybe take some writing lessons.

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You took a select amount of what I said and tried to argue it, I tried to explain what l was saying, not changing what I was saying at all. Happy to chat if it's constructive but you went straight into a negative then told me I was wrong, even though it missed the original point.

[Sorry kids 635]

I am trying to think of two players with the exception of Gawn and a few of the midfielders who play well together and are in sync.  No teamwork other than robotics.

[Fork 'em 7,052]

  On 11/08/2019 at 05:03, beelzebub said:

Ive been thinking about this. I reckon they were...just as bad. The difference was whilst we had enough sound bodies , and until we were figured out, then our British Bulldog , gung ho , stack on the mills , rush the ball forwards, contain in 50 ...coerce through the goals style was successful ( as it were ). Skills weren't the #1 prerequisite....just keep corralling the ball forward.  

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100%
Our skills were just as bad.
We had the highest inside 50 count with mindless bombs but a deplorable conversion rate.
Goodwin spun it calling it "Chaos ball."
Problems were masked by a fit list and getting some confidence at the right time of the year.

[poita 3,945]

Less than 32K to a game on a Saturday afternoon at the MCG against our oldest rival. A week after 38K against the competition's most popular and in form team. We could fall short of 20K this week if the weather forecast is poor.

The appalling performances of the coaches and players this year has now gone far beyond simply writing off 2019. This season will take us years to recover from, both on and off the field. Gate receipts, memberships, sponsorships - the financial cost will be horrendous.

The club simply has to give members some hope for next season if it wants people to rejoin. The same ordinary players making the same basic errors under the same highly flawed game plan week after week is serving no purpose. I could perhaps cop some end of year pain if there was some promising young talent coming through, or signs of a more sustainable game plan emerging, but there is nothing to get enthused about.

The less said about the game the better, but the thing that summed up the match (and the season) better than anything else was the regular sight of Steele Sidebottom at centre bounces with the entire Southern Stand wing to himself whilst Nathan Jones pushed back to defence with zero impact. Even more comical was when we copped a warning for not starting with 6/6/6 because Dunkley wandered across to Sidebottom at one point whilst Jones was still covering grass on the point of the square. A clear sign that coaches and players either have no idea or don't care (or probably both).