2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Maybe I shouldn't have combined the 2. Elliott's a gamble on upside - my concern there is the injury risk, Tomlinson is very much a move to bolster bottom end of the 22. It's nice that he's a utility but I'm not entirely convinced that ups his value.

If there was a Wins Against Replacement stat for footballers I think Tomlinson's would be pretty low and therefore spending significant money on him doesn't make him good value.

 

Absolutely. Agree with all of that, but yeah, it's about improving our 22, not trading in depth.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Putting the money in the cap aside for now DS

You'll know more than me re Tomlinson ... I don't watch a lot of footy outside of our games.

So for the benefit of others and myself ...

Can Tomlinson be one of our best 12? (Best 22 is not descriptive enough for me)

Does he make good decisions and can he kick well to position?  2nd key forward or 2nd key back?  Marking skills? 

Big body in the midfield and can he make a difference there?  And has he got a good tank or more of a burst player?

Leadership skills?

I think the inclusion of 'cap' in the conversation though is vital when discussing Tomlinson. I probably wouldn't think he'd be in our best 12. If he is come next year, we're probably struggling, but if you don't pay the world for him, filling another best 22 spot is a no brainer for the right price.

He's certainly comfortably a best 22 player, despite it not being descriptive enough. Anyone has a sustained position in an extremely talented Giants side over the years, is a significant upgrade on most of our list.

As you say, we need to improve our list. There's far too many C graders and even D graders now. We're not paying in picks and I'm sure we're not paying overs in terms of dollars either, probably more just the security of a longer deal and a bit more money than the Giants can offer (plus a move back to Victoria).

1 hour ago, Macca said:

If Frost goes Oscar may well stay on.  You've got to have back-up for May,  Lever et al

I'd keep Oscar but not play him unless he's needed as back-up.  He has no real currency so he is more value to us in that regard.

Petty might come on though and Tomlinson and 1 or 2 other new talls could come on board so a lot of fringe players will come under the microscope RN.

I reckon we're set for a do-over rather than a mini rebuild.  Pace,  kicking & marking skills & poise being the prequisites.

What's the difference?

35 minutes ago, faultydet said:

I know bugger all about him except that Tommy Mac will finally have some competition on our 3km time trial.

Tomlinson is regularly first over the line for the Giants.

Well that's a plus FD

GWS have regularly off-loaded non stars with haste.  They understand drafting but I reckon they found a way by default.

And they regularly keep going back to the well with more 1st round picks attained with their off-cuts.

So Tomlinson lasted for 8 years but they can't fit him into their salary cap?  Time to swoop if he's any good.

36 minutes ago, A F said:

What's the difference?

We've traditionally rebuilt through the draft.  Speculation picks where we have to wait 3 - 5 years (whilst holding our breath)

My description of a footy do-over is you bring in ready-to-go talent.  They play immediately and the team therefore has an instant new look.

You got another name instead AF, ... I'm not rusted on to 'do-over'

Make-over?  ?

Edited September 23, 20195 yr by Macca

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Putting the money in the cap aside for now DS

You'll know more than me re Tomlinson ... I don't watch a lot of footy outside of our games.

So for the benefit of others and myself ...

Can Tomlinson be one of our best 12? (Best 22 is not descriptive enough for me)

Does he make good decisions and can he kick well to position?  2nd key forward or 2nd key back?  Marking skills? 

Big body in the midfield and can he make a difference there?  And has he got a good tank or more of a burst player?

Leadership skills?

Best 12: No. Might finish close to that in the B+F (play all 22 and by default you should finish at least top 16 with standard injury/form of others) but not on talent. Finished 7th in a tight field last year in the Giants B+F which is a surprise but otherwise no top 10  finishes- I think all their injuries would've had him far lower on a per game basis.

Decision making: Solid enough but usually takes the safe options
Key tall at either end: Very much doubt it. Doesn't seem to have a good leap, power or bust off the mark, nor is he a super tall 198+ type - at 194cm he's more an oversize mid. His marking is poor for his size but he's still damn tall for a wing.
Excellent tank allowing him to play wing, back up ruck or if needed on a flank

Not sure about leadership but certainly a flawless clubman who does a lot of media for the Giants. If not a leader he'll be a good follower.

Lack of speed is my biggest concern if the comp keeps heading the way the Tigers have taken it. Suddenly he goes from a good utility who can play wing and/or 2nd ruck to a bit of a nothing player (especially if teams start playing a pair of 200cm+ specialist rucks). That's why he was dropped for the Giants first final but he was also bought back in to do a job after the Giants lost Deledio through injury.

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Putting the money in the cap aside for now DS

You'll know more than me re Tomlinson ... I don't watch a lot of footy outside of our games.

So for the benefit of others and myself ...

Can Tomlinson be one of our best 12? (Best 22 is not descriptive enough for me)

Does he make good decisions and can he kick well to position?  2nd key forward or 2nd key back?  Marking skills? 

Big body in the midfield and can he make a difference there?  And has he got a good tank or more of a burst player?

Leadership skills?

Amazing tank. Good long distance speed. Like ANB and JKH in that respect, and given its importance to our game plan, it's an attribute our coaching team rate.

Very well liked,  great team man. Unsure how that translates to leadership. 

Can play 3rd KPF or KPD, can punch hit in the ruck, but most successful position has been wing. Would be fine playing with Lever and May as the third defender. 

Best 12? Possibly. Best 10-15? Definitely. 

Personally, I think his versatility would make him one of the first picked, even if you have 10-15 players ahead of him on skill. We don't have many players who can successfully switch around the field, giving us cover for match day injuries but also at selection. 

He is the player GWS should let go.

He is the player a struggling club should get.

Should we get him? Yes, and that's why I'm not happy about it.

1 hour ago, BAMF said:

He is the player GWS should let go.

He is the player a struggling club should get.

Should we get him? Yes, and that's why I'm not happy about it.

So a struggling Club should also go after Elliot?

On 9/21/2019 at 8:12 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Better than Frosty.  Not on watching him in the last 2 weeks. 

You've gotta be joking. Do people watch the same games as me? Frost does the occasional good thing, he has good closing speed and decent one on one. But he is an absolute butcher when he gets the footy and an absolute liability to the team.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by Dr. Gonzo

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You've gotta be joking. Do people watch the same games as me? Frost does the occasional good thing, he has good closing speed and decent one on one. But he is an absolute butcher when he gets the footy and an absolute liability to the team.

I watched a replay of the Melbourne v GWS from last year. Tomlinson played really well and some of his kicks were flat 40m bullet like.

The ones that are saying they'd much rather frost then Tomlinson are the same clueless ones over and over.

On 9/23/2019 at 12:23 PM, Dee Watcher said:

Just what we need another guy who doesn't really have a position he is elite at but just "good" at a few different roles.

We have "good" players problem is we need a few very good & elite players! 

 

Corey Wagner, Josh Wagner, Billy Stretch, Keilty OMac and JKH all got games this year.

I'm sure we can slot him in somewhere

I also love how everyone on here is an expert on Tomlinson, all his weaknesses, his ceiling, his pros and cons in each position after watching two games immediately after it became public knowledge that we're into him.

 

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by Dr. Gonzo

On 9/23/2019 at 3:41 PM, Demon Disciple said:

That's the problem though DS. Goodwin won't care if it fails, as he would've been given the [censored] by then.

Goodwin is gambling with the medium/long-term health of the club trying to save his own skin. That's the part i don't like.

Rubbish. What are we giving up to get these guys in? We're not mortgaging our future for these guys, we don't even have to give up draft picks for Tomlinson or Elliott. Plus we have a list manager to keep an eye on TPP's, it's not as if Goodwin is dictating to the entire FD on every trade and contract negotiation.

Where I think he will be most valuable is his ability to mark and compete in the air from the wing position. We have a fairly small midfield and certainly no one that can consistently compete in marking contests. it's a luxury many clubs have with midfielders like Danger, Fyfe, Yeo etc. Our options down the line this year were pretty much Max or bringing a key forward up to the wing leaving us with one less marking option in the forward line. Tomlinson doesn't take a lot of contested marks but I've seen a lot of his games and he will generally half the contest and bring the ball to ground.

Like I've mentioned before he might not have burst speed but his ability to run and spread in a system that thrives on this has been evident. His engine allows him to work his man and present well on the wings hence his consistent uncontested marking numbers. Finished 30th last year and 14th this year for marks across the league.

 

Does anyone secretly want tomlinson to miss out on a flag so he comes to Melbourne with more of a burning desire to win one? 

3 minutes ago, The Lobster Effect said:

Does anyone secretly want tomlinson to miss out on a flag so he comes to Melbourne with more of a burning desire to win one? 

No.

You never want to wish upon anyone missing a grand final. If anything I hope he gets to experience grand final day so he can pass on his experience to our playing group on how incredibly hard it is to actually get there.

 

42 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Tony Sheahan

 

@TonySheahan

 

Adam tomlinson agrees to terms to join

@melbournefc

Given Tony Sheahan said it, it's now much less likely that Tomlinson is headed our way. He gets more wrong than anyone else in the media, he only gets it 'right' once the deals are done and well known. Well and truly the worst of any journalist who has a crack at trade week.

 

20 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

No.

You never want to wish upon anyone missing a grand final. If anything I hope he gets to experience grand final day so he can pass on his experience to our playing group on how incredibly hard it is to actually get there.

 

Spot on, his hunger will come from being moved on from a club, not from missing out in the big dance. There's a chance he could be left out of the team if Cogs and Whitfield are right, they'll need to find 3 spots (Greene as well). 

All good and well tweeting players have agreed to terms with a new club, I would like to see them state when this arrangement actually occurred. Can’t imagine Tomlinson in probably the biggest week of his sporting life just ducked out of the team meeting to text a ‘yes I’m on board in 2020’ to the Dees.

7 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

All good and well tweeting players have agreed to terms with a new club, I would like to see them state when this arrangement actually occurred. Can’t imagine Tomlinson in probably the biggest week of his sporting life just ducked out of the team meeting to text a ‘yes I’m on board in 2020’ to the Dees.

Don't think his Manager was in the team meeting.

12 hours ago, Yung Blood said:

Where I think he will be most valuable is his ability to mark and compete in the air from the wing position.

An excellent point. There are two wings and Maxy can only be on one of them. Hogan played this role super well and it is one reason we have missed him so much.

Someone mentioned Pederson was in some ways similar player ie a utility who can back, forward and pinch hit in the ruck and that we missed him playing this role. A really good point that i hadn't considered. 

Is Tony Sheahan an actual journalist or just a Twitter troll? Serious question.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

No.

You never want to wish upon anyone missing a grand final. If anything I hope he gets to experience grand final day so he can pass on his experience to our playing group on how incredibly hard it is to actually get there.

 

I think @The Lobster Effect was talking about missing out on a flag, not missing out on playing grand final day. 

Edited September 25, 20195 yr by Ethan Tremblay

On 9/22/2019 at 10:03 AM, Redleg said:

Not many blokes leave after playing in a GF. 

The great Ronald Dale Barassi!!!

I've been thinking about this one a bit and he'd be very handy rotating from wing to high half forward, his height makes him a serious threat, playing on guys like Gaff if they aren't accountable he could become a serious offensive weapon drifting forward.