Demons Grand Plan for Yarra Park Training HQ

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

8 hours ago, ding said:

I guess this means the Yarra Park idea is dead in the water. I can see us homeless for another few years, before announcing a poor second  best option, with a far inferior building than we planned over the railway tracks.  Was hoping that we had secured political support by dumping our poker machines. Guess not.

Oh well, at least i wont have to vote Labor now.

Maybe we weren't asking for enough in the first place. Perhaps we should have added a Formula 1 track to Yarra Park and to raise the railway to a Skyrail to the plans and then agreed to a mediated compromise by removing the F1 component and the Skyrail. Isn't that the way politics is meant to work?

[Cards13 9,117]

Bloody punishing baby boomers.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Cards13

[Guest]

9 hours ago, ding said:

I guess this means the Yarra Park idea is dead in the water. I can see us homeless for another few years, before announcing a poor second  best option, with a far inferior building than we planned over the railway tracks.  Was hoping that we had secured political support by dumping our poker machines. Guess not.

Oh well, at least i wont have to vote Labor now.

At least I get to vote for the Socialist Alternative like I always wanted.

[george_on_the_outer 7,611]

The Yarra Park proposal was always going to be problematic, and a compromise particularly for Office and Admin space.

I don't understand why we have not been mentioned in association with the Caulfield racecourse development.....

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/guy-first-out-of-barriers-with-pledge-to-open-up-caulfield-racecourse-20181007-p5089l.html

More space, no limitations on use, community involvement, part of the Demons heartland....

And it could make ProDee doubly happy if his mob get up. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by george_on_the_outer

[pineapple dee 2,892]

Just now, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Maybe we weren't asking for enough in the first place. Perhaps we should have added a Formula 1 track to Yarra Park and to raise the railway to a Skyrail to the plans and then agreed to a mediated compromise by removing the F1 component and the Skyrail. Isn't that the way politics is meant to work?

Look at those old farts. Glad I'm not one of them !;;;;!!

 

[old dee 23,801]

Dead, now what is option 2? 

Honestly it was a pipe dream from day one. 

[old dee 23,801]

9 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

The Yarra Park proposal was always going to be problematic, and a compromise particularly for Office and Admin space.

I don't understand why we have not been mentioned in association with the Caulfield racecourse development.....

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/guy-first-out-of-barriers-with-pledge-to-open-up-caulfield-racecourse-20181007-p5089l.html

More space, no limitations on use, community involvement, part of the Demons heartland....

And it could make ProDee doubly happy if his mob get up. 

Facility at Goschs is the only alternative. Every thing else is so far from our home it is a joke. 

[Copuchas 763]

9 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

This is what i don't get with these NIMBY's. They hide behind their mantra of protecting the local parkland, yet low and behold, there is this massive structure (MCG) smack bang in the middle of it.

How space for another open oval would detract from Yarra Park is completely beyond me. If anything, it would smarten the place up, providing an accessible oval for local residents to use outside of training times.

I guess our fall back position could be just training on the G ?

You and CBDees and others keep referring to the oval as if that was the only component of the proposal.   It was the six storey building over the railway line that fundamentally alters the Wellington Pde streetscape and vista that was the fatal flaw.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

East Melbourne residents are truly a special brand of entitled. They live 10 minutes walk from the CBD yet expect to live without traffic, without development, surrounded by parks and gardens like they live on the urban fringe.

I guess that's what happens when your property values increase something like 100 fold over the course of your life time.

Things can change after elections so we shouldn't completely write it off but it does make it harder. I wonder if it's possible to build the facility and still train at Gosch's? I understand why people don't want to change the character of Yarra Park, but the argument against building over the train line and making use of underutilised space isn't as good. Maybe get the funding for the facility and get a proper stand alone base at the MCG and then work on reclaiming part of the park for an oval at a later stage.

[old dee 23,801]

11 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

East Melbourne residents are truly a special brand of entitled. They live 10 minutes walk from the CBD yet expect to live without traffic, without development, surrounded by parks and gardens like they live on the urban fringe.

I guess that's what happens when your property values increase something like 100 fold over the course of your life time.

Things can change after elections so we shouldn't completely write it off but it does make it harder. I wonder if it's possible to build the facility and still train at Gosch's? I understand why people don't want to change the character of Yarra Park, but the argument against building over the train line and making use of underutilised space isn't as good. Maybe get the funding for the facility and get a proper stand alone base at the MCG and then work on reclaiming part of the park for an oval at a later stage.

It is dead DS. Time to move on. 

[Gator 17,383]

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

The Yarra Park proposal was always going to be problematic, and a compromise particularly for Office and Admin space.

I don't understand why we have not been mentioned in association with the Caulfield racecourse development.....

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/guy-first-out-of-barriers-with-pledge-to-open-up-caulfield-racecourse-20181007-p5089l.html

More space, no limitations on use, community involvement, part of the Demons heartland....

And it could make ProDee doubly happy if his mob get up. 

I no longer have a mob, George.

They equally sicken me.

[rjay 24,991]

6 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I no longer have a mob, George.

They equally sicken me.

It really is dumb & dumber 'ProDee'...I just can't figure out which one is dumb & which one is dumber.

Our so called political masters leave a lot to be desired.

[old dee 23,801]

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

It really is dumb & dumber 'ProDee'...I just can't figure out which one is dumb & which one is dumber.

Our so called political masters leave a lot to be desired.

It is about them and not us rjay.

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

Need to be in a marginal seat like Geelong 

[hemingway 7,628]

1 hour ago, Copuchas said:

You and CBDees and others keep referring to the oval as if that was the only component of the proposal.   It was the six storey building over the railway line that fundamentally alters the Wellington Pde streetscape and vista that was the fatal flaw.

Also, East Melbourne residents and many others are concerned about the increasing loss of public land, particularly park land. 

These days, many want parkland for passive recreation rather than ovals and other sports facilities. This view extends out into the burbs.Councils and town planners talk about passive recreation being more important than sports facilities.  

Rightly, they are cynical of any promises made by politicians and vested interests and see any proposal as the thin end of the wedge.

Its not just what it starts out as, but what it ends up being, together with the flow-on consequences. 

With Yarra Park, there has been an increase of games and other events at the MCG during the day, evening and night. When the light towers went up, the residents only expected to have to put up with Friday night games and occasional other night games. At the time, there was strong opposition to the light towers from residents and community groups and they felt that assurances from Government and the MCC at the time turned out to be false and misleading.    

There is also general community concern about the encroachment of buildings and facilities on public land. Look no further than Royal Park, Albert Park, Olympic Park and Flinders Park.  

[Clintosaurus 7,852]

17 hours ago, praha said:

There was a heated discussion on Reddit about this. Most of those in not in favour went along the lines of "MY PARK HURRR DURRR" and basically carried on like as if this would completely ruin the park.

That is pretty much it, and basically tried to shout down anyone who supported the development as corporate thieves stealing everyone's land.

[old dee 23,801]

The fact is we blew it when we let the Pies take over Olympic park.

That mistake will haunt us for decades to come.

[old dee 23,801]

22 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Also, East Melbourne residents and many others are concerned about the increasing loss of public land, particularly park land. 

These days, many want parkland for passive recreation rather than ovals and other sports facilities. This view extends out into the burbs.Councils and town planners talk about passive recreation being more important than sports facilities.  

Rightly, they are cynical of any promises made by politicians and vested interests and see any proposal as the thin end of the wedge.

Its not just what it starts out as, but what it ends up being, together with the flow-on consequences. 

With Yarra Park, there has been an increase of games and other events at the MCG during the day, evening and night. When the light towers went up, the residents only expected to have to put up with Friday night games and occasional other night games. At the time, there was strong opposition to the light towers from residents and community groups and they felt that assurances from Government and the MCC at the time turned out to be false and misleading.    

There is also general community concern about the encroachment of buildings and facilities on public land. Look no further than Royal Park, Albert Park, Olympic Park and Flinders Park.  

I have got to say Ernest that I can see  that side of the argument.

We are where we are because of the failure of a number of administrations  over half a century.

It is now very difficult to fix the problem. 

If something cannot be done to fix the problem in the Goschs area then I see no alternative but to move to the Boon docks.

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

We had our chance in 2000 and blew it badly. We showed no foresight back then and ae now paying for it BIG TIME. 

The only way forward as i see it is to build our own facility at Gosch’s Park...

Edited November 21, 2018 by Sir Why You Little

[old dee 23,801]

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We had our chance in 2000 and blew it badly. We showed no foresight back then and ae now paying for it BIG TIME. 

The only way forward as i see it is to build our own facility at Gosch’s Park...

AS I said that is going to haunt us for decades.

If we cannot build something at Goschs then it looks like outer Mongolia to me.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

18 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We had our chance in 2000 and blew it badly. We showed no foresight back then and ae now paying for it BIG TIME. 

The only way forward as i see it is to build our own facility at Gosch’s Park...

I suspect the lack of foresight wasn't the only problem. I presume we would have had insufficient financial resources to do anything there anyway.

[old dee 23,801]

11 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I suspect the lack of foresight wasn't the only problem. I presume we would have had insufficient financial resources to do anything there anyway.

Probably true LDC but it does not alter the fact our big chance slipped away.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Now that the Andrews Governent has said it won’t be built under his Government I am a lot more confident it will.

I was undecided who to vote for now it is an easy choice.

Vote Labor!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,842]

I haven't read the article ( probably can't get through the pay wall anyway ), but if Labor are not supporting it, is that actually the same as them opposing it?

Or could they still be leaving themselves open to the position of letting normal development appovals process take it's course without ditect state government interference?  i.e. are they taking a more neutral position and their lack of support could be read more that they are not proposing to contribute funds towards construction like various governments have for things like Kadinia Park and the Western/Whitten Oval redevelopments?

[old dee 23,801]

9 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I haven't read the article ( probably can't get through the pay wall anyway ), but if Labor are not supporting it, is that actually the same as them opposing it?

Or could they still be leaving themselves open to the position of letting normal development appovals process take it's course without ditect state government interference?  i.e. are they taking a more neutral position and their lack of support could be read more that they are not proposing to contribute funds towards construction like various governments have for things like Kadinia Park and the Western/Whitten Oval redevelopments?

I think you are grasping at straws RG.