Roos + Lyon - On The Couch

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

It does pose a question of how good the list actually is 

my take on it is 

Elite players in their positions 

• Clayton Oliver
• Max Gawn 
• Steven May 
• Jake Lever 
• Tom McDonald 

Very good players - Would likely be 22 at most other clubs

• Christian Petracca 
• Christian Salem 
• Angus Brayshaw 
• Jack Viney 
• James Harmes 
• Nev Jetta
• Nathan Jones 
• Bailey Fristsch (Forward) 
• Sam Frost  (Raw but really talented) 
• Michael Hibberd 
• Jake Melksham 
• Jayden Hunt
• Marty Hore 

While all the rest are probably fringe players. some are probably a bit stiff but trying to keep it realistic. 

So that leaves us with 5 genuine A grade players, two of whom have been injured for big parts of the year, and one who's been horrifically out of form and now injured. 60% of your top 5 players basically not being there significantly hurts any side. imagine the Eagles missing Gaff, Shuey and McGovern for significant portions of the year. 

and for good players you've got 13 - most have played a good chunk of the year, but there is a clear balance issue between inside and outside. outside of Frost and Hunt, none have real leg speed, only Salem and Melksham i'd say would be considered elite field kicks. 

 

18 very good or above players shows the list is there to play finals. but we do need to balance it out better than it is now with positional changes, maximising strengths and being brave at the trade table 

my opinion is you can only carry one ball hunting inside midfielder these days, the rest have to offer something on the outside

I think we lack genuine pressure forwards, forward structure, quality leading patterns and leadership to set up the forward line correctly. 

i think our midfield balance is exposed badly when all our mids first instinct is to go in and get the ball and they get sucked to the honey pot and if we don't win it, we get torched on the outside 

and even if we do we don''t have the class or the quality to get full value for it. 

down back we look solid but our lack of outside speed too often puts our defenders in the unwinnable position

[Supreme_Demon 3,851]

I have no issue with Garry Lyon and David Schwarz giving their opinions about the current predicament that the Melbourne Demons are in. However, I rate David's opinions higher than Garry's as I consider Garry a very rude and selfish person from my past brief interactions when I was  a lot younger as a teenager back in the late 1990's attending Melbourne Demons Family Day events.

Nevertheless, rather than just outright criticism it would be better if they gave back to the Melbourne Demons by being more involved at the Club either at Board level or Football department level.

I know they have work and family commitments, but why not come by training once or twice a month and help out? They were both very talented forwards when they played for the Melbourne Demons. Why not come and help with goal-kicking practice or something like that? If you want to do something to change the Club around then be more involved.

Anyway, that is just my 2 cents worth.

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Supreme_Demon

[rjay 24,928]

9 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Elite players in their positions 

• Clayton Oliver
• Max Gawn 
• Steven May 
• Jake Lever 
• Tom McDonald 

I think you might be overrating Tommy a bit there 'Patches'...

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

13 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think you might be overrating Tommy a bit there 'Patches'...

I see him as a 50 goal a year second key forward which is elite, issue is he's not currently playing as a second forward. so i am rating him strictly based on what i see his ideal position as,  last year he was elite as a key forward with the support of Hogan there. 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

5 hours ago, rjay said:

Ok 'steve' what would your plan be to regenerate the club from here on?

Do you think it's a one year task or might take a few?

Targeted players, coaching, FD, committee, board, CEO.

Basically if you were the benevolent dictator at the MFC what would you do?

...be realistic in the targets and how we can get them to the club unlike some with a scattergun approach.

I've said my piece many times over the last two years regarding our list, so @titan_uranus has either missed reading those contributions or hasn't been bothered which is why he believes I haven't provided detail. Not my prob.

I don't wish to comment on every aspect of the club because in many areas we are doing just fine. I have concerns with our list and as of this year, Goodwin.

For three years, I have always been of the belief that we are a noticeably unbalanced and poorly skilled side compared to most others and therefore very one-dimensional in the way that we play and how we're instructed to play.

Last year in June, I responded to Saty with the post below as he was (as always), taking a very relaxed approach to our losses and just generally toeing the company line.

 

"Here's a question. If the players had 'learnt' from bombing the ball long against stronger sides who apply strong pressure, then we'd have rectified it after round 1 when we beat Geelong 64 to 41 in the inside 50 count yet lost the game by 2 points.

What's your answer? 

Against Hawthorn we won the count 54 to 53 yet lost to them by 67 points. 

Against Richmond and Collingwood we were comprehensively beaten up around the ball being smashed in clearances and possession chains out of stoppages resulting in scores due to opposition heat. We nearly always gave the ball up under pressure. 

Against Port, we smashed them in inside 50's yet lost the game by 10 points. Again. Pressure. 

Like you, I can see a lot of positives within the group and I know there's a lot of growth and potential there with our core group of 23-24 year olds. But unlike you, I'm completely aware that these patterns emerge because of a team deficiency that can only be changed by additions to our squad that will give us a better balance and blend of attributes. "

 

The way that we lose games to disciplined sides is no mystery at all to me. Goodwin has shown a complete lack of flexibility regarding our list and hasn't done nearly enough to address what have become obvious trends in the way we lose games.

 

I also posted this after our queens Birthday loss to Collingwood last year:

 

"I've tried hard not to post since Monday's loss, allowing for some time to view the game on TV, (having been there live) and to watch closely on what went on at the coal face which is where the game was lost. 

First off, it's clear as day that Buckley went to town on the first quarter of the bulldogs game and would have shown his players and said, "look what happens when you pressure Melbourne to this level". Props to him, we couldn't handle it at all and they maintained that level of intensity for the entirety of the game which was impressive.

Why were or levels of intensity and pressure not at theirs given its what we've built our entire brand on? 

Buckley also exposed us in a couple of areas within the midfield. Having a contested heavy, one dimensional midfield group who are all natural ball chasers/inside players can be a double edged sword. When we're on, playing with intensity and most importantly are 'clean' in the contest, we look really good. If the opposition put pressure us at the coal face and nullify Gawn's taps then we look slow and reactionary given the types of players we have playing as half forwards and wings. 

As an example, if you watch Harmes closely in patches when he's on the wing, you'll see how hard he finds it to sit back from the contest and trust that a team mate would win the ball. Some of his efforts when he decided to chase the ball were very poor as he had no impact and it allowed for his opponent to sit back on the outside and become an option in space. Too many times this happened, and Collingwood had a much better spread of midfielders both inside and outside. Sometimes I wonder what instruction is given to players like Harmes and Brayshaw when they play on the wing and or if they're listening? Both players played their under age years as inside mids with Harmes having rests forward. 

Unfortunately at this stage, if the opposition get on top in that area, we don't really seem to have another plan due to our personnel through through the midfield. I noticed Goodwin tried to throw Hogan in there again and for me, that's just clutching at straws as he is not a midfielder and cannot play that position effectively. Watch some of his efforts and you'll see. 

Whilst there are other areas of the ground we can tinker with, like the Vince and Lewis in the same backline conundrum, I thought I'd concentrate on the midfield as it's our strength. 

Bringing Tyson in is not an answer for me. Unless you're taking one of our starting mids out which there's no need yet imo. We need to get back to starting the game with real intensity and being clean with that first possession. Pederson whilst strong in the air, doesn't provide the same defensive pressure as Smith or Weideman. I would bring Smith back in. 

Other than that, keep the same side. The only way we beat Port over there is by playing to our strength and smashing them at the coal face. Oh, and Petracca needs to start in the middle. Needs a rocket. "

 

The way in which we lost to Collingwood^, Hawthorn and Richmond last year were eerily similar to how we lost to West Coast in the Prelim. The same can be said for losses in 2017. There's a trend.

And now this year, with a whole range of other influencing factors such as an extensive injury list, poor off-season pre-season numbers, poor depth and Goodwin playing the same squad with the same personnel lining up in the same positions, we find ourselves sitting 17th on the ladder.

We had a one wood and when it is taken away from us we have absolutely no other way of playing due to the makeup of our list.

It's a real problem. 

Can it be addressed? Obviously. As I've also said many times, this might have been the year we needed for Goodwin to get his wake up call.

Edited July 24, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Following on from the above, a genuine question emerges that I'd like to ask the happy-go-luckies around these parts.

There's one obvious trend that has emerged from the last few years regarding inside 50's. Against many top 10 sides over the past three seasons, we have either matched or beaten them in inside 50's yet we've ended up losing the game, sometimes very badly.

What has Goodwin done as far as list approach goes to rectifying this over that period?

What genuine changes has he made?

Anndddd go.

Edited July 24, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[bing181 9,238]

4 hours ago, DubDee said:

we will have our best chance of a flag when Gus, Clarry, Salem, Trac etc are 26-30

In a nutshell.

Which is why so many of the players were sent for one-off operations last year. We were never going to win the flag this year.

[rjay 24,928]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Can it be addressed? Obviously. As I've also said many times, this might have been the year we needed for Goodwin to get his wake up call.

Thanks 'steve', I happen to agree with you on many of these points.

I've posted elsewhere that the Prelim should have been a big wake up call and as you've shown the writing was on the wall even earlier.

Let's hope Goodwin has received the message loud and clear this year otherwise we're in for a world of pain next year.

[DubDee 25,869]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Following on from the above, a genuine question emerges that I'd like to ask the happy-go-luckies around these parts.

There's one obvious trend that has emerged from the last few years regarding inside 50's. Against many top 10 sides over the past three seasons, we have either matched or beaten them in inside 50's yet we've ended up losing the game, sometimes very badly.

What has Goodwin done as far as list approach goes to rectifying this over that period?

What genuine changes has he made?

Anndddd go.

you mean over the past few years when we've gone from a basket case to making a prelim?  I reckon he must have done something decent in that time

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Following on from the above, a genuine question emerges that I'd like to ask the happy-go-luckies around these parts.

There's one obvious trend that has emerged from the last few years regarding inside 50's. Against many top 10 sides over the past three seasons, we have either matched or beaten them in inside 50's yet we've ended up losing the game, sometimes very badly.

What has Goodwin done as far as list approach goes to rectifying this over that period?

What genuine changes has he made?

Anndddd go.

In terms of his game plan he's made next to no obvious changes, maybe a few minor tweaks but he seems to think his game plan is flawless and if she just shuffles the magnets enough it'll fall into place. 

for me some of the weaknesses are very simple to fix. 

1. need to get better ball users forward of center to maximise the quality of our kicks inside 50, Salem, Melksham, Jones, lewis, Fritsch, and even hold onto it until we can get it to one of these guys when numbers are back. 

2. teach the players about changing tempos of the game, i've seen no clear improvement in the players understanding of when to change gears and tempos of the game, mostly we just seem to go hell for leather or way too slow. 

3. hold our stoppage structure and make sure wings and flanks don't get sucked in. we have good ball hunters, back Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw to win it in close and get it out to the Salems of the world so they can use it. right now even when we do win it we don't have many options beyond an under pressure kick forward. 

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

you mean over the past few years when we've gone from a basket case to making a prelim?  I reckon he must have done something decent in that time

Yeh, you forgot the part where we're back to being a basket case though. 

Last year was a year of wild inconsistency. Yes we made a prelim of the back off several weeks of good form. But remind me what happened? No goals to half time? Was it an anomoly? 

No. That performance was all too familiar.

Edited July 24, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[DubDee 25,869]

12 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh, you forgot the part where we're back to being a basket case though. 

Last year was a year of wild inconsistency. Yes we made a prelim of the back off several weeks of good form. But remind me what happened? No goals to half time? Was it an anomoly? 

No. That performance was all too familiar. 

Remind you what happened? We smashed Geelong and then Hawks. 

You cant ignore the good. Obviously I know the bad. 

We will bounce back

[jnrmac 20,065]

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

In a nutshell.

Which is why so many of the players were sent for one-off operations last year. We were never going to win the flag this year.

Don't think I have ever read such a garbage post in this site.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

In a nutshell.

Which is why so many of the players were sent for one-off operations last year. We were never going to win the flag this year.

I would have thought they went off for operations because they needed them...

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Following on from the above, a genuine question emerges that I'd like to ask the happy-go-luckies around these parts.

There's one obvious trend that has emerged from the last few years regarding inside 50's. Against many top 10 sides over the past three seasons, we have either matched or beaten them in inside 50's yet we've ended up losing the game, sometimes very badly.

What has Goodwin done as far as list approach goes to rectifying this over that period?

What genuine changes has he made?

Anndddd go.

STMJ, surely you've seen since the bye particularly in the last month the players trying to play at a slower tempo and maintain possession a little more.

Problem is very hard to change completely mid season what's engrained and when put under heavy pressure they revert back to what they are accustomed to.

The fast moving bash crash chais football needs older hardened bodies with several pre seasons under the belt  I think we'll see a mix of both as we move forward and the players being capable of adapting to both with more experience at this level

Edited July 24, 2019 by Pennant St Dee

[Little Goffy 14,546]

22 hours ago, leucopogon said:

Sure would have liked Cam Pedersen on the list this year. Stupid decision to delist him.

I agree in general but also kind of accept (what I imagine to be) the reasoning. I'm of the opinion that the club was quite aware of the reality of our list and that we needed to keep turning over players while we look to fill the gaps we have. Unfortunately, Kent and Pederson for example turned out to be players in the kind of roles we could really have used a bit more depth in this year.

Still, would they have realistically been in our 'future premiership 22'? Probably not.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that the club decided to take a calculated risk of a crappy 2019, with their minds fully focused on the proverbial utimate success. All looks like a pile of stinking rags at the moment because every risk we took has simultaneously gone bad for us. I'm sure the club wasn't anticipating this situation and quite likely expected that we'd still hold a spot in finals, but I am also sure that they aren't planning their recruitment and development efforts to 'do pretty good in 2019'.

[Watson11 2,240]

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Following on from the above, a genuine question emerges that I'd like to ask the happy-go-luckies around these parts.

There's one obvious trend that has emerged from the last few years regarding inside 50's. Against many top 10 sides over the past three seasons, we have either matched or beaten them in inside 50's yet we've ended up losing the game, sometimes very badly.

What has Goodwin done as far as list approach goes to rectifying this over that period?

What genuine changes has he made?

Anndddd go.

Sunday was the first I remember that we lost inside 50s and were right in it and would have won bar poor kicking for goal (and great kicking for goal by WC).  The forward 50 look completely different.  I rate Rawlings and hope he is having an impact. Too small a sample so far but good signs.

Our worst losses including this year were both poor inside 50 conversion AND leaking goals at the other end.  Even the prelim was 31 scoring shots from 52 inside 50s to West Coast. Nearly everyone put the weakest link as our defence which obviously the club did too.  Bringing in May and Lever are genuine list changes.

The issues you pointed out re structure around stoppages last year are still popping up and are just a giant fail on the coaching department and players.  Compare to Richmond, who are the best structured team in the comp.  They are just as lacking outside pace and skill as us but they are 10x better structurally and going forward and sit top 4 despite a bad run with injuries.  I don’t buy it is our list.  It can always be improved, but if we had addressed the issues you pointed out and our goal kicking we would be in the 8 now.

 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

On 7/24/2019 at 8:48 AM, praha said:

What stats do you need?

Years without finals since Roos arrived: 5

Years with finals: 1

That one year is an aberration. That's just fact. I'm not saying it as proof that we won't improve or we won't play finals next year. But I'm saying that it is clearly an aberration on a grander scale. You're saying I'm manipulating for the sake of fitting my argument but you're the one saying improvements in win:loss -- not finals -- are the only metric to track improvement. Therefore this year is the aberration. Sure, it is the aberration if we're looking at win:loss in isolation. But I'm looking at finals as the metric. I don't care how many games we win if we're playing finals. If we win 15 one year and finish 4th but win 14 the next year and finish 3rd, I'm not going to chuck a stink because we won fewer games, am I?

Lyon highlights that improvement in won:loss is really only a worthwhile metric if you're coming from a low point. We're beyond that now. Forget about that linear improvement. It's pointless now. Playing finals should be the only metric. Brisband was 0-12 last year and now is suddenly a legitimate flag contender, with finals locked away with 5 rounds to go. We took until round 22 to even start contemplating finals last year. Don't get me started on 2017.

If it makes you feel better than yes this year is the aberration. However you want to look at it. I disagree and think we need to make more substantial changes to turn it around. I am not confident that things will just magically turn around for us next year.

Far out praha. In your previous post you said that it's not arguable that 2019 is an aberration. 

You absolutely are manipulating stats and history to suit your argument. 

I'm not just talking W-L, either. You're the one who started the embarrassing records thread in (IIRC) 2015. Over the 2015-2018 period we struck almost every single one of those records off the book (except, yes, the big one). We grew our membership, we gained stability and at least a degree of professionalism off-field, we continue to sign up our young A-grade (or possible A-grade) players and we've attracted at least some good talent from other clubs.

This year has been shocking in almost all respects, but until we see what 2020 brings I do not agree with your assessment that it's not possible this year was an aberration, and I do not agree with your argument that 2018 being the only season of finals since 2006 indicates it was an aberration given the above context. 

21 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I've said my piece many times over the last two years regarding our list, so @titan_uranus has either missed reading those contributions or hasn't been bothered which is why he believes I haven't provided detail. Not my prob.

I can tell you that it's certainly not the latter. I enjoy reading your contributions when you talk about football.

The two posts you went on to quote were from last year. Forgive me if I either can't recall them or didn't see them at the time.

Unfortunately the overwhelming attitude that comes from you is swipes at people, like the below post, and adoption of a "holier than thou" attitude. It's annoying mainly because your thoughts on the club are interesting, engaging and well-reasoned. But it feels like 95% of your posts are sassy one-liners.

20 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Following on from the above, a genuine question emerges that I'd like to ask the happy-go-luckies around these parts.

There's one obvious trend that has emerged from the last few years regarding inside 50's. Against many top 10 sides over the past three seasons, we have either matched or beaten them in inside 50's yet we've ended up losing the game, sometimes very badly.

What has Goodwin done as far as list approach goes to rectifying this over that period?

What genuine changes has he made?

Anndddd go.

I think the phrase "happy-go-luckies" is as objectionable as the phrase "wrist-slashers". Just because I'm less pessimistic than some people doesn't mean I'm "happy" with 2019, nor that I think we're all good to go for 2020.

My view on our forward half inefficiency is that it's strongly dependent on two key things: lack of marking forwards (meaning our kicks inside 50 aren't getting retained through a mark) and lack of defensive pressure when the ball too often hits the ground (meaning those dropped marks then slingshot straight back out of our forward line).

As to the former, I think we've been badly hurt by TMac's lack of form and I think Goodwin waited too long hoping he'd come good. A similar issue with Weideman. We've then put faith in Hannan to get back to 2018 levels of output and he hasn't either, whether that's a fitness issue or not.

We've also been hurt, I suspect, with J Smith's injury - it looked over the pre-season like we were planning on him playing a third tall role and then that couldn't eventuate.

Getting Fritsch into the forward line was done too late but really should be a standard selection from Goodwin (i.e. it's either forward or the VFL for Fritsch).

As to pressure, we've been badly let down by Spargo and Garlett when each have been in the side and I'm not sure we've done enough to fix that problem.

In terms of preparing for 2020 I want to see us focus on these two things. I want to see a forward line that gets better at marking the ball, with players on proper leads at the ball carrier providing options to our mids (who need to subsequently hit those targets). And I want to see small forwards willing and able to create more opportunities when the ball hits the deck. IMO, even a relatively small improvement in that area will improve our overall form significantly. It will increase shots on goal, increase the percentage of the game spent in our forward half, and decrease the number of pressure-free rebound 50s that our opponents get, which in turn decreases the pressure on our defence (although the acquisition of May, the reintegration of Lever, the improvement of Frost and the removal of OMac from the backline are helping there anyway).

[Mydee 288]

On 7/23/2019 at 10:18 AM, dave said:

Garry Lyon speaks the truth, he’s a died in the wool demon supporter like all of us, what he says comes from the heart. We have been an absolute disgrace this year, to go from where we were last year to dishing out the absolute inane diarrhoea the team is spewing out this year is unforgivable. 

Goodwin has to be given the flick, this year has been the worst coaching performance since Mark Neeld, we have seen the same mistakes made week in week out for 18 weeks and nothing done about it, I’ve never been more angry with this pathetic excuse for a sporting team before, and considering some of the garbage we’ve played over the last 50 years that’s saying something. Pert needs to take Goodwin into his office and stamp his papers, the man is not a coaches [censored]. Get Ratten!! 

Don't agree but pure passion. Good on you

[In Harmes Way 7,783]

On 7/23/2019 at 9:43 AM, Wiseblood said:

You must have magic powers to quote that, seeing as it was deleted.  I'm impressed.

You're not Sun Yang are you Wise? I seem to recall him saying something very close indeed to your post to the pom who wouldn't get up on the podium....

[Red and Blue Flame 187]

On 7/24/2019 at 4:16 PM, stevethemanjordan said:

I've said my piece many times over the last two years regarding our list, so @titan_uranus has either missed reading those contributions or hasn't been bothered which is why he believes I haven't provided detail. Not my prob.

I don't wish to comment on every aspect of the club because in many areas we are doing just fine. I have concerns with our list and as of this year, Goodwin.

For three years, I have always been of the belief that we are a noticeably unbalanced and poorly skilled side compared to most others and therefore very one-dimensional in the way that we play and how we're instructed to play.

Last year in June, I responded to Saty with the post below as he was (as always), taking a very relaxed approach to our losses and just generally toeing the company line.

 

"Here's a question. If the players had 'learnt' from bombing the ball long against stronger sides who apply strong pressure, then we'd have rectified it after round 1 when we beat Geelong 64 to 41 in the inside 50 count yet lost the game by 2 points.

What's your answer? 

Against Hawthorn we won the count 54 to 53 yet lost to them by 67 points. 

Against Richmond and Collingwood we were comprehensively beaten up around the ball being smashed in clearances and possession chains out of stoppages resulting in scores due to opposition heat. We nearly always gave the ball up under pressure. 

Against Port, we smashed them in inside 50's yet lost the game by 10 points. Again. Pressure. 

Like you, I can see a lot of positives within the group and I know there's a lot of growth and potential there with our core group of 23-24 year olds. But unlike you, I'm completely aware that these patterns emerge because of a team deficiency that can only be changed by additions to our squad that will give us a better balance and blend of attributes. "

 

The way that we lose games to disciplined sides is no mystery at all to me. Goodwin has shown a complete lack of flexibility regarding our list and hasn't done nearly enough to address what have become obvious trends in the way we lose games.

 

I also posted this after our queens Birthday loss to Collingwood last year:

 

"I've tried hard not to post since Monday's loss, allowing for some time to view the game on TV, (having been there live) and to watch closely on what went on at the coal face which is where the game was lost. 

First off, it's clear as day that Buckley went to town on the first quarter of the bulldogs game and would have shown his players and said, "look what happens when you pressure Melbourne to this level". Props to him, we couldn't handle it at all and they maintained that level of intensity for the entirety of the game which was impressive.

Why were or levels of intensity and pressure not at theirs given its what we've built our entire brand on? 

Buckley also exposed us in a couple of areas within the midfield. Having a contested heavy, one dimensional midfield group who are all natural ball chasers/inside players can be a double edged sword. When we're on, playing with intensity and most importantly are 'clean' in the contest, we look really good. If the opposition put pressure us at the coal face and nullify Gawn's taps then we look slow and reactionary given the types of players we have playing as half forwards and wings. 

As an example, if you watch Harmes closely in patches when he's on the wing, you'll see how hard he finds it to sit back from the contest and trust that a team mate would win the ball. Some of his efforts when he decided to chase the ball were very poor as he had no impact and it allowed for his opponent to sit back on the outside and become an option in space. Too many times this happened, and Collingwood had a much better spread of midfielders both inside and outside. Sometimes I wonder what instruction is given to players like Harmes and Brayshaw when they play on the wing and or if they're listening? Both players played their under age years as inside mids with Harmes having rests forward. 

Unfortunately at this stage, if the opposition get on top in that area, we don't really seem to have another plan due to our personnel through through the midfield. I noticed Goodwin tried to throw Hogan in there again and for me, that's just clutching at straws as he is not a midfielder and cannot play that position effectively. Watch some of his efforts and you'll see. 

Whilst there are other areas of the ground we can tinker with, like the Vince and Lewis in the same backline conundrum, I thought I'd concentrate on the midfield as it's our strength. 

Bringing Tyson in is not an answer for me. Unless you're taking one of our starting mids out which there's no need yet imo. We need to get back to starting the game with real intensity and being clean with that first possession. Pederson whilst strong in the air, doesn't provide the same defensive pressure as Smith or Weideman. I would bring Smith back in. 

Other than that, keep the same side. The only way we beat Port over there is by playing to our strength and smashing them at the coal face. Oh, and Petracca needs to start in the middle. Needs a rocket. "

 

The way in which we lost to Collingwood^, Hawthorn and Richmond last year were eerily similar to how we lost to West Coast in the Prelim. The same can be said for losses in 2017. There's a trend.

And now this year, with a whole range of other influencing factors such as an extensive injury list, poor off-season pre-season numbers, poor depth and Goodwin playing the same squad with the same personnel lining up in the same positions, we find ourselves sitting 17th on the ladder.

We had a one wood and when it is taken away from us we have absolutely no other way of playing due to the makeup of our list.

It's a real problem. 

Can it be addressed? Obviously. As I've also said many times, this might have been the year we needed for Goodwin to get his wake up call.

Probably one of the better posts on this website.

 

We were always going to be 6-12 this year. Injuries have meant that we are definitely outside of that.

DO NOT underestimate the scarring a prelim final loss like that has. 

Had we lost by a point, different story.

Sides that get belted/completely outplayed in Grand Finals are exactly the same: Port 07...never got back there (and played well above themselves that year). Sydney 2014 - haven't got close since. Adelaide 2017...

[Demonsone 2,037]

Are we the a version of the handbags cats?!

our fragility continues to raise its ugly head 

 

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

On 7/24/2019 at 8:27 PM, Pennant St Dee said:

STMJ, surely you've seen since the bye particularly in the last month the players trying to play at a slower tempo and maintain possession a little more.

Goodwin had the opportunity to change some things over the start of this pre-season.

Over the last month I've seen nothing but the same mistakes being made. That tells me we have a list and system break down. 

Am I still wrist-slashing after tonight? Or are you and your pals finally waking up to the reality that something genuinely stinks? 

Edited July 27, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Goodwin had the opportunity to change some things over the start of this pre-season.

Over the last month I've seen nothing but the same mistakes being made. That tells me we have a list and system break down. 

Am I still wrist-slashing after tonight? Or are you and your pals finally waking up to the reality that something genuinely stinks? 

Brave man STMJ

Didn't have the courage of your convictions until tonight's game to respond 

I agree with the first paragraph, he chose not to bad decision by him and something he very much needs to learn from or he'll be gone next year.

If you can't see game plan changes then I can't help you, I never said anything about them being the finished article or that it meant Goodwin was on the road to becoming Norm Smith 

Nothing changes I'll not make a final call until I see how we respond next season.  

I'll leave you and the other finger pointers to spend the next 4 weeks saying I told you so.

Do I want to win the next 4 games, Yes, but it won't change anything, the season has been a waste and Goodwin and the FD need to rectify things pretty quickly 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

5 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Brave man STMJ

Didn't have the courage of your convictions until tonight's game to respond 

Yeh nah. 

I've been saying it since the beginning of the year actually. 

You might think something like moving Fritsch back into the forward-line is 'changing things up' but the fact that we've been losing games the same way all year tells me not much has changed.

It should tell everyone that. Clearly.