From Prelim To Wooden Spoon?

[Soidee 1,496]

18 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Had a look at who liked this post and laughed.  The wrist slashing committee is patting themselves on the back.  They love it and wallow in it.

Again, as I said in a post I quoted you in earlier that you've ignored, the way you speak about those who actually want to discuss this rationally with you is pretty poor.  I would have thought you're better than that.

Wrist slashing committee?  Hmmm!!   Your words WB.  I suggest the whole football industry has views that are similar to the so called wrist slashers.  There is nothing rational about the MFC and you expect rational on this site?  

[Engorged Onion 10,133]

I don't think it is wise, or accurate to use any other team as a reference point of what can be done, when there are injuries. Because it's difficult to measure what each individual who is injured how they impact on the team dynamics. Further, let alone analysing whom the team comes up against on a particular week with respect to their oppositions own, form, fitness and confidence levels.

We are not a joke, nor are we a laughing stock, that's just language used out of frustration. 

We will come back next year, maybe not to the extent that we want, andwe will improve. Goodwin is a good coach, who is learning... you don't get to a prelim by being a [censored] coach. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Engorged Onion

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Soidee said:

Wrist slashing committee?  Hmmm!!   Your words WB.  I suggest the whole football industry has views that are similar to the so called wrist slashers.  There is nothing rational about the MFC and you expect rational on this site?  

I 'hope' for rational.  You don't often get it, but it's there.

[praha 11,120]

41 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Had a look at who liked this post and laughed.  The wrist slashing committee is patting themselves on the back.  They love it and wallow in it.

Again, as I said in a post I quoted you in earlier that you've ignored, the way you speak about those who actually want to discuss this rationally with you is pretty poor.  I would have thought you're better than that.

I'm frustrated, Wise. I have perhaps unrealistically high standards but those standards are a product of a personally successful career. I lose sleep after one week of missing target at work even if we're at 120% of target for the year. I understand the corporate world is different to the football world but I have worked with professional sporting organisations in the past both locally and abroad, and the application, targetting, tracking, celebration and accountability of KPIs is consistent across the most successful organisations. We keep being told these are being applied at MFC but then I see us lingering near last on the ladder. I can't help but get angry. It's in my blood.

I know there are many variables that have hurt us this year. The reasonable man in me gives a pass to a degree, but I cannot oversee or forget this. The pass is temporary. I have had many mentors over the years. They are always zen-like in their criticism and delegation, a trait I am still trying to learn, to get people to follow me without the use of fear or threat. It's a unique trait to get people to do that. But the consistent theme amongst them is the complete and utter contempt for failure. That's not to say you, or anyone else here that disagrees with me is accepting of failure. Apologies if I have said otherwise. I was wrong. 

I will try to be more accepting and rational in my responses. I am very critical and harsh towards failure. I know we all are. But I've been conditioned in such a way where it's very difficult for me to not see consistently linear growth or stability. The crash this year, from a former business analyst's point of view, tells me we are back at square one, and it will be a long way back. and this is the rare occasion where quick change is actually necessary. fail quickly. this is why round 10 2020 is the cutoff.

[Diamond_Jim 12,357]

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Goodwin is a good coach, who is learning

sorry we are a fifty million dollar a year business.... you don't have learners in charge

That's what being an assistant is for

Edited July 20, 2019 by Diamond_Jim

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, praha said:

I'm frustrated, Wise. I have perhaps unrealistically high standards but those standards are a product of a personally successful career. I lose sleep after one week of missing target at work even if we're at 120% of target for the year. I understand the corporate world is different to the football world but I have worked with professional sporting organisations in the past both locally and abroad, and the application, targetting, tracking, celebration and accountability of KPIs is consistent across the most successful organisations. We keep being told these are being applied at MFC but then I see us lingering near last on the ladder. I can't help but get angry. It's in my blood.

I know there are many variables that have hurt us this year. The reasonable man in me gives a pass to a degree, but I cannot oversee or forget this. The pass is temporary. I have had many mentors over the years. They are always zen-like in their criticism and delegation, a trait I am still trying to learn, to get people to follow me without the use of fear or threat. It's a unique trait to get people to do that. But the consistent theme amongst them is the complete and utter contempt for failure. That's not to say you, or anyone else here that disagrees with me is accepting of failure. Apologies if I have said otherwise. I was wrong. 

I will try to be more accepting and rational in my responses. I am very critical and harsh towards failure. I know we all are. But I've been conditioned in such a way where it's very difficult for me to not see consistently linear growth or stability. The crash this year, from a former business analyst's point of view, tells me we are back at square one, and it will be a long way back. and this is the rare occasion where quick change is actually necessary. fail quickly. this is why round 10 2020 is the cutoff.

Good and fair post, mate. 

With the season the way it is we're far more flippant and cranky with one another, and I get that it is hard to look at things rationally when we're second last on the ladder.

I hate where we're at, and I'm not accepting of it, but I am accepting of the reality of the situation.  As we've both said, there are many variables that have hurt us this year - some avoidable, others right out of our control.  But Goodwin won't escape the criticism if we're in the same position next year.  Our list, even with its gaps to fill, is too good for that.  With Misson out and someone fresh in, I have hope that things change on the injury and fitness front, and this is the first step to a return to where we should be.  Other big decisions need to be made, and I'll be waiting to see how we go about this.  It will shape the next few seasons for us.

 

[bringbackthebiff 649]

Geez I miss the the threads on “what opposition supporters are saying”...

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, bringbackthebiff said:

Geez I miss the the threads on “what opposition supporters are saying”...

This is one...

in another team's forum.

[Tony Tea 2,800]

6 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

“Oh Father Oh Father....The shame....”

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,635]

1 minute ago, Tony Tea said:

 

“ Son under no circumstance must you open this ? door...”

””Ok Father...”

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I 'hope' for rational.  You don't often get it, but it's there.

You hope for 'rational', yet label those who agree with the FACT that our club has some major issues as "wrist slashers". 

Haha. 

Very good. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

You hope for 'rational', yet label those who agree with the FACT that our club has some major issues as "wrist slashers". 

Haha. 

Very good. 

I know.

Cheers.

Stevethemanjorda

n

Also, I had to look up who Steve Jordan is.  I'm assuming it's the drummer.  Looks alright, but he's no Sugarfoot.  

Edited July 20, 2019 by Wiseblood

[Fork 'em 6,940]

Our game plan, disposal and decision making is a disgrace.
Won't be fixed up with a fit list.

[Sir Why You Little 36,635]

Goodwin is going to be working his ring off over Summer, if he wants to repair this mess. 

7 Days a Week. He gets paid handsomely. 

[Pennant St Dee 12,666]

24 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

You hope for 'rational', yet label those who agree with the FACT that our club has some major issues as "wrist slashers". 

Haha. 

Very good. 

It's no different to posters labelling those who are measured in their assessments as "accepting mediocrity."

Which many of the wrist slashers do when asked a general football question 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Pennant St Dee

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

 Looks alright, but he's no Sugarfoot.  

Ha. 

Comparing drummers is like comparing midfielders. Different skill sets. 

Sugarfoot is also great. 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

18 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

It's no different to posters labelling those who are measured in their assessments as "accepting mediocrity."

Which many of the wrist slashers do when asked a general football question 

Accepting mediocrity vs wrist slashing. 

I wonder which is more extreme... 

And what determines 'measured' in this instance? It depends on the perspective one takes. 

Most of these types of threads are statistical, pointing at how god-awful we've been this year. 

They're measured. It's just we have one group who believe that injury is the reason we're 17th vs another who believe there are underlying problems and injury whilst contributing has only further highlighted thoss problems. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[Pennant St Dee 12,666]

5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Accepting mediocrity vs wrist slashing. 

I wonder which is more extreme... 

And what determines 'measured' in this instance? It depends on the perspective one takes. 

Most of these types of threads are statistical, pointing at how god-awful we've been this year. 

They're measured. It's just we have one group who believe that injury is the reason we're 17th vs another who believe there are underlying reasons and injury has only highlighted them.

Anyone using statistics isn't really getting it either.

My eyes tell me we've been awful.

Measured is accepting injuries play a part, blaming the entirety of the drop off on injuries is foolish

There has been a domino effect by a number of factors starting with the last two months of last year.

Talking about previous footy depts is pointless 

Those who claim Roos as a messiah and desperately calling for him back need to accept he wasn't without fault  he chose and anointed Goodwin, he went down the line of recruiting all Bulls over outside run  he focussed on defence taking away attacking flair of players 

I believe we 2 to 3 years away from being regular finals side

[binman 41,963]

4 hours ago, praha said:

But I've been conditioned in such a way where it's very difficult for me to not see consistently linear growth or stability. The crash this year, from a former business analyst's point of view, tells me we are back at square one, and it will be a long way back. and this is the rare occasion where quick change is actually necessary. fail quickly. this is why round 10 2020 is the cutoff.

Good post praha.

A (genuine) question about the above quote. As a former business analyst if you were investing in a company that was is in a notoriously volatile market place, where linear improvement is the exception to the rule would you not caution potential investors to be circumspect about expectations and not panic if in one year things go backward, particularly if mitigating factors conspire against success?

As PJ noted a number of times the AFL is exactly such a market. A shrewd operator, he made a point of cautioning fans  against expecting linear improvement.

I'm really pleased the club has not fallen into the trap of deviating off course or panicky public statements. The fact the club was brave enough to make changes to the coaching set up mid season tells me that they are not afraid of taking remedial action and is a clear message they are focused on continual improvement. This gives me a lot of confidence we are in good hands - and in my life time that has hardly ever been the case at the dees.

The tigers are a terrific example of the importance of heeding PJ's advice. The panic merchants and wrist slashers were in the ascendancy and came hard at the Tiger's executive, board and hardwick. To their eternal credit they held their ground and didn't deviate of course. They put in place the supports and systems hardwick needed, helped him improve and invested in their their FD.

Their reward was a premiership. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by binman

[Ethan Tremblay 30,020]

A steady rebuild under Roos was completely undone in less than a season. Those who agree that we’ll be ‘fine’ next season, apart from hope, what exactly is that being based on?  We’re back to square one. I’m not ‘slashing my wrists’ (horrible phrase by the way), just a realist who’s seen it all before and have seen nothing to suggest we’ll turn it all around by early next season. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[JimmyNurru 17]

I think what Goodwin says of the team fits with recent results. They are improving from earlier games this year, there does not seem to me to be much between a win and a loss. They were close to a win against Dogs who beat Geelong only the week before. Played well for 3 quarters against WEagles. I think the test for the coaching staff will be taking advantage of a high draft pick,  an off season trade period and a greater player depth after a few new players had a run this year. Recent history suggests teams do improve dramatically from one year to the next. 

I think Melbourne have the foundations of a premiership winning team with Gawn and a very solid back half, and will play finals again in the next few years.  

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

I just feel bad for the younger people I know who dared to dream and committed to the guaranteed Grand Final ticket membership package this year. Now they are stuck with it, no matter where Melbourne end up on the ladder, every year. They put their faith in the club when they saw the signs of finally the good times were coming. Little did they know how the club can promise so much and deliver so little. It really is soul destroying for all fans but especially for the younger ones who didn't know any better. Following Melbourne hands you some difficult life lessons. 

I hope there is improvement next year, or there may be many disillusioned young fans, and they are not the kind who bother to fill out member surveys, or let the club know about their dissatisfaction. They just lose interest in the club altogether.

[Pennant St Dee 12,666]

2 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

I just feel bad for the younger people I know who dared to dream and committed to the guaranteed Grand Final ticket membership package this year. Now they are stuck with it, no matter where Melbourne end up on the ladder, every year. They put their faith in the club when they saw the signs of finally the good times were coming. Little did they know how the club can promise so much and deliver so little. 

 

They should have listened to SWYL, apparently he knew we were going to have the season like this as soon as Goodwin spoke after last years Prelim performance.

No doubt with that insight he saved himself the extra $'s by not ticking for the guaranteed GF package 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

7 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Anyone using statistics isn't really getting it either.

My eyes tell me we've been awful.

Measured is accepting injuries play a part, blaming the entirety of the drop off on injuries is foolish

There has been a domino effect by a number of factors starting with the last two months of last year.

Talking about previous footy depts is pointless 

Those who claim Roos as a messiah and desperately calling for him back need to accept he wasn't without fault  he chose and anointed Goodwin, he went down the line of recruiting all Bulls over outside run  he focussed on defence taking away attacking flair of players 

I believe we 2 to 3 years away from being regular finals side

I've said none of those things and I don't hold the view that you're arguing against so this is a pointless exercise. 

[Engorged Onion 10,133]

10 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

sorry we are a fifty million dollar a year business.... you don't have learners in charge

That's what being an assistant is for

Are you saying that  first, second, third, fourth,fifth,sixth etc etc year coaches, don't continue their professional development and evolve?