Round 15 Non MFC Games

[Willmoy1947 4,099]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The closest I could find is: GWS are fuming!

But Fox Footy understands the club is privately fuming that officials blatantly ignored an AFL directive to spend more time getting review calls right...A private memo was sent to score reviewers two weeks ago reminding them they could take as much time as they needed to get decisions right.

I suspect 'officials' there means the umpire who didn't wait. 

Garry Lyon:  "We’ve got two systems in place; if an umpire says yeah, we can review it, then we might spend 45 seconds on it and take our time looking at it and use all the angles in the world. If there’s no review, you’ve got 20 seconds left before we bounce the ball". 

Because the the umpires ignored the 'touched' call there was less time for the mandatory review. 

It is easily fixed.  Central umpire does not bounce the ball until he gets the all clear from the score reviewer. 

Did anyone notice which umpire hurriedly bounced the ball?

Don't forget that i think there has to be some trigger to come from the Media Box, ie Fox, to say that they feel that at some point the ball had been touched . If silence, and there was a fair bit of silence in last night's game while punches were being executed, , and bear in mind there is possibly some network connections between all these parties, it's play on......

[Willmoy1947 4,099]

What about how at the MCG they could only muster one camera view from St Kilda Road to get that head butt incident of Michael Walters. Wonder how the Umpire, who happened to be Five Metres away felt about his word being regarded as drivel. If the head motion went forward and there was contact, it's "c'est la vie"........

[Clintosaurus 7,852]

WWE has more integrity these days. Betting sites have 'results may be scripted' on WWE bouts - this probably should be on the AFL odds. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,227]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Has the AFL introduced a new criteria:  touched 'beyond reasonable doubt'?  Score review

Gil:

"It was reviewed for 40 seconds, the vision using the Hawkeye system which people saw, and they had to make a decision about was that ball touched beyond reasonable doubt..."That's the standard to overturn the decision.

To date I thought the 'standard to overturn' was some evidence of a touch, however slight.  At least that is how it seems to have been implemented.

A new AFL rule invented to justify the outcome they want:  Nothing to see here, walk on...

Edit:  a bit more from Gil:  Gil won't say if decision was right or wrong!

"McLachlan said he had seen the vision but refused to give his own opinion on the call...When asked what the AFL interpretation of the legal concept "beyond reasonable doubt" was, McLachlan deflected".

Gil has no idea how 'beyond reasonable doubt' is to be applied.  Its just more grey; more guesswork; more room for subjective calls!  Amateur hour. 

He's a buffoon and the game has turned to [censored] under his watch. The sooner he's gone and we get someone competent in instead of a dealmaker given the job because of his connections the better off the game will be.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Yeah ... precisely as I outlned.

I have run this past about 50 people in the last few years (since the technology appeared) and the reaction is always the same

"I never thought of that,  good point" (or words to that effect)

These players only really do one thing in their lives and that is to train and play footy

So if my idea hasn't crossed their minds I would be surprised.  The sport is full if cheats and cheating so why not?

No-one's thought of riding unicycles and spinning plates on long sticks while tackling either.

[Lucifers Hero 39,941]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The AFL are becoming a Political entity rather than Football Custodians. 

 

12 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

WWE has more integrity these days. Betting sites have 'results may be scripted' on WWE bouts - this probably should be on the AFL odds. 

This might interest: Why the AFL is bad for Aussie Rules.  It is a long article from 'Roar', (an independent sports website) primarily about how the AFL is damaging aussie rules and its feeder community sport.

Selected extracts:

• What is the AFL? The AFL is certainly not a sport; it’s a competition.
• The AFL is less an organisation that administers a football competition, more a media organisation that produces football content.
• None of [the] levers [to develop narratives] are open to scrutiny and decisions made often take precedence over quaint notions of procedural fairness and natural justice. The AFL can silence competing independent football narratives through cancelling the accreditation of journalists, which it sometimes threatens.
• An emerging perception that the AFL engineers results damages its brand and Australian football.
• The AFL finds problems and fixes them, only to make bigger problems that need fixing.  LOL, so true!!

There is a more in the article. 

No mainstream media outlet is going to print most of the above for fear of reprisals.   One has to ask:  How is the Commission allowing this, now that the conflicted Fitzpatrick is no longer the Chairman. 

The AFL treats the football public like gullible dummies knowing that everyone is powerless to do anything.    Maybe Gill should be known as Comrade McLaughlin - he certainly acts like a dictator; a Machiavellian one at that. 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

• The AFL is less an organisation that administers a football competition, more a media organisation that produces football content.

BANG! Exactly.

Gil is more akin to the producers of Masterchef, the Bachelor, A Current Affair.

You say to producers of those shows "that's staged" or "this can't be good for the participants' health" or "that's abjectly misleading", and they say "what are you talking about? Look at the ratings!!!!!"

Gil has lost control because his understanding of what he is the custodian of is askew.

The goal review is a clown show? "Look at the ratings!"

[Macca 16,982]

40 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

My thoughts are not as far-fetched as what you might think Maysir.  it's just an extension of what lengths players will go to to gain an advantage.  For instance,  did ypu know that putting vaseline on a cricket bat has the effect of nullifying hot spot? Not such a crazy idea hey. 

Speaking of which ...

That whole Bradman,  cricket stump,  golf ball & water tank way of practising could be argued as worlds-best-practice.  Anyone copied it?  The whole idea might have looked quite ridiculous if he wasn't such a successful batsman.

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Macca

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

47 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

WWE has more integrity these days. Betting sites have 'results may be scripted' on WWE bouts - this probably should be on the AFL odds. 

mmm, sadly i have felt that to be accurate for the last 20 years... sometimes more pronounced than others @Clintosaurus

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

49 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

WWE has more integrity these days. Betting sites have 'results may be scripted' on WWE bouts - this probably should be on the AFL odds. 

or maybe "match is an artist's impression of a fair and competently administered game"

[daisycutter 29,617]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

A high quality 4-8k camera running at 1,000 f/ps will give a precise answer as to whether a ball is touched or not. 

It is entirely up to the AFL as to whether they are prepared to spend the money on such technologies, or whether it goes to the AFL Executives as bonuses. 

 

it would certainly make a huge difference, wyl and allow many more accurate decisions

but it is still a 2 dimensional video and unless you have multiple cameras on different angles there will still be some incidents that will be hard to pin down. cricket still has problems with low down catches because of the 2 dimensional aspect 

perhaps multiple technologies (snicko, infrared etc). like in cricket, could be used but expensive, given it could occur in so many different non-fixed positions on the ground  (unlike in cricket or around the goal posts).

[Macca 16,982]

So if a player barely gets a fingernail on the ball then it's touched off the boot?

Only the best technology would show that up but how far do we go?

A simple solution would be that touching the ball has no bearing.  Otherwise,  we're heading for millimetre adjudications once the best technology is used (if it ever happens)

And what about if a player wears gloves and the ball only touches the fabric part of the gloves?

Murky ground ahead. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

it would certainly make a huge difference, wyl and allow many more accurate decisions

but it is still a 2 dimensional video and unless you have multiple cameras on different angles there will still be some incidents that will be hard to pin down. cricket still has problems with low down catches because of the 2 dimensional aspect 

perhaps multiple technologies (snicko, infrared etc). like in cricket, could be used but expensive, given it could occur in so many different non-fixed positions on the ground  (unlike in cricket or around the goal posts).

I am talking multiple  high resolution high speed cameras at every ground. 

Let us see how much integrity the AFL Corporates have. 

I am sure even the Betting Agencies would prefer a correct result.... most of the time

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

This might interest: Why the AFL is bad for Aussie Rules.  It is a long article from 'Roar', (an independent sports website) primarily about how the AFL is damaging aussie rules and its feeder community sport.

Selected extracts:

• What is the AFL? The AFL is certainly not a sport; it’s a competition.
• The AFL is less an organisation that administers a football competition, more a media organisation that produces football content.
• None of [the] levers [to develop narratives] are open to scrutiny and decisions made often take precedence over quaint notions of procedural fairness and natural justice. The AFL can silence competing independent football narratives through cancelling the accreditation of journalists, which it sometimes threatens.
• An emerging perception that the AFL engineers results damages its brand and Australian football.
• The AFL finds problems and fixes them, only to make bigger problems that need fixing.  LOL, so true!!

There is a more in the article. 

No mainstream media outlet is going to print most of the above for fear of reprisals.   One has to ask:  How is the Commission allowing this, now that the conflicted Fitzpatrick is no longer the Chairman. 

The AFL treats the football public like gullible dummies knowing that everyone is powerless to do anything.    Maybe Gill should be known as Comrade McLaughlin - he certainly acts like a dictator; a Machiavellian one at that. 

Very interesting article. Put in words some of the dissatisfaction I have felt about the football for a while now. Our game of Aussie rules has been hijacked by a corporation with delusions of grandeur.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

20 minutes ago, Macca said:

So if a player barely gets a fingernail on the ball then it's touched off the boot?

Only the best technology would show that up but how far do we go?

A simple solution would be that touching the ball has no bearing.  Otherwise,  we're heading for millimetre adjudications once the best technology is used (if it ever happens)

And what about if a player wears gloves and the ball only touches the fabric part of the gloves?

Murky ground ahead. 

No, we want a system that is not ad hoc and is consistently held to. So (as in the cricket) everyone watching can see what information is available, how good that information is, and what decision is made and why. If it's upheld, or overridden, everyone watching knows why. If the video is not sufficient to reverse a decision, everyone can see why provided the same process is followed every time. There will be some oddball situations cropping up here and there but as long as it is adjudicated consistently, people will wear it. (We're not after perfection after all.)

This would work even with the blurry cameras that the AFL are so fond of.

At the minute, it's all typical AFL seat of the pants stuff where no one can work out what the hell they're thinking. The only consistent part of the process is the a.r.s.e covering that comes afterwards.

[monoccular 17,432]

5 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I heard all of Gillian’s Press Conference. 

I found it to be an embarrassment, he really is a shocking Corporate Head. 

The AFL should be funding 4K Cameras at every venue to make the review system work as it should. 

Meanwhile Gillian takes home over $2mill a year. 

The AFL are becoming a Political entity rather than Football Custodians. 

Gil is seriously out of his depth and needs to move on now.  

His reputation will be as seriously tarnished as the game of Australian rules footy and his "brand" AFL.

4 hours ago, Macca said:

Yeah ... precisely as I outlned.

I have run this past about 50 people in the last few years (since the technology appeared) and the reaction is always the same

"I never thought of that,  good point" (or words to that effect)

These players only really do one thing in their lives and that is to train and play footy

So if my idea hasn't crossed their minds I would be surprised.  The sport is full if cheats and cheating so why not?

Maybe our "high performance manager" could turn his hand to teaching this trick: hasn't done too well at the core business.

3 hours ago, willmoy said:

What about how at the MCG they could only muster one camera view from St Kilda Road to get that head butt incident of Michael Walters. Wonder how the Umpire, who happened to be Five Metres away felt about his word being regarded as drivel. If the head motion went forward and there was contact, it's "c'est la vie"........

It would be interesting to monitor communications between the betting agencies and the MRO's office.

[Macca 16,982]

17 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

No, we want a system that is not ad hoc and is consistently held to. So (as in the cricket) everyone watching can see what information is available, how good that information is, and what decision is made and why. If it's upheld, or overridden, everyone watching knows why. If the video is not sufficient to reverse a decision, everyone can see why provided the same process is followed every time. There will be some oddball situations cropping up here and there but as long as it is adjudicated consistently, people will wear it. (We're not after perfection after all.)

This would work even with the blurry cameras that the AFL are so fond of.

At the minute, it's all typical AFL seat of the pants stuff where no one can work out what the hell they're thinking. The only consistent part of the process is the a.r.s.e covering that comes afterwards.

So am I disagreeing with you? No

I just prefer to look at things from a different angle ... adding to the conversation without repeating what numerous others have already said.

I'm also a realist,  a practical thinker and my first port of call is logic.

And logic tells me that the AFL are going to do whatever they like and are pathetic custodians.  And I don't expect anything to change.

To a point where I now barely watch the sport ... I've got better things to do.  AFL isn't even on my radar and I'm only here because of the MFC.  That's it.  I go to our games (or watch on the telly) and sometimes the last 10 minutes of a few other games.

So I'm probably ahead of you with my cynicism Rack-'Em.  Years ahead in fact.  And that is no knock on you either.  You'll catch up with me eventually.  Broaden your horizons and embrace some other sports is a good start.  But you can do whatever you like.

[monoccular 17,432]

Selowood not coping ; frees 1 G, 6 A at quarter time.   Waiting for the instructions to come out at quarter or half time. What odds can I get on Sportsbet on that? ??

Edited June 28, 2019 by monoccular

[rjay 24,950]

The Edge????

Brilliant new AFL technology but did they forget to turn it on?????????

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

Daniel Talia is a spud

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

Get Ablett, inflict hurt....!!!

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am talking multiple  high resolution high speed cameras at every ground. 

Let us see how much integrity the AFL Corporates have. 

I am sure even the Betting Agencies would prefer a correct result.... most of the time

Eggzactly. Look at the cameras of Formula 1, you can see the sweat dripping off a drivers eyebrow at 300kph. How about it AFL. Surely you can go to an end of financial year sale over the weekend?

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

2 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Eggzactly. Look at the cameras of Formula 1, you can see the sweat dripping off a drivers eyebrow at 300kph. How about it AFL. Surely you can go to an end of financial year sale over the weekend?

Yep. Break it down to single Pixels if needed. What they use now are VHS Standard whilst Gillian eats Caviar and Holidays in Hawaii. 

The [censored] has been completely useless. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

Isn’t Cameron Ling quiet. 

 

[doc roet 1,287]

Danger got the pelican wings out again.