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Shaun Smith not happy with Joel's medical treatment.

dazzledavey36
in Melbourne Demons

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Hopefully we do not go near any Collingwood or GWS fitness/medical staff.  they have a much worse record over the past 3-4 years than us. recurring injuries, very long injury lists most years

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    The issue seems to be that he was actually playing whilst injured and whats more and was sent back onto the field when clearly he WAS injured. Whats more it was a meaningless JLT Match. If Shaun is complaining about this aspect then it would appear to be worthy of complaint. If the player was already having groin issues and was returned to the field thus aggravating this injury even more then this is not only poor player management but could also be an OH& S case.

    I was at that game and Joel Smith was clearly injured and still on the field.

    If Shaun is also complaining about his rehab since, then this is another matter for which none of us have any information.

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    3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

    The issue seems to be that he was actually playing whilst injured and whats more and was sent back onto the field when clearly he WAS injured. Whats more it was a meaningless JLT Match. If Shaun is complaining about this aspect then it would appear to be worthy of complaint. If the player was already having groin issues and was returned to the field thus aggravating this injury even more then this is not only poor player management but could also be an OH& S case.

    I was at that game and Joel Smith was clearly injured and still on the field.

    If Shaun is also complaining about his rehab since, then this is another matter for which none of us have any information.

    Many players are injured before and during games. Many carry injuries into games that are still affecting them to some degree. Their parents don’t always whinge about it. It’s part of footy. 

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    20 hours ago, jako13 said:

    I have been wondering for a few years now - why is it that sports/conditiong coaches outrank the Sports Physicians and Physiotherapists at lots of AFL clubs...... who makes the game day decisions about ok or not to play on an injury? the lines have never been so blurred

    The Physicians and Physiotherapists aren't responsible for performance and while they have technical expertise and provide advice are not qualified to assess the risks associated with determining the recovery, conditioning and fitness of players.

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    • Like 1
    1 hour ago, picket fence said:

    The issue seems to be that he was actually playing whilst injured and whats more and was sent back onto the field when clearly he WAS injured. Whats more it was a meaningless JLT Match. If Shaun is complaining about this aspect then it would appear to be worthy of complaint. If the player was already having groin issues and was returned to the field thus aggravating this injury even more then this is not only poor player management but could also be an OH& S case.

    I was at that game and Joel Smith was clearly injured and still on the field.

    If Shaun is also complaining about his rehab since, then this is another matter for which none of us have any information.

    Responsibilty also rests with the player to explain their symptoms and it is possible they did not do this. 

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    1 hour ago, Stormy Dee said:

    Many players are injured before and during games. Many carry injuries into games that are still affecting them to some degree. Their parents don’t always whinge about it. It’s part of footy. 

    Smiths injury was in a meaningless practice match. Why play a player clearly in pain? 

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    1 minute ago, ManDee said:

    Smiths injury was in a meaningless practice match. Why play a player clearly in pain? 

    ... simply,  we should not have.

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    1 minute ago, ManDee said:

    Smiths injury was in a meaningless practice match. Why play a player clearly in pain? 

    I maybe wrong but I recall it being said at the time that they had to manage TMacs load. So essentially they burnt a bloke they thought they could get away with burning rather than TMac.

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    3 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

    I maybe wrong but I recall it being said at the time that they had to manage TMacs load. So essentially they burnt a bloke they thought they could get away with burning rather than TMac.

    It was a practice match!  Play with 4 players for all I care, rest the lot of them. It is not as if the AFL would penalise any team for protecting players health.

    Edit: I can imagine a smart coach with several injured players in a practice match saying to the opposition coach, How do you feel  about playing 16 a side we have a few injuries, happy for you to play a full side but we will be short?

    Edited by ManDee

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    4 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

    I maybe wrong but I recall it being said at the time that they had to manage TMacs load. So essentially they burnt a bloke they thought they could get away with burning rather than TMac.

    And this to me is the most disappointing aspect of this. We took risks with a player who isn’t automatically in our best 22, as if that’s acceptable. 

    I mean if it was a do or die match I would understand, but it was a practice game and we lost! 

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    5 hours ago, chookrat said:

    The Physicians and Physiotherapists aren't responsible for performance and while they have technical expertise and provide advice are not qualified to assess the risks associated with determining the recovery, conditioning and fitness of players.

    I think I just choked on my cornflakes..... that in a nutshell IS their jobs Chookrat. i think you missed my sarcasm.

    In the real world - the person in charge of anything medically related is under the direction of the most senior person, that person has the highest insurance cover and is the one who gets sued if anything goes pearshaped.

    in AFL worlds this has become a very grey area and people are making calls that they aren't necessarily the ones to

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    I’m not sure why Smith is airing his grievance publicly on social media. It just comes across as immature. 

    Edited by Ethan Tremblay

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    58 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

    I’m not sure why Smith is airing his grievance publicly on social media. It just comes across as immature. 

    I agree. I think privately Joel probably wishes his dad had not made his thoughts public. There are better ways to express concern for your son, none of them include tabloids or open SM

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    11 hours ago, jako13 said:

    I think I just choked on my cornflakes..... that in a nutshell IS their jobs Chookrat. i think you missed my sarcasm.

    In the real world - the person in charge of anything medically related is under the direction of the most senior person, that person has the highest insurance cover and is the one who gets sued if anything goes pearshaped.

    in AFL worlds this has become a very grey area and people are making calls that they aren't necessarily the ones to

    Jako (if that is your real name), Dave Misson as Manager Elite Performance is accountable for the fitness and conditioning of our team. The Doctors, Physios, Fitness staff and Specialists outside the club are experts in their field but they are either general (club doctors) or narrow (physios, specialists) in their focus.

    Dave's role is to make risk based decisions which take into account the advice he is given by experts with the fitness, conditioning and fielding a team which can play the way Simon Goodwin wants to play to bring success. While Doctors may have high insurance cover they are not trained or qualified to make these decisions. 

    Interestingly Bruce Reid with the EFC during the doping program came out unscaved despite being the club doctor and probably the best place person to advise on and ensure that harmful substances were not injected into players. When it comes to long term health, e.g. concussion, mental health, doping programs, I believe club doctors should have responsibility and report to the board. For injury management and conditioning the Elite Performance coach is the person. 

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    2 hours ago, chookrat said:

    Jako (if that is your real name), Dave Misson as Manager Elite Performance is accountable for the fitness and conditioning of our team. The Doctors, Physios, Fitness staff and Specialists outside the club are experts in their field but they are either general (club doctors) or narrow (physios, specialists) in their focus.

    Dave's role is to make risk based decisions which take into account the advice he is given by experts with the fitness, conditioning and fielding a team which can play the way Simon Goodwin wants to play to bring success. While Doctors may have high insurance cover they are not trained or qualified to make these decisions. 

    Interestingly Bruce Reid with the EFC during the doping program came out unscaved despite being the club doctor and probably the best place person to advise on and ensure that harmful substances were not injected into players. When it comes to long term health, e.g. concussion, mental health, doping programs, I believe club doctors should have responsibility and report to the board. For injury management and conditioning the Elite Performance coach is the person. 

    The performance coach may have no actual qualifications and may not be registered with any external body accountable to the public. Doctors and physiotherapists are highly trained, educated and are registered with AHPRA. They can be held accountable by the courts of law, the registration boards and even their learned colleges (eg RACS). It’s a very different accountability level. Yes, the performance coach is accountable to the club board but may have very little other responsibility and very little formal training and education.

    Edited by Stormy Dee

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    Did Misson, the Doctor or the Coach send Joel back onto the ground? That is the question and the issue. 

    If the Doctor said don’t and he was overruled, then it is that person we should be discussing.

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    The thing that concerns me the most is it's not just any footy parent criticizing the club, it's a former 100 game AFL player who would know a fair but about injury management considering his own career was plagued with injury. Is he still upset with Melbourne over how his own injuries including several concussions were managed? Will Joel still be at the club next season? A bit to play out here...

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    5 hours ago, Stormy Dee said:

    The performance coach may have no actual qualifications and may not be registered with any external body accountable to the public. Doctors and physiotherapists are highly trained, educated and are registered with AHPRA. They can be held accountable by the courts of law, the registration boards and even their learned colleges (eg RACS). It’s a very different accountability level. Yes, the performance coach is accountable to the club board but may have very little other responsibility and very little formal training and education.

    While this is true the AHPRA and RACS would not care in the slightest whether Joel Smith should have been on the field or not, so such registration is not really relevant to such cases.

    Dave Mission's job would be a much more stressful and difficult job than that of the medicos as he is constantly making risk based judgements that are rarely clear cut.

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