I just want to get this off my chest. 

A Handball is where the ball is held in one hand and propelled the other hand's closed fist.  That's quite important.  It has to be propelled by the fist.  I am sick to death of seeing players brush the ball across their knuckles as they throw it and getting away with it.  I don't care that it's made contact with their fist, it's still a throw.  This is one of the fundamental skills of the game.  Why is it adjudicated so badly? 

Good question. Might get Saty to ask Frosty this week when he goes to visit MFC training.

Likewise the two handed scoop where the fist is somewhere limply behind the ball but the motive power comes from the other hand.

Surely it depends, like elbows to the head, who you are and which team you play for.

Like all things AFL, there is a predetermined pecking order.

Geelong has mastered the “throw”.  Watched the 2nd half v bombers.  Saw at least 15-20 throws.  Commentators call it quick hands !!!

Agree wholeheartedly...but let’s just let this topic slide for another week given Frost’s “handball” from the ground in the last 20 seconds yesterday...?

 

Edited May 5, 20195 yr by Beetle

Hawthorn love the throw... The amount of times they have the ball in the left hand and manage to miraculously fire of a handball perpendicular to the direction that the right hand is coming in..... ?

Guilty Your Honour!

Deep into the last quarter at yesterday's match at the 'G exhibit "T" , timed at approximately 14 minutes and 30 seconds on the Fox Footy re-play. Jack Gunston's 'handpass' to Chad Wingard who went onto to kick the ball which Liam Shields would mark and goal from would make an NFL quarterback blush. The right hand holding onto the ball clearly provided the force to propel it 15 - 20 metres downfield to Wingard. The left hand 'fist' limply accompanied the action. Sam Frost's was in a hotly contested pack situation arms, bodies and ball being flung in multiple directions.  Pleasingly the football gods favoured us.

Edited May 5, 20195 yr by Tarax Club
errant comma

  On 05/05/2019 at 12:43, Tarax Club said:

Guilty Your Honour!

Deep into the last quarter at yesterday's match at the 'G exhibit "T" , timed at approximately 14 minutes and 30 seconds on the Fox Footy re-play. Jack Gunston's 'handpass' to Chad Wingard who went onto to kick the ball which Liam Shields would mark and goal from would make an NFL quarterback blush. The right hand holding onto the ball clearly provided the force to propel it 15 - 20 metres downfield to Wingard. The left hand 'fist' limply accompanied the action. Sam Frost's was in a hotly contested pack situation arms, bodies and ball being flung in multiple directions.  Pleasingly the football gods favoured us.

Yeah the Gunston one was the most visible...

Watching the replay, Frost definitely got away with that one at the end. If Razor was umpiring he would have definitely called it

  On 05/05/2019 at 11:48, low flying Robbo said:

Hawthorn love the throw... The amount of times they have the ball in the left hand and manage to miraculously fire of a handball perpendicular to the direction that the right hand is coming in..... ?

Mastered it ages ago.  The hand holding the ball is used to throw/direct the ball towards the receiver (over the head, around and behind etc) just make sure you follow through (or make it look like you're following through, even after the ball has left the hand holding the ball) with a fist, connect or not it doesn't matter.  The 7 second mark is a great example here from 2013.  A left handed hand ball around the body on the run effectively directing the ball at an angle slightly behind to Buddy.  This isn't the greatest picture and I've seen better front on angles that were shown around the time which clearly show the ball leaving the player's hand which hooks the ball around the corner before an attempt to get a fist to the ball afterwards.

There was one of these (one handed and a very meek late follow through), in the match on Sat in the last quarter by Gunston as mentioned above!!  Resulted in an overlap play and finished in a goal.

My view is the AFL want a fast moving free flowing game to attract more watchers so happy to see the umps slack off with the strict interpretation.  Some umps are a little more strict and observant on it than others but few and far between.

Edited May 5, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

Geelong and Ess were throwing it all day - sometimes quite blatantly.

The same is happening with holding a player when not in possession.  Usually the hold is for a second, let go for a fraction of a second then hold for a second. 

Much fewer frees paid this weekend than earlier rounds.  Suspect the AFL has told umpires to ignore the abvove to keep the game flowing quickly ie the 'optics' of the game.

Fine if umpires are consistent but they aren't.  We benefited from one throw from Frosty but Hawks had a few just outside our square which weren't called.

No-one here seemed to have a problem with it last year when Clarry used it to great effect. 

What about the dropping the ball rule, if you take possession of the ball and don’t dispose of it correctly by hand (apparently you can throw it) or foot and the ball spills out because of a good tackle it’s not a free because the good tackle knocked it out, ffs if you possess the ball it’s your responsibility to maintain and dispose of it correctly. Games changed so much since I played with only 1 umpire running around doing a better job than 3 bozos doing it in today’s game ?

  On 05/05/2019 at 10:07, RalphiusMaximus said:

I just want to get this off my chest. 

A Handball is where the ball is held in one hand and propelled the other hand's closed fist.  That's quite important.  It has to be propelled by the fist.  I am sick to death of seeing players brush the ball across their knuckles as they throw it and getting away with it.  I don't care that it's made contact with their fist, it's still a throw.  This is one of the fundamental skills of the game.  Why is it adjudicated so badly? 

Hawthorn are masters at this illegal handball process. The team is never penalised for it, and so it has become a standard modus operandi. All handball rules and protocols are becoming redundant, rapidly and are exhibited by most of the 'successful' clubs in the AFL.

It seemed to have been an evolution of the over-the-shoulder-backward handball technique and without too much bias, I would like to point out that Clarrie is the only one these days who makes a separate, two-hand propulsion contact on the ball correctly.

In duplicating Clarrie's excellence and speed with handball, clubs feel that the hand is faster than the umpires' eyes - and so get away with throwing/brushing, particularly on the backward execution but also from a kneeling position down low.  

Jordan Lewis - from footy skills learned earlier, elsewhere - is a master at the deceptive but incorrect handball method, as well. Just watch. However, he has been pinged by the green snot goblins a few times since wearing the Red 'n Blue. The old query arises: who are the umpires assisting - particularly if their chips are down at any given moment of a game? Thus, is 'near enough', 'good enough'?

Do we really want to pursue this? It's a fundamental part of Oliver's game. Why would we want to change that?

For many of us who grew up and played in the days when the rule and it's interpretation was strict, the modern technique of allowing players to flick the ball on to a team-mate is frustrating. It's been going for a long-time now although it seems to have got worse as "quick hands"" have become commonplace. Handball or flick ball is the conditioned response of every player who gets the ball and whereas in the old days there may be a maximum of 2 or 3 handballs in any play, there can now be up 6-10 flick balls used, particularly where one team does a ring a ring a rosy out of a congested zone. 

The Cats, Hawks, and Pies seem worse than most, presumably because of their prolific use of flick ball. It seems that some coaches such as those of the 3 teams mentioned exploit the current interpretation of the rule more than others. And this comes down to game plan or game style. 

Players are coached this way so that the the speed of delivery (like the old flick pass of the 1960s) is quick,  which avoids being caught with the ball thereby opening up the offensive play. The very reason why sides like the Dogs and the old Lions used the flick pass in the 1960s was that it was much quicker than conventional handball and players could more easily get rid of the ball when tackled

It drives me mad but it suits the policy of the AFL and it's implementation by umpires to speed up play at any cost and to minimize congestion. 

So a stricter interpretation of the rule is not going to occur. Very rarely do umpires pay a throw unless the ball is scooped out with two hands or thrown out with one hand. Umpires are unlikely to start paying free kicks because they will be doing it all day many times.