1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I would think an aggressive press is unsustainable week after week, far too physically taxing on the players. 

Agree, for 4 quarters, week in week out. Could do it in 2 finals but not 3. 

Wear and tear on players, very taxing over a full game let alone a season. 

I'm glad this has been brought up.  The loss to WCE should have been reviewed MORE than other games to find our why we didn't play the "Melbourne" way.  The apparent choice to ignore what happened that day and treat it as just an off day was crazy. 

4 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Agree, for 4 quarters, week in week out. Could do it in 2 finals but not 3. 

Wear and tear on players, very taxing over a full game let alone a season. 

Yep. You ramp up to it and then ease back, not expect it as a standard each week. 

Anyway this madness is what we have, i watch with interest

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

We didn't ignore it.  Tell me where Goodwin said we ignored it.

This myth is starting to get just as tiresome as our performances on the field.  They didn't do a normal review, but that doesn't mean they didn't review it.  Not only that, Goodwin has said that they reviewed the Grand Final as well and took plenty away from what the Eagles did that day.  

Seriously.  I know the performances have been well, well below par so far this season, but let's stop pedaling this rubbish about how we didn't review the Prelim.  We did.  

'Wise', sometimes you tow the company line like your mate 'sat'...

I truly think the changeover period from Jackson to Pert left a vacuum. That performance, following like performances during the season should have set alarm bells ringing and a full review should have been done.

Not just the game but of the list and entire FD.

Now we've wasted a year and you can guarantee that review will take place at the end of this season if not before.

Edited April 23, 20195 yr by rjay

7 minutes ago, rjay said:

'Wise', sometimes you tow the company line like your mate 'sat'...

I truly think the changeover period from Jackson to Pert left a vacuum. That performance, following like performances during the season should have set alarm bells ringing and a full review should have been done.

Not just the game but of the list and entire FD.

Now we've wasted a year and you can guarantee that review will take place at the end of this season if not before.

We have actually wasted three rjay, we extended Goodwins  contract before a kick of the 2019 season had happened. If a review at the end of 2019 says we have the wrong coach then tough we have him till 2022 and we do not have the resources to pay him out. As for Pert he was too busy with the BS plan to build a ground in Yarra park, pity he was not looking at how we finished 2018.

6 minutes ago, rjay said:

'Wise', sometimes you tow the company line like your mate 'sat'...

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I think I actually engage in some good discussion with others and I've been more than open about my disappointment in how some players approached the off season and their commitment to the season.  I just see our 'malaise' a little differently to others, which is fine.  We all interpret things differently.  To me, I see the issues lying with the fitness of our players and their ability to implement the gameplan as it's intended.  I'm not absconding anyone from our poor start, I just see it as a fitness aspect, with tweaks to our gameplan also being needed.

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Prove to me that we ignored it.  His point is that we didn't do a review of that Prelim Game, when in fact we did, albeit not the usual one we do.

"We didn't play the way we usually play" or "we didn't' bring out game today" 

 

1 hour ago, poita said:

Fully agree with this, and it has been an issue for Goodwin for more than 12 months now. Couple that with his unwillingness to pick a side that in any way combats opposition strengths (namely St Kilda's outside run, and selecting a suitable opponent for Membrey this week), and he is playing a very dangerous game indeed.

That is an interesting one.

I can't recall being surprised by the selection of any Roos team, yet I am often surprised at the Goodwin teams. Not that that means I am right and he is wrong, but rather he seems to often IMO ignore the obvious.

For example if we play against 2 tall key forwards, he might go in with one tall key defender, like against the Saints.

If we are playing a quick side, again like the Saints, he brings in slow players and plays our oldest and slowest  two on the wings, under the new 6-6-6 rules. I find that very surprising.

 

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That is an interesting one.

I can't recall being surprised by the selection of any Roos team, yet I am often surprised at the Goodwin teams. Not that that means I am right and he is wrong, but rather he seems to often IMO ignore the obvious.

For example if we play against 2 tall key forwards, he might go in with one tall key defender, like against the Saints.

If we are playing a quick side, again like the Saints, he brings in slow players and plays our oldest and slowest  two on the wings, under the new 6-6-6 rules. I find that very surprising.

 

You are not alone.

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

You are not alone.

Thought there might be a few of us.

47 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yep. You ramp up to it and then ease back, not expect it as a standard each week. 

Anyway this madness is what we have, i watch with interest

or anguish. 

51 minutes ago, S_T said:

I'm glad this has been brought up.  The loss to WCE should have been reviewed MORE than other games to find our why we didn't play the "Melbourne" way.  The apparent choice to ignore what happened that day and treat it as just an off day was crazy. 

I believe you would find that IT,  has been.

Maybe, not by the players, so much... but the Whole footy-dept would have,  all last Summer.

 

Looks like, unfortunately too injuries, we may get an early pick this Mid-Sason.

17 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That is an interesting one.

I can't recall being surprised by the selection of any Roos team, yet I am often surprised at the Goodwin teams. Not that that means I am right and he is wrong, but rather he seems to often IMO ignore the obvious.

For example if we play against 2 tall key forwards, he might go in with one tall key defender, like against the Saints.

If we are playing a quick side, again like the Saints, he brings in slow players and plays our oldest and slowest  two on the wings, under the new 6-6-6 rules. I find that very surprising.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the general theme of your post, but didn't St Kilda only play one tall forward in Bruce? Membrey is 188 cm, although plays like a tall in that he's a marking forward. Have I missed someone?

Goodwin, from all quarters, is a dedicated student of the game. And of other sports. He traveled widely in the off season in search of one tiny gem from another sport we could import in order to get an edge. Perhaps he should have taken a chunk of time off like Buckley or gone and sat in Hawaii like his predecessor but that's another matter.

To think he didn't personally review the prelim is ridiculous. And if he didn't dig deep into it with the team it would have been because he believed there was a psychological advantage in not doing so - which may have been an error but it's not a matter of arrogance. He has never displayed an attitude anywhere close to arrogance, despite having a huge record of personal achievement.

Another error may have been to plan with the assumption of natural development and a better-drilled team around our plan. Most of us probably thought the same. We are a young team and you can't always plan for injury.  We are getting exposed again for the high margin of error undermining the game-plan and its likely lack of sustainability. In our development toward the end of last season it's not unreasonable to think that the game-plan was beginning to show its worth.

He is certainly stubborn - which can also be framed as persistent and having belief in his self and the programme. Other top coaches have been here before. See Buckley barely a year ago. And if he's not reactive to the opposition, he also learnt that from Paul Roos. Cast your minds back to the Roos era on here - endless complaints of poor game-day coaching, player selection and an inflexible style. For those citing the glory days of Roos' defensive structures please go and look at the facts.

We switched to a forward territory plan. We get scored against more easily but not more heavily. In each of the years since Roos' departure we have conceded less and less. And scored a hell of a lot more. It's frustrating to watch us scored against so easily but the end result is less goals against. A whole lot of people couldn't bare the thought of Roos' dour style when he was incoming, and the game has certainly changed in favour of attack. Goodwin was ahead of the game.

The balance isn't working this year for whatever reasons and scape-goat you which to blame. It occurred last year as well, and Goodwin made adjustments. He has always shown patience - whether you consider that a good trait or bad - and the results have been mixed - but if our club as a whole had acted with more patience throughout the years it would be in a much better state.

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

To me, I see the issues lying with the fitness of our players and their ability to implement the gameplan as it's intended. 

...but it wasn't the issue last year in the prelim.

...and if implementation of the game plan was an issue in the prelim why are the same players on the list.

The only best 22 player we moved on was Hogan and he didn't play in the prelim.

The same problems raised their heads in the pre season games and that tells me the problem is with the FD...

Time for a good look...

1 hour ago, old dee said:

We have actually wasted three rjay, we extended Goodwins  contract before a kick of the 2019 season had happened. If a review at the end of 2019 says we have the wrong coach then tough we have him till 2022 and we do not have the resources to pay him out. As for Pert he was too busy with the BS plan to build a ground in Yarra park, pity he was not looking at how we finished 2018.

'old dee', I don't know whether Goodwin can coach or not.

I think unless a review turned up that he was a hopeless coach, which I doubt it would have then 3 years was probably ok.

edit: or if Clarkson became available...then.

A review might have turned up a need for change in the FD and those he has around him though.

I think this is an issue...

I do know that he is an inexperienced coach and shouldn't be calling the shots about the the personal in the FD.

I think Mahoney is still an inexperienced head of football...I don't like that blend.

With an inexperienced coach we need an experienced head.

It's not Pert's fault re the review, it's just plain bad luck that the changeover happened when we couldn't really afford it.

He was in no position to call a review and is probably doing what any good CEO should do, having a good look at how things work before stamping his authority/brand...

Edited April 23, 20195 yr by rjay

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Scant respect for a game that tore us apart. You believe what you want Wiseboy, it doesn’t bother me

if i was Coach i would have studied every frame of that Preliminary Final with the players. 

Keep wearing those happy glasses

If ypu were a coach, if you are so right ALL THE TIME, on anything to do with the club, why aren't you in a job at a footy club?

6 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

If ypu were a coach, if you are so right ALL THE TIME, on anything to do with the club, why aren't you in a job at a footy club?

I am a shareholder and it is none of your business what i do  

we are 17th after 5 rounds and even though that does not bother you so much, it makes me angry along with quite a few long suffering folks

And yes as an editor of footage, it is very important to know every frame, so yes i would have studied that Preliminary Final very closely with the players to find out why....

Because right now 7 months later the Coach is still none the wiser...

Take a walk old boy

No idea what is happening in the four walls at the club. Maybe they did review, maybe they didn't. We can Only speculate,  either way the results are daggers in the heart of the supporter base so something needs to change quickly.

The only thing we can do is start analysing the top 4 draft prospects in the TAC cup because at this rate that's where we are headed this season.

7 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

In terms of our forward line, what changed over summer?  It seemed to work pretty well most weeks in 2018.

We've lost Hannan and, from the second half of the year, AVB to injury.  We lost Hogan to Freo.  We also have players like Garlett and Spargo out of form, while Melksham and Tom Mac spent a large part of the summer with injuries and their form, especially T Mac's, reflects this.  Our forward line is all over the shop, and while teams seem to have worked us out a little, I think the loss of talent, coupled with the fitness levels and the injuries, has hampered how we function down there.

I know there are supporters who disagree with how I see things, and that's fine.  I haven't denied that the gameplan could have used some tweaks over the summer, but the loss of some key personnel, both on the trade front and injury front, has severely affected what is happening down there.

I think all of the above is true.

I remember last year we were all screaming at the mids to lower your eyes. After they started doing that we began our charge.

We need a lift across the board and unfit/underdone players have brought us undone.

Who knows? We might see a revival like that Adelaide game when Jesse told the boys he had cancer. That was our brand in one game!?

2 hours ago, rjay said:

...but it wasn't the issue last year in the prelim.

...and if implementation of the game plan was an issue in the prelim why are the same players on the list.

The only best 22 player we moved on was Hogan and he didn't play in the prelim.

The same problems raised their heads in the pre season games and that tells me the problem is with the FD...

Time for a good look...

'old dee', I don't know whether Goodwin can coach or not.

I think unless a review turned up that he was a hopeless coach, which I doubt it would have then 3 years was probably ok.

edit: or if Clarkson became available...then.

A review might have turned up a need for change in the FD and those he has around him though.

I think this is an issue...

I do know that he is an inexperienced coach and shouldn't be calling the shots about the the personal in the FD.

I think Mahoney is still an inexperienced head of football...I don't like that blend.

With an inexperienced coach we need an experienced head.

It's not Pert's fault re the review, it's just plain bad luck that the changeover happened when we couldn't really afford it.

He was in no position to call a review and is probably doing what any good CEO should do, having a good look at how things work before stamping his authority/brand...

Difficult to disagree with your view rjay. Like you I don't think any of us know if he can coach or not but with the way things have gone since the prelim loss I am wondering. Saw him on TVs tonight defending Lewis and McCartney. He has firmly attached his wagon to them which one could say was showing loyalty to the troops. But if the form of Lewis and the team continues and the comments about McCartney keep coming he might find himself in a difficult position come August.

Edited April 23, 20195 yr by old dee

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No we didn’t. Goodwin has said 2-3 times the game was not reviewed because it was not the Melbourne brand. 

He considered it a bad day, rather than a lesson to learn from

Silly boy

I believe there is without of doubt they would have looked at it during the pre season in some form or another and that is called a review without making a big deal of it. The FD cannot be that naive. Goody keeps his cards close .  However it is obvious that we haven't the depth to cover and it is hurting us big time. 

We are certainly looking for a high end first rounder. Seems that way. 

Edited April 23, 20195 yr by nosoupforme

1 minute ago, nosoupforme said:

I believe there is without of doubt they would have looked at it during the pre season in some form or another and that is called a review without making a big deal of it. The FD cannot be that naive. Goody keeps his cards close .  However it is obvious that we haven't the depth to cover and it is hurting us big time. 

"I believe".....

Enough said

14 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

I believe there is without of doubt they would have looked at it during the pre season in some form or another and that is called a review without making a big deal of it. The FD cannot be that naive. Goody keeps his cards close .  However it is obvious that we haven't the depth to cover and it is hurting us big time. 

We are certainly looking for a high end first rounder. Seems that way. 

Hope is eternal to many...

"Tell me and I forget.  Teach me and I remember.  Involve me and I learn."  - Benjamin Franklin.

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We did ignore it, we are still playing the same way 7 months later. 

Wake up...

doesn't mean we ignored it. We aren't going to get leg speed over night.