Post Game: Rd 5 v St. Kilda

[DV8 2,271]

3 hours ago, Superunknown said:

Halley’s Comet returns in 2061

ongside the next dees flag

i shall be a merry making 83

Well we missed out in 1986/7... don't hold your breath waiting, for the next time.

[scarlett 247]

8 hours ago, A F said:

See, I don't think this is cause for alarm.

What we have done is recruited players that allow us to control the midfield. That's the first pillar in any great team.

If the game style is shizen though, your hard work at the coal face stands for little.

I truly believe this can be turned around relatively quickly. I'm not convinced it can be turned around in-season, but in 2020, with some new experienced coaches to implement a new system, we can start to properly cash in on our continued midfield dominance. 

We've got a core of oliver, brayshaw, viney, harmes, salem, may, lever, tmac, weid, petracca, gawn. Our setups all over the ground are horrible. I cant see how its players when they are setting up at stoppages allows clear paths for opposition. Positioning would have to be where they're trained to be. Its all or nothing, no defence. and when we do win it, we have been worked out and easy to pressure that quick kick which is turned over for easy un pressured kicks which opens up the high press. But we'll continue doing it and the  players will put in effort for a little bit then fade away.

7 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

AF the ball was coming in at lightning speed with no light brigade (mid field roll back) in sight most of the time.

Hore has had all of 3 matches to settle, two of those in a losing team, and yes missed the mark a few times yesterday but if we were mostly winning right now many would be lauding the FD for snaring such a super prospect down back.  Hore has given us double the ouput of anything Oscar ever produced even on a day out...in a mere 3 matches!

Frosty far from perfect but solid yesterday IMO.  Again the ball was coming in so easily and quickly they were always going to be caught out on occasions and outplayed.

Let's thank our lucky stars we have two tallish defenders with some height and decent closing speed to close down opponents on occasions (vs stationary witches hats) who are also able to provide us with some run and quick movement off HB, so critical in the modern game.

Hore and Frosty both ranked in our top 10 performers yesterday (4th & 9th repsectively) using the average weighted stats i keep.  Not to shabby.

I also have Hore ranked at No.4 for the season overall (early days but nonetheless impressive) and Frosty ranked 18th (a total of 29 players having played so far up to yesterday).

Frostys speed is the reason tgey did stuff a couple up.

 

Its not the 2018 game plan, its a higher more attacking zone, with full attacking setups.

Its obviously been drilled into the players to get it into the 10-25m hotspot, its so frustrating watching capable players 35 to 50M out have time for a shot but look for a short kick to a contest or a dicey handball because he's not in the hotspot.  Sure goodwin looked at the stats and thats where most goals are kicked and accurately, but not when we're outnumbered or turn it over trying to get it there. Take the shot, stop being so predictable!

[dpositive 1,663]

14 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

We have been the whipping boy of many over many decades DB.  The club needs to  ask for an explanation from the head of umpiring if it hasn't already

I have been saying for many years now that the obvious problems with umpiring decisions are affecting our game.

We do not receive any protection for in the back and above the neck contact.We give away the ball for what appear to be identical contact.

We need to ask the umpires what is wrong with our technique.

We do not criticise the umpires but our play and ask them as the true gods of the game how can we be recognised.We show them the inordinate amount of respect they expect and they may treat us more sympathetically.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

17 minutes ago, dpositive said:

I have been saying for many years now that the obvious problems with umpiring decisions are affecting our game.

We do not receive any protection for in the back and above the neck contact.We give away the ball for what appear to be identical contact.

We need to ask the umpires what is wrong with our technique.

We do not criticise the umpires but our play and ask them as the true gods of the game how can we be recognised.We show them the inordinate amount of respect they expect and they may treat us more sympathetically.

Officially we may get a kind response DP but some feelings run deep and are ingrained in people's psyche and hence actions.

In reality i would not be expecting anything different in future from the likes of Razor or Nichols.  Hopefully the ingrained dislike for anyone running around in the  red & blue is limited to those two.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Deesprate 1,324]

20 hours ago, DeeZee said:

It’s either 

A. The Coaching 

B. The players not following the instructions properly.

C. The cattle- No outside run with a lot of ball getters but ordinary ball users.

D. No connection with the forwards 

E. Fitness

F. All of the above

All of the above plus some.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

6 hours ago, scarlett said:

Frostys speed is the reason tgey did stuff a couple up.

Its not the 2018 game plan, its a higher more attacking zone, with full attacking setups.

Its obviously been drilled into the players to get it into the 10-25m hotspot, its so frustrating watching capable players 35 to 50M out have time for a shot but look for a short kick to a contest or a dicey handball because he's not in the hotspot.  Sure goodwin looked at the stats and thats where most goals are kicked and accurately, but not when we're outnumbered or turn it over trying to get it there. Take the shot, stop being so predictable!

The idea is sound but you need to get it into the hands of our best ball users by foot who can hit up targets i50 and who also have a bit of speed/run in them allowing them to find space and steady a little before delivering.  We must make the most of that last kick around the arc when coming inside 50 Scarlett.

Our two most accurate ball users by foot right now are Salem and Fritschkrieg.  Both must be played off either wing & groomed/moulded into that specialist role as the season progresses

Their ability to play it successfully will take time.  This is a must if we are to rescue this season and make something of It and go on to win a premiership during what is a very small window that remains slightly ajar.  They may not be the medium term answer and we might need to recruit one or two specialists.  Hec they might both fail.  But these two are our best options in the short term.  To even consider playing Chunk and/or Lewis through there, at any point in time in any match, beggars belief and one would have to question the sanity of whoever does so.

Of course they will need to be rotated and others will  need to play through there to relieve them while they're on the bench or when needed at times to match up on other opponents for specific roles.  But these are the 2 go to players.  Melksham, Hunt (if he can clean up his disposal) & Harmes as secondaries.  Stretch as a 3rd stringer when needed to cover injuries or we are up against a zippy team like the Aints and higher rotations needed to help keep a fresh set of legs or for match up purposes (height/relative burst speed/ etc).

Fast efficient transition is one of the critical elements in the modern game and has now become even more critical with the introduction of 666.

We fix this area of our game and we fix much of our current woes in my opinion.  We MAKE the opponent start chasing OUR tail (wearing their fresh legs out) a little more and worrying about how THEY are going to match up on us and.close US down...instead of the reverse which is what we are witnessing now.

Playing one or two older fellas off the wing is the elephant in the room and its plain for all to see that this is our most obvious fail, but also our easiest fix, so far this season IMO.  Pure insanity, especially on the G, and if persisted with by Goody, will only end in further weeping and gnashing of teeth within the FD, the club and its supporters/sponsors.

Chunk deep forward, Lewis (if He continues) to HB.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[DeeZee 7,361]

If we don’t win the contested ball, especially at centre bounces our game plan is stuffed.

Opposition have worked out this is our main strength so they put more work into limiting Oliver Viney and Gawns influence , then they get it to the outside quickly and beat us with run and making sure it’s as many uncontested marks as possible.

Been happening since the prelim.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

... and our match committee watches it and murmurs "how do they DO that? Why can't we do that?"

And then ... "how do we STOP them?"

The answer comes back: contest HARDER! Be MORE frantic!

It's the rule-of-thumb definition of insanity. Our physio and support team will have to be replaced with nice men and women with lab coats and clipboards who stroke their chins and say "hmm" a lot.

[Demonsone 2,032]

18 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Paul Roos must be shaking his head privately. Goodwin has effectively hijacked his team, ousted genuine talent in Hogan and Watts. Threw out the defensive structures that Roos instilled and has us back to where we were 4 years ago. It’s simply not good enough. Goodwin is so robotic in his press conferences and seems too stubborn to adapt his game style. Why we signed him for 4 years Ian beyond me. Had one good year. 

Agree with Roos, were has working both ways gone???

Hogan wanted  to go back home so not a club decision.

Watts he continues to frustrate Port in the same ways & turning up underdone.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Demonsone

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

If we don’t win the contested ball, especially at centre bounces our game plan is stuffed.

Opposition have worked out this is our main strength so they put more work into limiting Oliver Viney and Gawns influence , then they get it to the outside quickly and beat us with run and making sure it’s as many uncontested marks as possible.

Been happening since the prelim.

Opp is definitely putting more work into Clarry and similar work as previous years into Viney.

The challenge for them and the FD is to work out how they shake their opponents off more effectively and how we combat the extra attention on these two, as a team.

Structure / personel wise do we have one too many genuine insiders if we include chunk in the mix? (limited time in there now but he's still in it).  More time deep forward pls FD.

Our other issue is the starting 3 in the middle.  Something i haven't taken much notice of this season.  I'm thinking if we are playing more than one genuine insider there (Viney, Chunk, Clarry) then we are doing ourselves a diservice.  Too immobile and too easy for the opp to bare down on and smother resulting in more turnovers?

1 genuine insider max pls.  The other 2 have to come from the likes of Gus / Harmes / Salem (in small doses?) and Tracc (again small doses).  This keeps us a little more agile and adds (in theory) the ability to break away from congestion by foot more often with ball in hand without the potential of turning it over as often when we have 2 or more genuine insiders who tend to flip the ball around alot more by hand.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

12 hours ago, jnrmac said:

He had a good 6 week period.

Yes, about 5-6 weeks, but not on the trot - characterised by 'recoveries' in the nick of time. When the game plans were not working that time, the players themselves changed tack and led a mini-turnaround of successes. Of course, Goodwin in his pressers took the credit without elaborating (as he had so very little to do with it). He spoke instead on matters concerning longer-term successes and the intangibles surrounding the ethos and spirit of the team. These are some of the reasons why I would think an experienced Lewis who, at the sunset of his playing career and footballing capability as a player, would make a good immediate replacement for Goodwin and most of the rest of the coaching entourage. He would most probably also select a handful of his known contacts to assist him in such a role, bringing a relative depth to the conduct of footballing preparation and delivery. This is not change for the sake of change nor is it emergency action in a crisis, it is leaning to a change for considerable improvement where a team is static, overpowered and outplayed. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,132]

18 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

ousted genuine talent in Hogan and Watts.

Give me a spell

[Dr. Gonzo 24,132]

17 hours ago, A F said:

Great post, mate.

Melksham and Petracca are really the only two winners in our forward half beside maybe Preuss, who continually brought the ball to ground yesterday against 4 or 5 opponents. However, I'd be playing Melksham and Petracca across half forward. Their delivery is so far superior to just about anyone else. Melksham lead the comp last year for assists. We need him up the ground, because he's the guy that creates so much of our connection between midfield and forwardline.

Further, when we got our game together in the second quarter against Essendon, it was Petracca and Melksham across half forward (and rotating deep forward to be fair) that were involved in so many of our scoring chains.

We need to work out a way of unclogging our forward half and enabling our forwards space to lead into. Changing a game style that is entirely focused on the forward territory battle will be a start.

Having AVB and Hannan our exacerbates this. They are usually good linkup players across half forward and are strong overhead for all their other faults. I like Petracca across half forward because he is creative enough to set up some plays inside 50. He's not confident kicking for goals (set shot or general play) for whatever reason so put him higher up the field where he can create a link between half back and inside 50.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,132]

16 hours ago, deebug said:

My friends and i were talking about the same thing. 

I would love the club to come out and say what the hell, were you pulling our players up for? But it will be something along the lines. The umpires do a great job, ? Their only human? blah, blah, blah.

 

Its stupid but the fact is our players retaliated and so were being told do it again and I'll reverse the kick. Razor is an a-grade [censored] wanting the spotlight on him but that's the answer we'll receive.

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

If we don’t win the contested ball, especially at centre bounces our game plan is stuffed.

Opposition have worked out this is our main strength so they put more work into limiting Oliver Viney and Gawns influence , then they get it to the outside quickly and beat us with run and making sure it’s as many uncontested marks as possible.

Been happening since the prelim.

Add the 2018 Preliminary Final to this list, where we were goalless at half time

wtf has been done over summer...

[praha 11,228]

The most damning thing about Saturday was that we had a 9 day break vs their 6 day break. They ran us off our feet. If ever there was an indictment on our fitness, gameplan, structure and coaching, then that's it. 

I believe that's what we call, "Doing a Melbourne".

Which Richmond spud will burn us this week?

[DeeZee 7,361]

22 minutes ago, praha said:

The most damning thing about Saturday was that we had a 9 day break vs their 6 day break. They ran us off our feet. If ever there was an indictment on our fitness, gameplan, structure and coaching, then that's it. 

I believe that's what we call, "Doing a Melbourne".

Which Richmond spud will burn us this week?

There’s a lot of things breaking down with us and fitness is one of them 

[pitmaster 3,512]

I share the frustration and disappointment of everyone else here, but I must be the only one who saw some purposeful attempts to use the corridor in the first half. I haven't watched the replay yet (still summoning myself to that) but there were repeated moves where we drove into the corridor with direct low passes. It was in the forward 50 and in goal kicking (petracca, melksham, emac all culpable at different times) where we failed to press our advantage.

There is a system being attempted but we need much better spread up forward to create options for the mids to find targets. StK repeatedly had up to three extras back to pick us off. 

I like the idea on here of putting Hunt on the wing. We also need to include Garlett. Like Preuss, he's coming in at least one week late even if he gets a go against the Tigers but his leg speed is essential. Lockhart also has to come into consideration. Spargo is a no go. In warm up he can kick 45 metres, under pressure in a game he is lucky to make 30 metres, and that's off target. Around goals he is no good.

Petracca needs help from a sports psychologist. He has a kick on him like a mule but he needs to focus on the task of getting foot to ball, not on the intended outcome. Then he won't be such a momentum killer. TMac is just out of sorts. It happens; he'll recover eventually.

The new rules hurt us - our game relies on keeping the ball inside the forward 50 but the licence allowed on kick-ins now makes that task more difficult.

But those of us calling for the coach to show some emotion at press conferences...really? You want him to break down and weep? Shake his head, say "I have no idea what's happening"? On that I disagree. I want serious analytical thought applied to our dilemma, not some mad rant. Mad ranting...that's our job!

[jnrmac 20,053]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Add the 2018 Preliminary Final to this list, where we were goalless at half time

wtf has been done over summer...

Yeah but Goody didn't deem the PF worthy of watching. Its clear other teams watched it though. Pretty obvious how to beat Melbourne.

[Bay Riffin 1,471]

3 hours ago, DeeZee said:

If we don’t win the contested ball, especially at centre bounces our game plan is stuffed.

Opposition have worked out this is our main strength so they put more work into limiting Oliver Viney and Gawns influence , then they get it to the outside quickly and beat us with run and making sure it’s as many uncontested marks as possible.

Been happening since the prelim.

Summed up perfectly. Get it outside and it’s almost [censored] the gate on us. 

Its unconyested passions that kill us. And I was complaining about this when Roos was coach. We have bugger all athletic players.  We need line breakers and outside players. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,955]

11 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Yeah but Goody didn't deem the PF worthy of watching. Its clear other teams watched it though. Pretty obvious how to beat Melbourne.

Yes, which is exactly why Goodwin should be on borrowed time UNLESS he can reinvent his Coaching. 

The arrogance of writing of the Preliminary Final as a “bad day” was just a ridiculous thing to do, to such a club as ours...

[DV8 2,271]

11 hours ago, scarlett said:

its a higher more attacking zone, with full attacking setups.

Its obviously been drilled into the players to get it into the 10-25m hotspot, its so frustrating watching capable players 35 to 50M out have time for a shot but look for a short kick to a contest or a dicey handball because he's not in the hotspot. 

totally agree with this Scarlett.

And the long bomb deep is IMO far too easily defended against us at this stage,  because we lack class and speed inside 40.

 

I prefer a bomb, IF we must... to the 45Mtr area,  so we have players 360 *  around the contest...  Fore, Aft, and laterals... all in space,  thinning the defenders out...  and allowing space for us to move to.

 

.

Edited April 22, 2019 by DV8

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Yeah but Goody didn't deem the PF worthy of watching. 

They didn't do a regular 'play by play' of that game, but Goody has said they still reviewed it, and packaged it up with the first two games as well.  Here is what he said on it: 

“I tried to parcel our finals up into three. We had two really great experiences and one poor one. I certainly didn’t dwell too much on the way we played because it was nothing like the way the Melbourne team plays. But you do reflect on the things in our program we keep addressing and learning from,” he said.

So, to me, this idea he didn't review the game is totally false, and a myth being run by a variety of people here.  Clearly they didn't do their normal review, but did they ignore that game and the outcome entirely?  No.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

"We had two really great experiences and one poor one"

(So, on average, three good experiences.)

♪ We beat Cats
We beat Hawks
But there ain't no way we're ever gonna win flags
Now don't be sad
Coz two of of three ain't bad ♫

[Adam The God 30,112]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Having AVB and Hannan our exacerbates this. They are usually good linkup players across half forward and are strong overhead for all their other faults. I like Petracca across half forward because he is creative enough to set up some plays inside 50. He's not confident kicking for goals (set shot or general play) for whatever reason so put him higher up the field where he can create a link between half back and inside 50.

Yep, agreed. And once he gets creative, he'll eventually get the confidence back in his kicking.