15 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Some are saying rule changes have meant our list is unbalanced. I do not agree, an unbalanced list is an unbalanced list regardless of rules. How do you expect to play the MCG without speedy wingman. Come on, that much has not changed.

The point was the imbalance was foreseeable when we recruited Wagner and Lockhart and we didn't act on it.  The rule changes simply exacerbated the imbalance, in particular lack of wingmen and forward depth. 

Not Nathan Freeman as first option?

Jason Taylor tossed up between him and Salem at the time for pick 9, and he’s had a rotten run of injury at two afl clubs, but has the background to know what is required to make it at afl level

When is the actual ladder order determined - is it immediately prior to the draft or slightly before?

If current positions hold, only North will be picking ahead of us, and it would be reasonable to expect that they’ll go for a tall forward who can impact immediately, whereas we are probably looking for someone with leg speed

4 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Not Nathan Freeman as first option?

Jason Taylor tossed up between him and Salem at the time for pick 9, and he’s had a rotten run of injury at two afl clubs, but has the background to know what is required to make it at afl level

When is the actual ladder order determined - is it immediately prior to the draft or slightly before?

If current positions hold, only North will be picking ahead of us, and it would be reasonable to expect that they’ll go for a tall forward who can impact immediately, whereas we are probably looking for someone with leg speed

Incorrect. If Salem had been taken earlier in the draft we would have drafted Lewis Taylor.

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Incorrect. If Salem had been taken earlier in the draft we would have drafted Lewis Taylor.

i thought lewie taylor was third option behind salem and freeman?

i'm happy to acquiesce to yr thoughts, but i thought he was third cab off the rank

 

9 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i thought lewie taylor was third option behind salem and freeman?

i'm happy to acquiesce to yr thoughts, but i thought he was third cab off the rank

 

The club went cold on Freeman. They were fans of Taylor as he had spent some time with us during the AIS program. Roos was very big on the left footed Salem as he thought he he was versatile enough to play back, forward, or mid. I think he made early comparisons to Jarred McVeigh from Sydney as someone who could really set up across half back.

ah, righto

well, look, no matter what happens, we're gonna have an 'early' pick in this mid-season fiasco...no wonder the sanfl / wafl / vfl clubs are huffing and puffing about it

Whatever the talent that might be available at the mid-season draft, we certainly have to use it to fill our list.  Not just for this year, but we will have too many holes which will need to be filled at year end.

Lewis and Jones probably not around again. 

Garlett, JKH, Maynard, Baker, ANB, Stretch, Keilty (R), T.Smith (R), J Wagner, all out of contract, most of whom cannot get a game. And I'm assuming Frost, Weidemann, Salem are renewed.

11 players. 

Edited April 23, 20195 yr by george_on_the_outer

On 4/22/2019 at 9:01 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fristly, thanks for the info - good to have such insight.

It can't be new news to the club that our list is unbalanced and largely one-dimensional.  Wondering, why would we not have gone for one of those with our last pick instead of taking Lockhart a month ago.  Not a knock on Lockhart but we need someone like O'Reilly, Pickett, Saad, Lowson more than we need another small contested ball midfielder type.

FWD depth and a speedy type would be great to have right now.  We could have also taken one of those with the pick we used for Wagner in the special preseason draft.

Don’t underestimate what a few weeks of additional form and a preseason can de for players reputations!!! It adds a stack of bankable data - AFL is a league where question marks become contagious and players get overlooked universally! 

On 4/22/2019 at 3:26 AM, whatwhatsaywhat said:

ah, righto

well, look, no matter what happens, we're gonna have an 'early' pick in this mid-season fiasco...no wonder the sanfl / wafl / vfl clubs are huffing and puffing about it

Here is an AFL Midseason-draft article.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-07/midseason-draft-when-is-it-and-how-will-it-work

And here is the current AFL Injury List.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/injury-list

If Jones and Lewis retire, can we get extra picks?

We might finally get that pick 1 we’ve been craving!

Blues and roos eye Coburg forward

The season is shot, can we please just find the most exciting player possible from anywhere in the country.

If we arent playing finals id like to watch an A.Jakovich/Jurrah/Farmer type excitement machine running around for is the 2nd half of the season.

Our team is so bloody boring.

 

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Petraccattack

.

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

On 4/22/2019 at 9:01 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fristly, thanks for the info - good to have such insight.

It can't be new news to the club that our list is unbalanced and largely one-dimensional.  Wondering, why would we not have gone for one of those with our last pick instead of taking Lockhart a month ago.  Not a knock on Lockhart but we need someone like O'Reilly, Pickett, Saad, Lowson more than we need another small contested ball midfielder type.

FWD depth and a speedy type would be great to have right now.  We could have also taken one of those with the pick we used for Wagner in the special preseason draft.

LH what if that isn't the case and the FD (or some/many/the few most important!??) aren't seeing it that way?

Surely the proof of the pudding here is in the eating as they say.  Shouldn't we be judging their cred more on their picks so far vs what 'we/some think' they should be doing?

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

So we have one spot open? Best case scenario, we plug one of our many many holes.

Guess it's better than nothing but I'm not looking for this to change our fortunes.

Gutsy leadership from Lewis at this point is not playing on but flagging his retirement game against the Hawks so we can free up a list space to take a punt on a kid. Pace Pace Pace is what we need, some frenetic youthful energy to spark up the joint. Bring in a freakish indigenous lad from the top end and just give him a crack. Got nothing to lose and much to gain.

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Matsuo Basho

38 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

LH what if that isn't the case and the FD (or some/many/the few most important!??) aren't seeing it that way?

Surely the proof of the pudding here is in the eating as they say.  Shouldn't we be judging their cred more on their picks so far vs what 'we/some think' they should be doing?

Quite right -the FD didn't think it was unbalanced during the off season otherwise they wouldn't have chosen Wagner and Lockhart who were duplicates of other like players.  They could have taken one of the players on Nudge's list of players of interest to mfc:  mainly speedy players (of which we have few) and a tall fwd or two (which we need even if only for depth).  Nudge's list suggested a rethink of the type of player our list needs.

I'm not sure what to say about your last sentence.  There are many threads on this board that judge picks so far (its a favourite sport on DL) and hypothesise on what should/could have been.  I rarely comment on specific picks (what do I know about drafting).  But to my mind we have too many of one type (contested beast)  player, a dearth of skills and more mid-sized players than most teams ie unbalanced.  But my view means zilch to anyone else.

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

I'm finding the whole process really exciting.  There's been some good players taken from the state leagues for this season and some absolute rippers over the past decade.  This should be a good opportunity to add some unrecognised talent, form and hunger to our list.

On 4/17/2019 at 11:59 AM, Cards13 said:

Mick Warner the old Essendon 0/300 analogy during the doping hearing. What a toss a

If only he'd added 'but after an incredible collapse ended up all out for 365' it would've made sense.

1 hour ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Gutsy leadership from Lewis at this point is not playing on but flagging his retirement game against the Hawks so we can free up a list space to take a punt on a kid. Pace Pace Pace is what we need, some frenetic youthful energy to spark up the joint. Bring in a freakish indigenous lad from the top end and just give him a crack. Got nothing to lose and much to gain.

Range Rover:

"Lewis must retire vs Hawks!"

"Recruit Patton at all costs!"

10 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Range Rover:

"Lewis must retire vs Hawks!"

"Recruit Patton at all costs!"

??

Here's Lewis' response to that suggestion

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Moonshadow

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Quite right -the FD didn't think it was unbalanced during the off season otherwise they wouldn't have chosen Wagner and Lockhart who were duplicates of other like players.  They could have taken one of the players on Nudge's list of players of interest to mfc:  mainly speedy players (of which we have few) and a tall fwd or two (which we need even if only for depth).  Nudge's list suggested a rethink of the type of player our list needs.

I'm not sure what to say about your last sentence.  There are many threads on this board that have been judging the picks so far - a favourite sport on DL and hypothesise on what should/could have been.  I rarely comment on specific picks (what do I know about drafting).  But to my mind we have too many of one type (contested beast)  player, a dearth of skills and more mid-sized players than most teams ie unbalanced.  But my view means zilch to anyone else.

That may be the case but that doesn't mean you aren't close to the mark LH.

If i may also add my amature view to the over abundance of mid size player view/comment.

IMHO that over balance is also bereft of 'off the line burst speed and agility/evasive skills'.  All very one paced and straight ahead often leading to over use of handball instead of a balance, using more burst/evade into space with legs / run > resulting in a little more efficient disposal/finish skills, especially the ability to escape opponent and steady to hit up inside 50.  Instead we are in tight congested space and finding ourselves using the shallow bail out far too often under pressure or 'perceived' pressure.

Also does that imbalance then pressure us into overuse of handball which then lends itself to a self fulfilling game style that invokes more panicy handballs in close as players are generally closer to the contest, unable to work their way into space on opponent, especially space forward offering a forward release handball to gain yardage quickly vs mostly lateral or behind?  Forward handballs more likely to start the overlap and run vs alternatives?  At the mo we just dont link up / overlap / run often enough using this method.  Result...too easy to defend > increased turnovers.  Scored off more often as a result & less scoring from stoppages for us?

The Cats seem very adept at doing this when they have their balance right and are in good form.  Many teams unable to counter it effectively or for long enough during a match to win the tug of war.

This wouldn't be so bad if we had a top liner CHF who could monster contested grabs or get ball to small crumbed.  Having none of the either also doesn't help our inbalance/game style from mid field.

Is this making us easier to cover and defend on the stoppage outlets?  Most other teams, starting with the prelim Eagles (and a few lessor lights during last season who weren't quite as adept) have now worked us out?

The data shows we are still up there with contested and clearances, only dropping off a little in clearance post the Tigers.

However it might also be the improved pressure from the opp / their ability to easily close off and disrupt our outlets at stoppage due to our inbalance, causing the quality of those clearances to fall away vs last season.

More turnovers as a result back to the opp.  That weight of numbers sees them win their fair/equal share.  Sees us chasing more often v last season.  They are then able to clear/finish even more as they are fresher than us as the game wears on.  Our guys still doing similar 'work' on the inside to last season but the finish more muddy and cruddy in quality?

Having some real quality wingers to me is a 'partial' short term fix and at least 1 insanely evasive / burst speed insider (think Shiels / Ablett type...wishful thinking!).

As a result of our inbalance the Opp in most cases (not all, at least those that have a quick / cleanish outside crew mopping up) win the inside / outside tug of war battle.

In most cases we dont.

Couple this with two key forwards who have had zero impact and aren't taking marks i50, especially contested, plus zero small speedy crumbers to mop and chase down/pressure.

Our woes potentially fixable but also not,  if ignored and allowed to fester.

Are they only fixable via future clever draft/trades?  On the surface it would appear that way for mine.

If so the next question for me is how many drafts etc and what time line are we looking at till we balance out?

Edited April 29, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

41 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

bereft of 'off the line burst speed and agility/evasive skills'.  All very one paced and straight ahead often leading to over use of handball instead of a balance, using more burst/evade into space using legs / run > resulting in a little more efficient disposal/finish skills, especially the ability to escape opponent and steady to hit up inside 50.  Instead we are in tight  congested space and finding ourselves using the shallow bail out far too often under pressure or 'perceived' pressure.

Also does that inbalance then pressure us into overuse of handball which then lends itself to a self fulfilling game style that invokes more panicy handballs in close as players are generally closer to the contest, unable to work their way into space on opponent, especially space forward offering a forward release handball to gain yardage quickly vs mostly lateral or behind? 

^^^