Welcome Back to the Bottom of the Ladder

[dazzledavey36 54,951]

21 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Max Gawn penned a good article today in the Herald Sun. Pretty sure it’s behind a pay wall though.

He basically said that being unfit is a myth and a lot of the players hit PBs in pre-season time trials.

The team knew there were no guarantees about playing finals again and knew they had to go again (so it’s not a bath water thing)

Basically said we haven’t improved our defence as a team while other teams have over the off season.

I read the article.

Im sure Gawn was trying to show good intentions, but [censored] hell.. at the end he says "We will show actions " ?‍♂️?‍♂️

FMD...

Edited April 28, 2019 by dazzledavey36

[SPC 3,551]

Severely overrated list..

severely overstated leaders..

Severely underwhelming coach

Severely incompetent coaching panel

Severely restless membership base..

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

2 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Seems as good a place as any to post some of Max’s article from the HS:

"The truth is, we knew there were no guarantees.

We knew that just because we made a preliminary final last year didn’t mean we were going to cruise through this season.

We knew that we couldn’t automatically pick up where we left off.

We knew that every year that teams improve.

But what we didn’t know was that we would be 1-5. This isn’t the start anyone wants.

Losing hurts. It hurts even after you’ve won 21 in a row.

I was drafted in 2009 in perhaps the most unsuccessful era in Demons history. Yet somewhere, somehow, I fell in love with the red and blue. I am an avid Demon supporter. I hurt when you hurt, I celebrate when you celebrate and I will listen to your feedback when things aren’t on track.

What hurts the most is the fact we are just not playing the way we know we can.

We have somehow gone away from playing a brand of footy that we started building since 2015.

The players are hurting, the coaches are hurting, the staff and volunteers are hurting, friends and family are hurting and most of all you guys, the Demon faithful, are hurting. But we aren’t quitting; there is no way that we will quit.

This theory about us not being fit enough is a myth. Along with most teams across the competition, we had the majority of our group, including myself, post PB’s in our pre season time trial.

Yes, we had some key personnel out after surgery, but so does every team. It’s on those guys to get back to the fitness required, which they did.

--------------------

It concerns me that he thinks the problem is a defensive one when we have a forward six who can’t buy goals for love nor money. 

We sold the farm to get Lever and May. Look no further for the issues in that part of the ground. 

Forward of centre however the problems are very real. There are personnel issues there that must be solved!

Edited April 28, 2019 by Grapeviney

[Adam The God 30,271]

It's pretty clear that the players and coaches have no idea why we're not winning. Gawn is still banging on about defence. Yeah, it'd help us if we were better defensively, but what's killing us is our forward connection and our ability to hit the scoreboard. It worries me that he and the rest of the coaching staff apparently don't see this.

We're second for clearances and CPs and third for tackles inside 50, but last for efficiency inside 50 and DE. So it's blatantly obvious that if we were more efficient in our attack, this would cover our weaker defence (as it did in 2017 and 2018). Further, if you're attacking, it means the other team can't.

Whatsmore, scoreboard pressure seems to be a dangerously underrated factor here. Whenever we fail to convert our forward half dominance and eventually leak a goal out the back, it's like a psychological knife through our hearts.

Are coaches and players on the same page here? It seems Goodwin is saying it's forward connection and Gawn, the representative for the players, is saying it's defence.

[praha 11,240]

59 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

The % is such a concern, can’t kick goals and sooooooo easy to rebound and score against. 

I hope it is the best 10 days of Goodys coaching career between games. 

This is what a lot of people are also combing over. We're not last, 1-6, with a decent % in the 75%+ range. We are last with another 8-9 goal loss away from being sub-60%. Our % atm is a massive concern, and a true reflection of where we are at. Anyone thinking we can bounce back is delusional. We absolutely must start looking towards 2020 now.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

6 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

It concerns me that he thinks the problem is a defensive one when we have a forward six who can’t buy goals for love nor money. 

We sold the farm to get Lever and May. Look no further for the issues in that part of the ground. 

Forward of centre however the problems are very real. There are personnel issues there that must be solved!

We would have lost all of those matches if we had Lever and May in the team.  In fact the one match that May played was our biggest defeat of the season.

Modern AFL is about team defence and that is what we are currently not doing well enough.  

We aren’t locking the ball into our forward 50 and the opposition is clearing it without pressure or harassment.  

We aren’t pressuring the opposition ball carrier delivering it into their 50.  They have time and space to select an option and deliver to their advantage.

We aren’t filling our defensive 50 with numbers to man-up, then our number their forwards.  One on ones at best; rarely a third man up or an intercept mark.

Ayres, Doull, Scarlett and Jakovich couldn’t defend alongside our team defence.

[praha 11,240]

2 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Seems as good a place as any to post some of Max’s article from the HS:

"The truth is, we knew there were no guarantees.

We knew that just because we made a preliminary final last year didn’t mean we were going to cruise through this season.

We knew that we couldn’t automatically pick up where we left off.

We knew that every year that teams improve.

But what we didn’t know was that we would be 1-5. This isn’t the start anyone wants.

Losing hurts. It hurts even after you’ve won 21 in a row.

I was drafted in 2009 in perhaps the most unsuccessful era in Demons history. Yet somewhere, somehow, I fell in love with the red and blue. I am an avid Demon supporter. I hurt when you hurt, I celebrate when you celebrate and I will listen to your feedback when things aren’t on track.

What hurts the most is the fact we are just not playing the way we know we can.

We have somehow gone away from playing a brand of footy that we started building since 2015.

The players are hurting, the coaches are hurting, the staff and volunteers are hurting, friends and family are hurting and most of all you guys, the Demon faithful, are hurting. But we aren’t quitting; there is no way that we will quit.

This theory about us not being fit enough is a myth. Along with most teams across the competition, we had the majority of our group, including myself, post PB’s in our pre season time trial.

Yes, we had some key personnel out after surgery, but so does every team. It’s on those guys to get back to the fitness required, which they did.

 

Reading this actually makes me more concerned. The whole "we don't know where we are going wrong, but we're struggling defensively" is a major concern. Obviously you're struggling defensively if the opposition is scoring against you the way they are. But this isn't a team with a 20-year-old as captain. Why do the likes of Jones, Viney, McDonald, Garlett, Petracca, Oliver and co., need to be given a lesson in defensive accountability from a kid like Spargo, who appears to be the only true two-way runner in the side? We then punish him because he doesn't get a kick or lay enough tackles, only to replace him with the defensively inept Garlett, whose throw-one-arm-out-and-then-stop-running defensive prowess feels right at home in a bottom-placed side. Does anyone find it interesting that, in the weeks we've had Spargo in the side we're league leaders in tackles inside 50, and the week we bring Garlett in we get absolutely embarrassed in this stat? 

Defensively accountability isn't structural, or coaching, or personnel. This team is failing harder than I think anyone could have predicted in the most important area of the sport. People attack the likes of Oscar and Frost on a weekly basis. How is it their fault the opposition is getting uncontested kicks to one-on-one contests, time and time again? Gawn even mentions this. 

Our engine room is winning the ball, but it reminds me of my piece of [censored] Jeep. Sure, it's getting us from point A to point B, but the ride is uncomfortable, gritty, and just unenjoyable. Once there's a bit of a climb up a hill, forget about it! But a straight road? Eassssssy sailing. 

I'd be okay with us finishing last if it meant defensive spuds like Garlett, ANB and Stretch languish in the VFL until they understand defensive fundamentals. Petracca and 650kei-deman can join them until they start learning how to run both ways.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Grapeviney

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

11 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

We would have lost all of those matches if we had Lever and May in the team.  In fact the one match that May played was our biggest defeat of the season.

Modern AFL is about team defence and that is what we are currently not doing well enough.  

We aren’t locking the ball into our forward 50 and the opposition is clearing it without pressure or harassment.  

We aren’t pressuring the opposition ball carrier delivering it into their 50.  They have time and space to select an option and deliver to their advantage.

We aren’t filling our defensive 50 with numbers to man-up, then our number their forwards.  One on ones at best; rarely a third man up or an intercept mark.

Ayres, Doull, Scarlett and Jakovich couldn’t defend alongside our team defence.

Disagree. A fit Lever and May changes the whole complexion of the backline and the side in general. Last line players and flankers walk taller and play with more confidence when the pillars in defence are rock solid. 

Without a decent spine in a football team the whole organism turns to jelly. As we are now witnessing. 

Key forward is therefore right now our biggest and most pressing concern. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Matsuo Basho

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

The gameplan has been suspect all along.Last year we lucked out on it and probably few of our opponents respected it thus allowing us to play on our own terms.

This year as many have said the opposition have unpicked the gameplan and we are seeing the result.

[Adam The God 30,271]

Just now, Diamond_Jim said:

The gameplan has been suspect all along.Last year we lucked out on it and probably few of our opponents respected it thus allowing us to play on our own terms.

This year as many have said the opposition have unpicked the gameplan and we are seeing the result.

Last year we converted more chances and were better structured in our forward half and we hit targets inside. Now that we're not converting our midfield dominance and failing to put scoreboard pressure on, we're losing games. As simple as that.

Having said that, I agree with your call RE game plan having always been suspect. I'm over it and we need to adjust.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

17 minutes ago, A F said:

Last year we converted more chances and were better structured in our forward half and we hit targets inside. Now that we're not converting our midfield dominance and failing to put scoreboard pressure on, we're losing games. As simple as that.

Having said that, I agree with your call RE game plan having always been suspect. I'm over it and we need to adjust.

You’re right with your earlier call AF about it being a ‘dagger through the heart’ and just psychologically deflating to see attacks repelled with such ease in our forward 50. 

Any midfield group is going to subliminally drop off if they keep pumping the prune down there with nothing to show for all the hard work. 

Our forward line is just diabolical. 

[Adam The God 30,271]

3 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Our forward line is just diabolical. 

Unfortunately, it's not just our forwardline. Our midfield is culpable for the poor delivery too.

[Demons11 7,030]

4 hours ago, praha said:

As I mentioned in another thread. 

Lewis, Jones, Viney, Gawn, in particular, Hibberd, Jetta and TMac should be embarrassed. 

I think what we are seeing now is a trend. Dating back to the Prelim. 8 weeks now of garbage. 

That tells me we are looking at a bottom 4 finish, potentially last. Very harsh reality.

Does this mean the Roos rebuild was a failure? What does it mean of Goodwin?

We absolutely need to start looking at 2020 and beyond rather than salvaging this year as fans. We will surely win some games but it's astonishing how far we have fallen. 

I've said it once and I'll say it again: so long as we have players from the Geelong 186 era on our list, we will disappoint and falter. Perennial losers.

After all the issues we have had in the past around giving up on seasons, it astonishes me that individuals on here can even think that.  We are going badly but to say after 6 rounds to give up is just stupidity. 

We have been given marquee games ‘this season and it’s even more important now that we build into the season and win as many games as possible for supporters and sponsors alike. 

More importantly if we continue on the sane directory we will be back to playing Sunday arvo footy all year again and there is an argument to say that we shouldn’t be gifted queens b’day and Anzac eve games. 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 minute ago, A F said:

Unfortunately, it's not just our forwardline. Our midfield is culpable for the poor delivery too.

No doubt. The need to recruit outside class is beyond obvious. Need a Jack Martin type delivering it to Weideman as opposed to a Jack Viney. 

Let the bulls get the thing. Leave the silk to others. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Speed on the Wings...who can kick to a moving target...

[bringbackthebiff 654]

1 hour ago, SPC said:

Severely overrated list..

severely overstated leaders..

Severely underwhelming coach

Severely incompetent coaching panel

Severely restless membership base..

 

Out of interest - did you post a similar comment at the end of last year?

[dl4e 5,851]

When it comes to our defence the basics of the game are not there. They do not pick up their men. We now have to go back to this basic rule and start from there. We need pace in the midfield. Where possible I would have Frost and Hunt as our wingmen. Our forwards can't mark the bloody ball ????

Where else shoould I start.

[old dee 23,792]

6 minutes ago, dl4e said:

When it comes to our defence the basics of the game are not there. They do not pick up their men. We now have to go back to this basic rule and start from there. We need pace in the midfield. Where possible I would have Frost and Hunt as our wingmen. Our forwards can't mark the bloody ball ????

Where else shoould I start.

That will do for a start against the Hawks.

[Neil Crompton 5,563]

1 hour ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Disagree. A fit Lever and May changes the whole complexion of the backline and the side in general. Last line players and flankers walk taller and play with more confidence when the pillars in defense are rock solid. 

Without a decent spine in a football team the whole organism turns to jelly. As we are now witnessing. 

Key forward is therefore right now our biggest and most pressing concern. 

Disagree totally. Our forwards are not the major problem - its the delivery from our mids into the forward line that is the disgrace.The best key forwards in the league wouldn't get a kick with the way we deliver the pill. 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Disagree totally. Our forwards are not the major problem - its the delivery from our mids into the forward line that is the disgrace.The best key forwards in the league wouldn't get a kick with the way we deliver the pill. 

It’s both. 

[Ugottobekidding 1,188]

10 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Disagree totally. Our forwards are not the major problem - its the delivery from our mids into the forward line that is the disgrace.The best key forwards in the league wouldn't get a kick with the way we deliver the pill. 

But it is, i watched the replay of the richmond game, pretty much saw Weideman give up at most contests arround a ball up. If i was the coach, i would tell him to line up someone and take them out, cop the suspension and come back to the game with a taste for physical pressure.

[Skin Deeamond 339]

2 hours ago, A F said:

It's pretty clear that the players and coaches have no idea why we're not winning. Gawn is still banging on about defence. Yeah, it'd help us if we were better defensively, but what's killing us is our forward connection and our ability to hit the scoreboard. It worries me that he and the rest of the coaching staff apparently don't see this.

We're second for clearances and CPs and third for tackles inside 50, but last for efficiency inside 50 and DE. So it's blatantly obvious that if we were more efficient in our attack, this would cover our weaker defence (as it did in 2017 and 2018). Further, if you're attacking, it means the other team can't.

Whatsmore, scoreboard pressure seems to be a dangerously underrated factor here. Whenever we fail to convert our forward half dominance and eventually leak a goal out the back, it's like a psychological knife through our hearts.

Are coaches and players on the same page here? It seems Goodwin is saying it's forward connection and Gawn, the representative for the players, is saying it's defence.

To be fair I think they’re talking about defence in a broad sense, to include tackling in the forward line and elsewhere, manning up all over the ground, not letting opposition players spread and run free, not just backline traditional defence.

[Neil Crompton 5,563]

42 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

It’s both. 

I think you will find that if we fix our disposal entering the forward 50, then our forwards will improve no end.

Fix one, you fix the other. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,888]

2 hours ago, A F said:

Are coaches and players on the same page here? It seems Goodwin is saying it's forward connection and Gawn, the representative for the players, is saying it's defence.

And, Lewis said, on AFL 360, that it was the way we play...

The three leaders give different views makes them and the club look silly...right hand/left hand stuff. 

Are players getting 3 lots of mixed messages?  Players don't seem on the same page during games.

Hope our media folk start a process of the getting the football dept to agree a script each week and then they all sing from the same song book.  This isn't a time for personal opinions.

Leaders giving conflicting messages in the media is a worrying development. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

3 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think you will find that if we fix our disposal entering the forward 50, then our forwards will improve no end.

Fix one, you fix the other. 

Weideman has not shown enough (yet) even with the relative poor quality of entries that he can hold down a key position at AFL level. Nowhere near it. And TMac is a backman turned defender who although very serviceable is going to be prone to the kind of form slumps we are seeing now. 

Go again with those two in 2020 and won’t matter if we have Josh Kelly and Andrew Gaff delivering it to them. 

Fix one fix the other is faulty logic. You must fix both.