Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Moonshadow 16,163]

I still think our FD will look at it more from objectives and outcomes POV rather than what pick we might get or give up. They want May, Preuss and KK. That much appears clear. Perhaps there is something else in the pipeline. But if Hogan wants to leave, I highly doubt we'd hold him to his final contract year. Whether we get 5+6 or 5+2019 1st rounder or just 5, it's about achieving our objectives to improve the list and moving on. I'm not suggesting the club roll over, just that we have bigger fish to fry in 2019.

[adonski 9,141]

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

I still think our FD will look at it more from objectives and outcomes POV rather than what pick we might get or give up. They want May, Preuss and KK. That much appears clear. Perhaps there is something else in the pipeline. But if Hogan wants to leave, I highly doubt we'd hold him to his final contract year. Whether we get 5+6 or 5+2019 1st rounder or just 5, it's about achieving our objectives to improve the list and moving on. I'm not suggesting the club roll over, just that we have bigger fish to fry in 2019.

I agree completely but if it's just pick 5 it's a complete failure.

[beelzebub 22,225]

11 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I still think our FD will look at it more from objectives and outcomes POV rather than what pick we might get or give up. They want May, Preuss and KK. That much appears clear. Perhaps there is something else in the pipeline. But if Hogan wants to leave, I highly doubt we'd hold him to his final contract year. Whether we get 5+6 or 5+2019 1st rounder or just 5, it's about achieving our objectives to improve the list and moving on. I'm not suggesting the club roll over, just that we have bigger fish to fry in 2019.

Of course they will. Only dolts get caught up in pure numbers. 

It's about servicing outcomes. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

10 minutes ago, adonski said:

I agree completely but if it's just pick 5 it's a complete failure.

You agree...then in same breath disregard the big picture ? 

[Moonshadow 16,163]

7 minutes ago, adonski said:

I agree completely but if it's just pick 5 it's a complete failure.

I don't think you do, but that's ok. 

If Hogan leaves, his value is whatever the FD believe is sufficient to achieve what they wanted to improve our list.

[daisycutter 28,487]

24 minutes ago, CHF said:

What exactly is entailed in "a tour of their facilities"?

Walk in the door....

Shake hands....

Listen to the welcome speech/sales pitch....

Smile at the receptionist.....

Look at the  different rooms while the real estate salesman tells you what you are looking at.....

Shake hands with more smiling people....

Have a coffee and a chat about the decor.....

Smile at the receptionist on the way out ...

Shake hands.....

Out into the sunshine for a quick smoke.....

 

There has to be more to it than that.......

they had to play a lot of ps2 games and make sure jesse won most of them....

[adonski 9,141]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You agree...then in same breath disregard the big picture ? 

 

2 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I don't think you do, but that's ok. 

If Hogan leaves, his value is whatever the FD believe is sufficient to achieve what they wanted to improve our list.

Let me rephrase, I agree almost entirely  with what you’ve said, the bigger picture and achieving our list goals are far more important than what the deal is on paper - for the most part. But if the club rolls over and accepts pick 5 alone, which I’m almost certain won’t happen, it will be a failure of a trade for a player who is easily worth two top 10 picks in the mind of any reasonable person (shout out to Sam McClure).

[beelzebub 22,225]

10 minutes ago, adonski said:

 

Let me rephrase, I agree almost entirely  with what you’ve said, the bigger picture and achieving our list goals are far more important than what the deal is on paper - for the most part. But if the club rolls over and accepts pick 5 alone, which I’m almost certain won’t happen, it will be a failure of a trade for a player who is easily worth two top 10 picks in the mind of any reasonable person (shout out to Sam McClure).

Again... outcomes...the minutae of what ACCOMPLISHES  that ? Irrelevant

Edited October 5, 2018 by beelzebub

[adonski 9,141]

Just now, beelzebub said:

Again... outcomes...the minutes of what ACCOMPLISHES  that ? Irrelevant

No, it's not irrelevant, if the footy departments goals involve only pick 5 for Hogan it is a complete and utter failure and we have been well and truly bent over.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

45 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

May is not worth pick #5 imo, he'd be closer to the value of Freo's first rounder next year (they aren't going anywhere fast, even with Hogan).

If we are able to keep pick 5 and our future first rounder, we should try and ante-up and bring in another quality mid. We are a young group so there's plenty of time to bring in the next generation, but we are now in flag mode and must recruit for the now.

My point exactly. We are not going for a five year plan. Taking a kid that can come in next year and impact is fine, waiting a year to draft a kid that may take 2 or three years to develop is stupid. Pure and simple. Hence my surprise at those suggesting that we just take next years first rounder. We need a pacey mid. Have needed this for three years. That is the priority. Anyone, I’m done . I’ve had a Xanax and a bottle of scotch, as suggested and now just look forward to Monday. I hope the deals are done swiftly.

[Moonshadow 16,163]

3 minutes ago, adonski said:

 

Let me rephrase, I agree almost entirely  with what you’ve said, the bigger picture and achieving our list goals are far more important than what the deal is on paper - for the most part. But if the club rolls over and accepts pick 5 alone, which I’m almost certain won’t happen, it will be a failure of a trade for a player who is easily worth two top 10 picks in the mind of any reasonable person (shout out to Sam McClure).

Your opinion, of course.

I think Mahoney, Todd Viney and Taylor will have a more pragmatic view and will not get bogged down by numbers. In fact they probably use a completely different set of criteria to us punters when assessing the outcome. Will they achieve 5+6 or 5+ Langdon or just 5? Don't know. However, will our list be improved with May, Preuss and KK, all of whom want to play in red and blue? F#*% yeah!

[adonski 9,141]

Just now, Moonshadow said:

Your opinion, of course.

I think Mahoney, Todd Viney and Taylor will have a more pragmatic view and will not get bogged down by numbers. In fact they probably use a completely different set of criteria to us punters when assessing the outcome. Will they achieve 5+6 or 5+ Langdon or just 5? Don't know. However, will our list be improved with May, Preuss and KK, all of whom want to play in red and blue? F#*% yeah!

Agreed mate, I reckon Jesse's departure will lead to a better list overall. 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

32 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I still think our FD will look at it more from objectives and outcomes POV rather than what pick we might get or give up. They want May, Preuss and KK. That much appears clear. Perhaps there is something else in the pipeline. But if Hogan wants to leave, I highly doubt we'd hold him to his final contract year. Whether we get 5+6 or 5+2019 1st rounder or just 5, it's about achieving our objectives to improve the list and moving on. I'm not suggesting the club roll over, just that we have bigger fish to fry in 2019.

So we give up the momentum of this year, lose 11 players , bring in three and then hope we stay afloat to have a tilt at the 2019 draft and then open the window again in 2020. Is that really what you suggesting ? 

[Moonshadow 16,163]

1 minute ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

So we give up the momentum of this year, lose 11 players , bring in three and then hope we stay afloat to have a tilt at the 2019 draft and then open the window again in 2020. Is that really what you suggesting ? 

Yeah sure, that's exactly what I'm suggesting...

FMD.

[layzie 28,708]

2 minutes ago, adonski said:

Agreed mate, I reckon Jesse's departure will lead to a better list overall. 

I agree 100% but you're wrong. 

[adonski 9,141]

Just now, layzie said:

I agree 100% but you're wrong. 

Layzie joke 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

Yeah sure, that's exactly what I'm suggesting...

FMD.

What’s the bigger fish we are frying then chef? 

[drysdale demon 4,146]

14 minutes ago, adonski said:

No, it's not irrelevant, if the footy departments goals involve only pick 5 for Hogan it is a complete and utter failure and we have been well and truly bent over.

If you think this is all we are going to get you have a lot to learn about.

[adonski 9,141]

Just now, drysdale demon said:

If you think this is all we are going to get you have a lot to learn about.

I clearly don't, scroll up?

[drysdale demon 4,146]

6 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

So we give up the momentum of this year, lose 11 players , bring in three and then hope we stay afloat to have a tilt at the 2019 draft and then open the window again in 2020. Is that really what you suggesting ? 

Have yo forgotten there are are a lot of fools on this site.

[layzie 28,708]

7 minutes ago, adonski said:

Layzie joke 

You're welcome adonski!

[whelan45 202]

My thoughts:

- J Kennedy will be 32 after next season, meaning WC might come real hard for Hogan next year. This might add to Freo wanting it done this year when they've got their best hand. They may not get a better chance. We need to demand the farm in return this year and not waver

- Talk of May fetching a high compo pick next year as a free agent if GC dont trade this year. I think there is a lot of uncertainty around this. Firstly he'll be 28 next year. Secondly this would mean GC don't sign any free agents themselves, as this would dilute the value of the compo pick. I think they snap up a good offer this year, certainly wouldnt offer any more than pick 5/6 (Im not convinced he's even worth that)

 

[Grapeviney 8,815]

2 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Have yo forgotten there are are a lot of fools on this site.

Panicking about something that hasn’t happened yet and may not happen at all seems pretty foolish to me.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

4 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

Panicking about something that hasn’t happened yet and may not happen at all seems pretty foolish to me.

Close the thread then. No point even discussing a hypothetical scenario according to this logic. 

[Moonshadow 16,163]

16 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

What’s the bigger fish we are frying then chef? 

Well, in case you haven't realised, we are aiming to win a flag. Keeping a player who might not want to be at the club isn't smart. Trading for players who do and fill specific needs that will improve out team is smart when we are aiming for a flag. That's the objective.

There are probably other factors at play that we don't know about that will effect the outcome. Could be medical, could be personal.

I trust our list guys to get the job done to improve our list. They've done a great job over the last 4-5 years. They will get value.