Would have to agree that Omac is being blamed for the sun going down last night and failing to rise by 7.30 this morning.

I can think of 5 of the goals Hawkins got NOBODY BUT NOBODY ( even Ch 7 favourite in Rance) could have stopped the lace into the middle of the sponsors logo delivery that Hawkinns got from Kelly and his mates. In one other Hawkins got a goal whilst in the ruck (so it is Omacs fault he did not go up against him and then we would be criticising him for giving away the free kick.

I think Omac has been very good this year and would have learnt a lot last night (as would all our defence.

Goodwins summation of the last quarter was spot on in his Press Conf.

In: Kent

Out: JKH 

Also I'm thinking there might be merit in adding Pedo/AvB in for a small (maybe Jeffy) given Adelaide's talls... any thoughts?

Time to unleash Ginger Baker - the Cream of the crop

  On 22/07/2018 at 05:39, dimmy said:

Would have to agree that Omac is being blamed for the sun going down last night and failing to rise by 7.30 this morning.

I can think of 5 of the goals Hawkins got NOBODY BUT NOBODY ( even Ch 7 favourite in Rance) could have stopped the lace into the middle of the sponsors logo delivery that Hawkinns got from Kelly and his mates. In one other Hawkins got a goal whilst in the ruck (so it is Omacs fault he did not go up against him and then we would be criticising him for giving away the free kick.

I think Omac has been very good this year and would have learnt a lot last night (as would all our defence.

Goodwins summation of the last quarter was spot on in his Press Conf.

I liked Goodwin's Presser. I think he hit the nail on the head: in other words, we're not there yet, but we're getting there...

  On 22/07/2018 at 02:04, jnrmac said:

he is a defender. His job is to defend. He fails. The stats don't lie. We are a very poor defensive team. We will probably be the only team in the history of the competition to have the highest 'points for' and miss the finals because our defence is so shiite. 

Yes but what is it that makes our defence shiite?

How does dropping OMac replace:

1. the turnovers up the ground;
2. the oodles of space we give opposition forward lines (not just Geelong, all of them);
3. the high press which leads to the "out the back" goals;
4. the lazy defensive running from the forwards and mids;
5. the failure to account for players like Duncan who get free in the final 20 seconds;
6. getting slammed in clearances at critical times which leads to easy clearances against us.

OMac needs to get better, but by blaming him, or any of the key defenders, is just too simplistic and ignores the bigger problems up the ground which are the real reason our defence is shiite (and I'm not disagreeing with you here, the way the 18 players on the ground defend is shiite too often).

  On 22/07/2018 at 02:12, deanox said:

I don't understand the love for Vanders here. Although I appreciated his effort and attack on the ball in 2015 there is nothing about him that makes him an auto in. 

When playing he averaged 15 disposals,  4 tackles and half a goal per game. Nothing special, nothing better than JKH or Hannan. 

He is no more experienced than JKH or Hannan, all with around 30 games. 

He has never played under Goodwin and hardly trained with them, meaning he won't know our system/ structure/ game plan

He may have limited endurance due to his time out of the game. 

 

Although we're live him for nostalgia reasons - he tried hard for us when we were horrible - he isn't asuperstar or walk up 22 player,  so given he is underdone rushing him in makes no sense.

Agree with you.

The posters calling for him to be included are the ones who like "grunt" and who love seeing his tackle numbers.

Three VFL games in 2.5 years is not enough for a fringe player to get back to AFL level, whether he's laying tackles or not.

Pert to full back

Now I've had time to be a little less emotional I think Oscar might stay in the side. Only because he's had a decent record on Jenkins in the past, and Frost can take Walker. I'd like to see Pedersen at FB but he's too slow for Jenkins, and Keilty coming in at CHB to take Walker on debut doesn't seem fair.

Hogan should definitely have a week off and it might be Tim Smith who replaces him. He can ruck against Jenkins and then Tommy Mc can play 90% game time as the main key forward. Use Smith as a decoy/pressure player and Melksham/Petracca FF/CHF as the secondary  targets. 

Maybe Tyson stays and JKH goes, I'm really over caring about the depth mids. Give Baker a run on the wing though. 

ANB? Has to go. Had more fumbles than disposals for about the 8th week in a row. Kills momentum. Someone at Casey surely can provide 90% of his pressure without the glaring errors? Hannan? Bugg? Kent? JKH as a forward? Anyone???

Omac is usually the last line of defence, the ball often has gone from end to end passing up to 17 other Melbourne players who did not stop it. as other have pointed out, it would have been hard for even the best fullback to stop about 5 of those goals.  Our high press means we leave their forward line open making it hard to stop the bullet like delivery. While our forward line is crowded as hell with our forwards typically outnumbered most of the time.

 

  On 22/07/2018 at 06:39, chook fowler said:

Time to unleash Ginger Baker - the Cream of the crop

He might be able to drum up some speed.

In: Hannan

out: JKH. 

With all things considered the performance wasn’t bad, losing sucks though. No one really doing consistently well enough in the VFL to force any changes, but I think Vandenberg will come in 2 more weeks. I think Baker is close to a game but I also don’t really see him slotting into our midfield at the moment. 

 

Also, want to say it calls for Keilty are rubbish, his season this year has been nothing compared to last year, but I also think they’ve seen enough to suggest he probably isn’t up to AFL level and will be gone come years end. 

Edited July 22, 20186 yr by Mad_Melbourne

We are limping towards the finish line

Need Gaff badly.

Won't make finals

Another gutting end to a season is inevitable 

  On 22/07/2018 at 04:30, —coach— said:

Disagree with your extensive analysis of the situation but happy you’ve found your scapegoat. For mine it’s a little more complex than that.

The concept to which you elect to refer as a 'scapegoat' is an incorrect one. It is time-tested and is one that has proven to exist with OMac for nearly two years from those who appreciate certain qualities in backmen - particularly full backs and centrehalf backs. At present, he just does not have the abilities to be a consistent asset in this position and thus, his consistent selection to the position is a consistent handicap to our team demanding additional players better utilised elsewhere to protect the goalmouth; two assistants in every play to secure and rebound the ball effectively, consistently - and that is why Hibberd and Lever are currently so missed.  Our two deep defenders pre-occupied with OMac's effectiveness are two players short of a full team bottle in a critical part of the field - demanding critical skills from each allocated player, not '...strength, skills and clearing..' supplements because one of the trio is underdone.

  On 22/07/2018 at 09:27, Deemania since 56 said:

He might be able to drum up some speed.

That would be very naughty 

Pedersen May come in this week to play back.

Omac was not the reason we lost and cannot be blamed. 

He was out of his depth in Q1 yet the coach did not choose to rescue "his boy" until the game was lost. 

That our backline relies on an under sized body with slow reaction time and lacking pace is not the player's fault. It is just our weakness.

 

Omac apologists will disagree but he is a serviceable defender, not a great one. He will also get better as his body matures. He was protected from by a solid group co defenders but they are injured including Nev, and gave left him more accountable. 

He will not be dropped by Simon Badloss even if his man kicks 10. We all know that. 

JKH is gone. Pure and simple. A positive l saw in the result is the identification/exposure of a couple of players who will not make it. 

Dom T has lost all value as a footballer. His confidence and skill have evaporated. He offers no substitution to Viney, and his lack of pace and awareness are downright liabilities. 

ANB has had no impact in any game over the last 6 weeks despite doing a lot of running and bum chasing. But he has been given the nod of the coach and l suspect his pisition is safe. 

Joel Smith gives 100% but is not experienced enough in AFL footy to genuinely earn and retain a spot. Maybe next year he will. He is a work in progress. 

For this week, JKH is out replaced by either Kent or Hannan. 

All the others mentioned will probably stay only because we lack sufficient depth or quality to replace them. 

I expect us to make 1 change and cut the rest of the team the slack they probably deserve for a great effort. We clearly carry 4 - 6 players that we shouldn't. It separates us from the best. 

We can beat Adelaide but we need the run of the ball and our best 14 doing their thing. If Adelaide apply physical pressure, we are Gawwwn. 

Injury to key players, as in 2017, has yet again cost us and exposed us as not quite as good a team as many think. We are not bad but fall into the 6 - 10 ranking in the comp. 

 

 

  On 22/07/2018 at 09:54, chook fowler said:

That would be very naughty 

Jack and Eric wouldn't think so....how else might they have come up with 'Sunshine of Your Love'?

  On 22/07/2018 at 07:22, chook fowler said:

Pert to full back

Probably would still win a kick or two, a few sore heads and a free kick!

  On 22/07/2018 at 07:22, chook fowler said:

Pert to full back

And Roos to CHB

Let’s hope Goodwin reads this forum and we drop and trade Hogan and OMac, drop Tyson, JKH, Garlett, Smith and bring in Vanders, Bugg, Kent, Pedersen, Weideman and Baker. Then we can all sit back and watch us get destroyed the next 5 weeks. 

How about we keep the current side in who busted a gut to win last night and then add VIney and Hibberd and hopefully Hunt before we start our finals campaign 

go Demons, unleash hell

Vanders has had 3 solid games in the twos. Time to unleash him I think. Don't think he can get much more out of the VFL now after 3 matches?? We need his pressure and physicality around the ball.

Out: JKH

In: Vanders

He just has to bash and crash and intimidate the opposition. If he snags a goal or two then that's a bonus.

  On 22/07/2018 at 09:14, Deecisive said:

Omac is usually the last line of defence, the ball often has gone from end to end passing up to 17 other Melbourne players who did not stop it. as other have pointed out, it would have been hard for even the best fullback to stop about 5 of those goals.  Our high press means we leave their forward line open making it hard to stop the bullet like delivery. While our forward line is crowded as hell with our forwards typically outnumbered most of the time.

 

Thats why you need someone who can defend one on one. He is as physical as wet lettuce. Keilty actually would bring some grunt.

 

I can't think of another viable equivalent 'in form' option with similar AFL experience at Casey even if you wanted to drop 0-Mac right now.

  On 21/07/2018 at 13:39, DeeSpencer said:

Oscar, Hogan, Tyson. All useless.

Oscar - Pedersen or Kielty
Hogan - Give Weeds another go.
Tyson - Oskar Baker or even Bugg on a wing

#Loser

As with most of you I have four players in the gun at selection this week, although I suspect a maximum of two changes will take place.

1) JKH - Yep we all know that was his big chance to show that he could handle the pressure and provide run and whilst he gave it his all and was part of a couple of goal chains, to me his nice mark on the wing and centring kick that was intercepted said it all - even at his best, he still comes up short. The only issue is who comes in for him. Do we rush back Vanders who will add those huge tackles but may tire? Do we give the running man Baker a shot at it? My preference is that we give him his debut a week later at the MCG against the Suns. If Hannan is fit then he could play on the wing. And the  other option would be to bring in Wags and either play him on a wing or send Vince forward because of the size of Adelaide's forward line. 

2) OMac.  I can't see us demoting him this late in the season and we definitely will need height against the Crows as they have Jenkins, the returning Walker, Lynch, McGovern and the tallish Greenwood to fit in their line-up, not to mention Betts. Obviously we will zone and play a spare at times, but for what it's worth Jetta goes to Betts, O-Mac (Walker), Frost (Jenkins), Smith (Lynch) and I expect McGovern to start back with Talia now that Doedee may not play. That leaves Lewis to pick up Greenwood - hence why I think Wagner may play to give us another option. If they do drop OMac, there's two options. Pedo has been playing there for a while now and could play on Jenkins or Tex. or they could send Jesse back there given his poor run in big games and bring in Weid. The thing with Jesse is that in away games he is still playing for frees and the chances of getting one is almost impossible. 

3) Tyson - I actually thought he played all right, given he was barely used (just 63% game time) and had to come in off the back of the square at bounces. The Crows game is at night, so I think he plays - just reckon he should be given more of a run because ultimately it's a 22-man game. And he's got to start in the square at bounce 1 - happy for him to moved out of there later as he tires and we want to send Trac in there. But can't believe why we want to waste his talents in the middle.

4) Garlett - In pressure night game's he's not the answer because he gets buffetted out of the way and we now have Spargo. Personally I'd leave him out for this one and while the inclusion should be Kent, he's hardly set the world on fire at VFL level. As a result I'd get in either VDB or Hannan.

The rest of the team played great, although the two goals Jordy conceded because of his lack of pace pretty much outweighed all his other good work.

 

 

   

.

 

  On 22/07/2018 at 11:01, Roost It said:

Let’s hope Goodwin reads this forum and we drop and trade Hogan and OMac, drop Tyson, JKH, Garlett, Smith and bring in Vanders, Bugg, Kent, Pedersen, Weideman and Baker. Then we can all sit back and watch us get destroyed the next 5 weeks. 

How about we keep the current side in who busted a gut to win last night and then add VIney and Hibberd and hopefully Hunt before we start our finals campaign 

go Demons, unleash hell

There is no real words to describe the morons having a go at Hogan, but I wish they'd just [censored] off and go support Carlton or something