10 minutes ago, TGR said:

 You can carry one; not two.

Spot on.

This needs to happen.  One or the other, not both.  Its almost a third of the way through the season and their old bodies are tiring.    Lewis looked like he was running in cement.

18 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Spot on.

This needs to happen.  One or the other, not both.  Its almost a third of the way through the season and their old bodies are tiring.    Lewis looked like he was running in cement.

Plus we had Tyson last night. 

Looking forward to Hunt getting fit and in form, to provide more run out of the backline!

6 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Lewis ain't the problem, and he was way better than many others out there last night. 

DS won't admit it though as, after being wrong in these sort of threads before, he desperately wants to be right. 

Your 1 example of me being wrong was when I said I was done with Tom McDonald, who is now playing a completely different role. I wasn't going to delist the guy on the spot, I would've sat down with him, worked out what's wrong in his game and quite possible played him ruck or forward years ago. Instead he played back with diminishing returns week after week until Gawn got injured and they bit the bullet to put him forward/ruck.

Like most people on here I have varying opinion on a number of players and have been wrong on lots of them over the years. But I don't believe I've started a thread or maintained a constant position against any players besides Tom McDonald (as a defender) and Lewis.

The only players worse than Lewis last night: Hogan (rough couple of weeks), Petracca (but a big first term), maybe Vince and Joel Smith who both spent a lot of time chasing after Lewis' opponent for him. As well as Oscar's poorly timed lapses that undid a lot of good work on Dixon.

On 6/11/2018 at 10:47 PM, SFebey said:

We can’t play Vince and Lewis in the same side, something has to give. 

Vince is not as lethal as he was and is noticeably slowing to be at the contest. Lewis is just slow but has great kicking skills and heads up to find 'local' opportunities in other players. Lewis skirts the contact or hangs outside, too. Yet his game was good against Port, not great, but good. A firmer opposition will completely negate him, now. Both need to be at Casey and one week at a time, create space for younger animals to move up to the ones. Petty, Frost, Baker and Stretch come to mind in those positions occupied by Vince and Lewis but there are others. With Lever gone, Frost might be a great support in the back pocket to assist OMac and simultaneously release Hibberd and Jetta for some downfield backline magic; Petty is possibly a good stand-in at CHB in that scenario; Baker has pace and could use it on the wing or just outside the midfield if moving into position; Stretch needs confidence and ball winning determination and he, too, could run out the ball from the HBFlank to wing - he certainly could set up some action for the talented Fritsch or even Petracca if he wanted the ball. For me, Vince and Lewis have been handy but it was always going to be a short-term arrangement.

8 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Vince is not as lethal as he was and is noticeably slowing to be at the contest. Lewis is just slow but has great kicking skills and heads up to find 'local' opportunities in other players. Lewis skirts the contact or hangs outside, too. Yet his game was good against Port, not great, but good. A firmer opposition will completely negate him, now. Both need to be at Casey and one week at a time, create space for younger animals to move up to the ones. Petty, Frost, Baker and Stretch come to mind in those positions occupied by Vince and Lewis but there are others. With Lever gone, Frost might be a great support in the back pocket to assist OMac and simultaneously release Hibberd and Jetta for some downfield backline magic; Petty is possibly a good stand-in at CHB in that scenario; Baker has pace and could use it on the wing or just outside the midfield if moving into position; Stretch needs confidence and ball winning determination and he, too, could run out the ball from the HBFlank to wing - he certainly could set up some action for the talented Fritsch or even Petracca if he wanted the ball. For me, Vince and Lewis have been handy but it was always going to be a short-term arrangement.

We’ve had a lot of one paced players for many years now, hasn’t seemed to improved for about 10 years.

Jonesy

Lewis

Bernie

Are they holding up the development of a youngster?

I have some Hawthorn mates who were so excited to see Lewis go

10 hours ago, TGR said:

Agree.

 

At the end of the day, Lewis won’t have been the difference between us making finals and not.

 

Listen to Roos last night, and he can’t believe we leave speed in the seconds (Garlett and Hunt (pre-injury)).

 

Lewis wasn’t our worst.  “Give it to me Harmes” and “Body language Hogan” could take claim to that last night.

 

But the Lewis experiment has failed, delayed development, and slowed an already one-paced side.  All for ‘leadership’.  This recruitment personified the veil of negativity and lack of trust in our own leaders and their capacity to write their own history.

Opposition coaches now are instructing players to take Lewis and Vince on, and disregard their perceived pressure.  You can carry one; not two.

Unbelievably short sighted comments... obviously from someone who knows zilch about developing a young team... 

I suppose you preferred the 2007 - 2012 model, which  we employed ?

20 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Lewis was good at Hawthorn as a midfielder. He just isn't a backman. Simple as that. At this point in his career he may not be good enough to break into our midfield, or willing enough to take the hits if he was. I would drop Lewis back to the VFL for a bit. See if he can help some of those lads who we need to be making the transition to AFL.

I think the players at Casey have to smash the door down to get into this side.

We have some playing well consistently at Casey, but are they smashing it in,,, or just knocking politely.

10 hours ago, D4Life said:

Plus we had Tyson last night. 

Looking forward to Hunt getting fit and in form, to provide more run out of the backline!

What's Tyson got to do with this?

We get that he's off the pace but he's not like-for-like with Lewis, Vince or even Hunt, who really stunk it up in the AFL side earlier this season by the way

I have no idea about football.

 

I thought Lewis did some great things against Port.  Treacle slow, yes, but well worth his place in the team.

19 minutes ago, the rolling fog said:

What's Tyson got to do with this?

We get that he's off the pace but he's not like-for-like with Lewis, Vince or even Hunt, who really stunk it up in the AFL side earlier this season by the way

Tyson is slow!

Vince is the bloke who should make way. He doesn't marshall the zone like Lewis does and his kicking isn't as good either.

As we've been saying for a while, time to play Petty alongside Oscar. Jetta, Joel Smith, Hibberd and Lewis the other backs.

I was at the game. Lewis was one of our best. Whoever says otherwise is talking rot.

6 minutes ago, Stormy Dee said:

I was at the game. Lewis was one of our best. Whoever says otherwise is talking rot.

Agree, there is more to a players worth than winning the 100m sprint.

One other poster suggested bringing Frost in and freeing up Jetta and Hibberd. With all trsprcts to Frosty, Lewis' footy IQ is far superior . You are not a key member of multi premierships without having a lot of footy IQ. Until we get some experience down back Lewis (in particular is a required )

Bernie is struggling stats wise ,but provides an experienced body.

21 hours ago, DV8 said:

I think the players at Casey have to smash the door down to get into this side.

We have some playing well consistently at Casey, but are they smashing it in,,, or just knocking politely.

Weidemann kicked seven goals and Stretch had 27 disposals and two goals in the latest game for Casey.

Edited June 24, 20187 yr by Stormy Dee

7 hours ago, Stormy Dee said:

Weidemann kicked seven goals and Stretch had 27 disposals and two goals in the latest game for Casey.

Yeah, I know that SD.

 

I would say that the Weide just kicked the door in.

Stats on disposals (stretch), on it's own,,,, isn't smashing the door in.   But how he does it, goes about his game will be the key. I am a fan, but he has to be ready, and to make a difference from the start in AFL.

10 hours ago, DV8 said:

Yeah, I know that SD.

 

I would say that the Weide just kicked the door in.

Stats on disposals (stretch), on it's own,,,, isn't smashing the door in.   But how he does it, goes about his game will be the key. I am a fan, but he has to be ready, and to make a difference from the start in AFL.

Weid is much more effective than Hogan close to goal. Jumps better when flat footed and actually puts 2 arms up in the air towards the ball. Also a more effective Gawn reliever than Harmes, Pederson, Smith.

Weid at full forward and Hogan to roaming always on the  move Centre Half Forward role.

And yes Lewis is cooked. If he does not want to retire immediately then he can mentor kids at Casey till end of this season, or end of season 2019 if he want s to play on. Treacle slow, goes to ground and kicking is unreliable. Top 8 teams just don't seem to play treacle slow half forwards in 2018 for some reason so he just will never have a match up. 

19 hours ago, dimmy said:

Agree, there is more to a players worth than winning the 100m sprint.

One other poster suggested bringing Frost in and freeing up Jetta and Hibberd. With all trsprcts to Frosty, Lewis' footy IQ is far superior . You are not a key member of multi premierships without having a lot of footy IQ. Until we get some experience down back Lewis (in particular is a required )

Bernie is struggling stats wise ,but provides an experienced body.

Lewis has reached the stage where the best use of his footy IQ is off field. In every game he'll have to try and beat an opponent to the ball. How many Top 8 teams have forwards he can beat to the ball?  

14 minutes ago, demoniac said:

Weid is much more effective than Hogan close to goal. Jumps better when flat footed and actually puts 2 arms up in the air towards the ball. Also a more effective Gawn reliever than Harmes, Pederson, Smith.

Weid at full forward and Hogan to roaming always on the  move Centre Half Forward role.

Hogan as I recall, was a roaming CHF in the u-18's. 

The vision of him in my mind was just that, marking on the move.

And I do like him also playing as a big ruck-rover on occasion, as well.

22 hours ago, Stormy Dee said:

Weidemann kicked seven goals and Stretch had 27 disposals and two goals in the latest game for Casey.

The performances are not to be discounted, but they were playing a village team. Like when Gawn had 80 hitouts then it turned out Bendigo couldn't afford a ruckman. 

On 6/23/2018 at 10:14 AM, TGR said:

Agree.

 

At the end of the day, Lewis won’t have been the difference between us making finals and not.

 

Listen to Roos last night, and he can’t believe we leave speed in the seconds (Garlett and Hunt (pre-injury)).

 

Lewis wasn’t our worst.  “Give it to me Harmes” and “Body language Hogan” could take claim to that last night.

 

But the Lewis experiment has failed, delayed development, and slowed an already one-paced side.  All for ‘leadership’.  This recruitment personified the veil of negativity and lack of trust in our own leaders and their capacity to write their own history.

Opposition coaches now are instructing players to take Lewis and Vince on, and disregard their perceived pressure.  You can carry one; not two.

Yawn

Faaaaarrrrrrrrrrrk! Bernie & Jordon are not the problem. sheeez. can't believe the lack of supporter smarts sometimes. 

Lewis remain a better kick most of the time, that makes up for speed, but we do need a few runners. Vince had qualities we need as well but together, hmmm there are decisions ahead. I am sad Salem/Hunt hasn't come on further, if anything his kicking isn't as much of a weapon I was hoping it would be. (he has a beautiful kick as well). I guess what I am saying is Running is critical but it's not the only thing - I believe the team is chasing the synergy of some younger faster players going better, to take advantage of the quarterback properties Lewis (and Vince) brings- yes they are slow, they were when they started, but they were not brought in for run but for setting up counter attacks (and in Vinces case some hardness).

I agree with the growing sentiment that the Lewis/Vince combination is coming to an end. I think there’s definitely only space for one of them moving forward.

Lewis in my view has better skills, and potentially organises those around him a little better (experience). On the other hand, I think he’s becoming softer by the week (probably get shouted down for it, but I don’t reckon he puts his body on the line as much as he should anymore, and certainly not like he used to), while Vince’s physicality with a big bump here and there can lift the team. That said if I had to pick, it’d be Lewis, just.

As for who would occupy Vince’s spot, I’m not sure if it’s been suggested elsewhere but to me Nathan Jones appears to be a great candidate. Why?

- he still has his speed, and would have the ability to break the lines and actually provide some true dash/rebound off half back, something sorely lacking with both Lewis/Vince in the side and Hunt injured/at Casey

- kicking skills are decent, probably not as capable as Vince as pulling off creative kicks that would open up the ground, but less susceptible to the goal conceding howler which seems to be a 1 per game occurrence with Vince this year 

- our midfield is stocked now with seriously good contested ball players - players have gone past him in the same role. If we’ve got Oliver, Viney and now Brayshaw dominating the contested ball inside, surely we can take resources from that part of the ground. Only gotta look at the Port game to realise that alone isn’t gonna win the game. I don’t see taking Jones out of there as upsetting the balance, whilst on the other hand really injecting some life off half back which has been recognised as an area of weakness even outside the club too

- he’s now 30 (31 start of next year). He’s still going fairly strong but he’s not gonna be around forever. I see it as the perfect way to transition him into the twilight of his career and extend it a little longer than otherwise, if continuing to be played as a battering ram. He’s been remarkably durable over the journey but last year we saw him miss a large chunk, could become a more frequent occurrence 

I see him playing a Jared McVeigh type role, slightly different in that he’s a little less polished, but harder at it. And a little like Boyd (Matthew) with the dogs, long career in the middle, goes back to be a cool head in the backline while the new young bulls dominate the midfield. 

Granted there’d be a query on how well he could defend one on one, but I don’t see why he couldn’t learn, especially given how competitive he is.. And given the way defences work these days, probably wouldn’t find himself one on one very often anyway.

Would love to hear thoughts on whether others would like to see this and whether they reckon Goodwin would ever consider it.

 

 

Edited June 26, 20187 yr by Dee93
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