23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I fail to see how it could be, considering you've made it clear you don't rate him and are now using childish, 12 year old names (Golden Balls) when discussing him.   That all goes out the window instantly the moment we sign him?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Can’t wait for Satyr to ask for “Golden Ball” autograph if he ever does sign on

 

30 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That doesn't mean that model for a forward line will last forever.  Things change constantly.  In two years time sides might be screaming out for 2 key forwards as one team wins the flag on the back of it.  No need to trade out someone as talented as Hogan to suit another clubs style of football.

True. Furthermore who knows what mad rule changes the AFL will implement which may affect the style of play and hence type of player required.

2 minutes ago, sue said:

True. Furthermore who knows what mad rule changes the AFL will implement which may affect the style of play and hence type of player required.

Exactly.

I still think, in it's simplistic form, a team still needs to have the right mix of players in terms of height, position and inside and outside ability.  You can build all sorts of game plans and stay on top of trends much easier that way.  Trading away one type for more of another, just to suit what is in vogue, is no way to manage your list.

6 hours ago, rjay said:

 

Realise that Tim is a Saints supporter for a start, I haven't found him to be WA biased. A bit of a screw loose at times...yeah.

C'mon he's as pro West Coast as anyone. Maybe a band wagon jumper for the saints.

5 hours ago, SPC said:

I think Hogan could be the missing pawn to our side. If we could find a suitable trade to bring in 2 quality wingers, that would make us a formidable side. Richmond have shown the best model for a forward line.

If I read someone trying to trade Hogan again I will scream. Superstar and a demon for life.

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

C'mon he's as pro West Coast as anyone. Maybe a band wagon jumper for the saints.

No he's been a Saints supporter since he was a kid when his favourite player George Young crossed over to them from Subiaco in 1973

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

If I read someone trying to trade Hogan again I will scream. Superstar and a demon for life.

Reality is Tom Mac changed the forward landscape. Not sure that Jesse and Weid and Tommy are all required. I think we have some gaps in leg speed and kicking accuracy as outside runners, Gaff offer this, but if he re-signs, we need to look elsewhere. We may need to give up something. Even with Gaff, we are still short of runners.

26 minutes ago, SPC said:

Reality is Tom Mac changed the forward landscape. Not sure that Jesse and Weid and Tommy are all required. I think we have some gaps in leg speed and kicking accuracy as outside runners, Gaff offer this, but if he re-signs, we need to look elsewhere. We may need to give up something. Even with Gaff, we are still short of runners.

They can trade Weid for all I care. Tommy and Jesse are our pillars for a long time yet.

I'm still confident that Gaff will leave. I hope I'm right.

11 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

They can trade Weid for all I care.

Won’t get much for him.

6 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I fail to see how it could be, considering you've made it clear you don't rate him and are now using childish, 12 year old names (Golden Balls) when discussing him.   That all goes out the window instantly the moment we sign him?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Golden Balls is a nickname given to a gifted player of a ball sport, Beckham used to get it from opposition supporters

We are discussing whether in our opinions, which in the big scheme things, don't matter a jot, the club should chase him

There are similar topics about other players, Sloane was always going to stay, in my opinion, so didn't join in on that one

50 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Won’t get much for him.

Some have bounced the idea of trading him for Darcy Moore as the Pies need cap space apparently, and it would also satisfy eddie's nostalgic bones

Edited July 12, 20186 yr by John Demonic

Personally paying $750 + over 5 years for Gaff is a terrible idea. Hope he stays as I can't see WC going all the way anytime soon

57 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

There are similar topics about other players, Sloane was always going to stay, in my opinion, so didn't join in on that one

How convenient.

57 minutes ago, McQueen said:

How convenient.

Yes but it was my opinion again, and the Sliane topic has been going for a while and I didn't contribute

I know you may find this a staggering concept but some do have differing opinions to the mob rule/group speak/FOBLO   unfortunately these days they get hammered down as it is a concept that frightens the masses, the ability to think for oneself

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes but it was my opinion again, and the Sliane topic has been going for a while and I didn't contribute

I know you may find this a staggering concept but some do have differing opinions to the mob rule/group speak/FOBLO   unfortunately these days they get hammered down as it is a concept that frightens the masses, the ability to think for oneself

What is this group speak/think you speak of?

Don't confuse mob rule with a small bunch of posters who want to engage you back & forth.

I see many varied opinions on Gaff and most topics on this forum.

I hardly remember a consensus opinion on anything.

It’s obviously fine having an opinion on a player, but those who rate Gaff have statistics and have watched West Coast games to back there’s up. 

Edited July 12, 20186 yr by Ethan Tremblay

9 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Sloane was always going to stay, in my opinion, so didn't join in on that one

That's incredible !

Even Sloane wasn't certain he was going to stay, but you were. 

Amazing

32 minutes ago, ProDee said:

That's incredible !

Even Sloane wasn't certain he was going to stay, but you were. 

Amazing

I can only guess he was told by Sloane’s sister.

8 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes but it was my opinion again, and the Sliane topic has been going for a while and I didn't contribute

I know you may find this a staggering concept but some do have differing opinions to the mob rule/group speak/FOBLO   unfortunately these days they get hammered down as it is a concept that frightens the masses, the ability to think for oneself

Saty, my post was trying to reference your incredible ability to call on ‘potential outcomes’ after they’ve actually happened - as with Sloane. If it makes you feel better, then I’m happy for you.

Have a great day.

10 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes but it was my opinion again, and the Sliane topic has been going for a while and I didn't contribute

I know you may find this a staggering concept but some do have differing opinions to the mob rule/group speak/FOBLO   unfortunately these days they get hammered down as it is a concept that frightens the masses, the ability to think for oneself

You have repeated this same garbage hundreds of times and its still as ridiculous as it was the first time. 

13 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Golden Balls is a nickname given to a gifted player of a ball sport, Beckham used to get it from opposition supporters

We are discussing whether in our opinions, which in the big scheme things, don't matter a jot, the club should chase him

There are similar topics about other players, Sloane was always going to stay, in my opinion, so didn't join in on that one

We are going to change your name to 'Opinionhome' soon.  You fall back on the 'opinion' argument every time, but in the bolded part above, you show how good you are at not answering the question at hand and, instead, just falling back on your tried and true method of using opinions as something to hide behind.

My query was - how could you be happy with the club if we recruit someone you don't rate?  If, in your opinion, you think he is nothing but an accumulator, why will that change if the club recruits him?  Why will you just accept it?

I think back to the recruitment of Melksham and how many people were reticent at the time.  Many didn't just go 'I don't rate the bloke, but now the club has recruited him so now I do' - it took some consistently good play from Melksham to win those people around, not just the fact he now wore red and blue.  I have no doubt you would support him, but I can't see how your opinion on him could change so quickly that you be happy getting someone you don't rate.

Donald J Trump han an opinion on everything worldwide, that is shoved down our throats daily. 

Opinions can be very dangerous in the wrong hands. 

12 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Opinions can be very dangerous in the wrong hands. 

So I've noticed.

2 minutes ago, rumpole said:

So I've noticed.

That’s was your job Rumpole, to sort opinions from facts. 

What is the afterlife like? Can you enlighten us all?

It's probably not a popular idea, but I'd seriously consider including Hogan in a trade for Gaff (assuming WC matched any offer as a restricted free agent).

Hogan is a jet who every club would love to have and I don't want to lose. But seeing us get chopped up by Hawthorn & Collingwood then losing to the bloody Saints at the 'G highlights our glaring, recurrent deficiencies on the outside. Even when we smashed the doggies at Etihad we were made to look slow and second rate in that area, which makes me slightly worried about this weekend (I still think we'll get up given they're pretty undermanned).

It seems like currently we're relying on the below few to provide outside run and ball use:
Neal-Bullen - tries harder than anyone but is really a B/C grader. His turnovers in the forward half can kill momentum
Harmes (increasingly outside) - playing well, but still lacks a bit of polish. Do rate though
Fritsch - classy, but more half forward
Salem - classy, but more half back
Stretch - played decently last week, but is he gonna make it?

Our fortunes this year have proved that winning contested ball and relying on grunt/effort/"bullying" opposition around the ball isn't gonna get us to a flag. We still haven't made finals and look set to miss again, which is annoying because we have such a good list still.

When we lose, we look absolutely nowhere near it in terms of speed and spread - any team is capable of showing us up in this area on their day. And the lack of quality ball use contributes to the horrendous going inside 50 efficiency seen this year. Our outside issues are always exacerbated at the G given its size; the "pinball" crash and bash style on a smaller ground suits us better now, and we're a serious team at Etihad. But we've gotta align our game plan and personnel to our home ground and the ground where finals are played, when we finally do make it. I think we really need to re-assess and restructure to move forward, it's not just "choking" or mental weakness that's holding us back at the moment.

Given the above list consists mainly of fringe players or flankers, we surely need to prioritise either developing or getting in a quality player who can play 100%/majority of the game in the midfield. Gaff is probably one of the fittest players in the comp and racks up huge numbers on the wing. Don't know his efficiency stats, but seems to rarely turn it over. Type of player aside, he's a past best and fairest winner & All Australian, and on track to make it again this year, sitting equal 3rd in Brownlow betting @ $9 (with Gawn). He's out of contract, Victorian and a Dees supporter growing up (which probably counts for nothing).

With Hogan there's always been the "go home" worry and currently he's only contracted for one more year (I think?). Right now he'd be at premium trade value - 23 and having his best season yet, until recently I reckon was on track for All Australian this year himself. With Kennedy nearing the end you'd think WC especially would be very keen. 

From our point of view, we'd have to back Tommy Mac to stay fit and Weidemann developing/Smith/someone else filling 2nd key forward post. Think this is less important than having the right midfield mix though, and less important in the game generally than it used to be anyway.

Am I overplaying our weaknesses/should we persist with who we have? Is Gaff overrated?

Polec would be another one who'd be great to get, but seeing as he's actually from Adelaide can't see him leaving Port.

Gotta give up quality to get quality. If we traded Hogan and got Gaff + a lower pick/player it would be a win imo**

 

**Just realised probably don't even need to trade players if restricted FA, so if so ignore Hogan comments! Regardless, crux of the post is I support getting Gaff!

Edited July 13, 20186 yr by Dee93