5 hours ago, Farmer said:

What ridiculous nonsense. At present he's still the best player in the club. Yes there are others who may prove to be better in the future but week in, week out, this bloke is either our best or amongst the best. Others, who we rate highly, still lack consistency

I like Jonesy , and believe he is worth his place in the side. He is indeed a great trier and don’t believe he is the problem. He is in our top tier of mids for the moment ( Oliver, Viney, Jones) with Salem and Petracca getting there, but a bit inconsistent.

Disagree that Jonesy is the best player in the side now however, father time is catching him and believe he finds it hard to match it and be as destructive some of the top mids(Dangerfield etc) these days.

If was looking for the problem ,I believe it rests with the next tier of mids. Who of them is really stepping up?

 

 

 

On field leadership is definitely an issue for us. Without question. It's one of the main reason we can't stop the bleeding during those lulls. People blame Goodwin, but if a run-on starts 5 minutes into a quarter, Goodwin doesn't have a chance to chat to the collective group until 25 minutes later. 

Richmond's leaders saw the momentum swing in the 3rd qtr and wrestled it back. Unfortunately we don't have that same type of leadership to do the same. Jones isn't the only leader out there, but he certainly should be doing more when the opposition is on a rampage. 

12 hours ago, Coldy21 said:

Im sorry to Jones for saying this because hes been a warrior for the club but i dont think hes the best captain. I remember watching a video of him a few years ago:

 

He seems unnatural and just plain annoying to be honest. The way he tries to motivate the players i think is more suited to a boxing gym than a footy team. When youre training to fight a one on one battle its good to be screamed at and get angry but not when youre playing a team sport. I just feel the way he goes about it is creating disharmony in the team.

Everyone keeps blaming coach after coach but maybe its not the coaches when we have the same problem through multiple coaches?

We always drop off dramatically without Viney and obviously he adds to the team with his skills but i think its a lot more than that that he offers. I think its the way he motivates the players in a slightly different way to Jones thats the biggest difference.

Obviously Jones is a great player but i dont think he should be captain. I think hes just a bit too tough and tries a bit too hard. Leadership isnt natural to him and despite the effort hes put into the captaincy hes still not natural which has a negative effect on the whole team.

troll

We are missing our two best leaders -- Viney and T Mac.

Jonesy is not the problem.  Christ, hes had an exceptional career. He was drafted to a rabble club that usually a graveyard for talent and he became a very good player.  Busted his ass for years when we were worse than Fitzroy.  

Easily in our top 5 players this year.  One of the most consistent performers at the club week in and week out and did the same most weeks through the abysmal Neeld era!  If only so many others were able to bring his level and consistency each week we would be now sitting pretty in the top 4 and there would be no one questioning his captaincy. In fact they would be saying..."wow isn't out Cap doing well this year, what a great example for our young blokes etc etc".

Leads by example.  Not A grade but who else is, other than Clarry, who is too early into his career to consider.

Nothing to see here.

 

troll

Did someone say Troll !!?? ....

 

 

Im sorry to Jones for saying this because hes been a warrior for the club but i dont think hes the best captain. I remember watching a video of him a few years ago:

 

He seems unnatural and just plain annoying to be honest. The way he tries to motivate the players i think is more suited to a boxing gym than a footy team. When youre training to fight a one on one battle its good to be screamed at and get angry but not when youre playing a team sport. I just feel the way he goes about it is creating disharmony in the team.

Everyone keeps blaming coach after coach but maybe its not the coaches when we have the same problem through multiple coaches?

We always drop off dramatically without Viney and obviously he adds to the team with his skills but i think its a lot more than that that he offers. I think its the way he motivates the players in a slightly different way to Jones thats the biggest difference.

Obviously Jones is a great player but i dont think he should be captain. I think hes just a bit too tough and tries a bit too hard. Leadership isnt natural to him and despite the effort hes put into the captaincy hes still not natural which has a negative effect on the whole team.

Sounds reasonable - We haven't played finals since Joneses debut year. I reckon his demeanor rubbed off on our players back then and is why we havent played finals since. In years to come we will find that he is a direct decendant of Norm Smith.

Or maybe he is simply a very good leader and clubman committed to developing our young, talented and sometime inconsistent list who are still learning to play a developing game plan with some key personnel changes. 

The club has changed the game plan from Ultra Offensive to Ultra Defensive. That can work until they show signs of tiring then the Hawks & Tigers run all over you.

They have done the Defensive part,  but now don't do the offensive part. When in the last fortnight have you seen them switch play.

They play down the line all the time. They scored last night when they clearly won the centre clearance and got the ball forward quickly.

Nothing at all to do with on field leadership.

It's the off field leadership that is the problem. Arguments going on with Brendan McCartney, now with Jack Viney.

When this starts it festers.

Nathan Jones you are a class act and that is the truth. When your playing career  comes to an end,  you will be remembered for your passion, hardness, fierceness your leadership and most of all your loyalty to our Great club. You are an A grader in more way than one. If only some of your team mates can perform half as good as you do. IF ONLY.

 

 

Im sorry to Jones for saying this because hes been a warrior for the club but i dont think hes the best captain. I remember watching a video of him a few years ago: 

Agree with you Coldy.

I rememeber that clip.
Was not much more than yelling and grunting.

Then saw this one.
The difference is stark.

 

 

 

We have many problems but Jones aint one of them.

Let's start with a gameplan that doesn't work. Overpossess in the midfield and bomb long on the top of Garlett's head. Refusal to switch, etc.

A defence where four of our six (Jetta, Hibberd,  Lever and Hunt) are hopelessly out of form.

No outside ball carriers of quality.

A one paced midfield.

NQR's making up bottom six. Harmes, ANB, Stretch, etc.

A ruckman that dominates but doesn't benefit the team in clearances.

No defensive crumbers. Everyone must fly simultaneously.

Selection that sees Fritsch dropped but Harmes play... 

 

 

completely agree, but i reckon fritsch was rested, not dropped. 

 

Agree with you Coldy.

I rememeber that clip.
Was not much more than yelling and grunting.

Then saw this one.
The difference is stark.

 

 

He's going to make a very good coach IMO.

Jones is not the problem. His work ethic is first class, and he gives his all each game.

If the other 21 players did the same we would be flying.

what a joke of a thread. some people need to have a good look at themselves

trollsville

the problem is mostly game plan

give me 18 jonesies every time

13 hours ago, Rocky said:

completely agree, but i reckon fritsch was rested, not dropped. 

Why didn’t the club say “rested” then instead of “omitted”

rested after 4 games? Maybe young Bayley isn’t one of Goodys favourites 

Edited April 26, 20186 yr by SFebey

Disgraceful thread

Great player, shyte captain. Nothing more to say.

The only problem with Nathan Jones is that 13 years into his career he is still the second best midfielder at the club.

Oliver has gone past him, but not one other player in the past decade has come close to matching Jones' output. Viney is the closest, but he misses too many games at this stage of his career. 

Any thought that Jones won't be at the club next year, or shouldn't be captain is just ludicrous.

 

 

Cotchin was questioned as a good leader etc ...rest is history

Clearly there's an error in the thread title. The word "not" is missing. 

I avoided this thread for 24 hours as I thought it would be unnecessarily insulting and demeaning. I was right and I'm now sorry I weakened and had a look.

2 hours ago, SFebey said:

Why didn’t the club say “rested” then instead of “omitted”

rested after 4 games? Maybe young Bayley isn’t one of Goodys favourites 

maybe because things don't need to be constantly overexplained to us? he's a first year player and clearly quite thin. they threw him in for round 1 and he did some great things. not one of his favourites?! you're kidding right? maybe cite JKH instead.

The blind defensiveness of Jones worries me and i hope that the people within the club are more honest with themselves than some of you guys.

Im not sure what a troll is or where trollsville is but im a long time reader of this forum and supporter of the club so i dont see how many times ive posted here as being relevant to the discussion.

I also dont know why so many of you are defending him based on his playing ability. His deficiencies as a captain have nothing to do with his playing ability. Yes of course a captain should be a good tough player who leads by example but a captain should more importantly be a good communicater who can get the most out of the players. Its obvious to me that Jones cant do that.

That video of Hodge is exactly what id like to hear more of from our captain. He talks to the players in a respectful way that gets the point across and clearly gets the best out ot them.

I hated Neeld but i think his ideas around the captaincy were well intentioned and not far off. His point was that Trengove and Grimes although very young and inexperienced were the best leaders at the club. Many on here were screaming for Jones to be captain but i doubt Jones himself felt shafted by the club for not being picked as captain. I could be wrong but did anyone see anything from him to suggest otherwise? Natural leaders show leadership potential from a young age. Jones is not a natural leader and he knows that.

I think Trengove had the most potential to be a great captain but was obviously picked too young and didnt get the respect from the playing group. Hes the type who with experience, maturity and respect could get through to the players like Hodge does.

I dont understand why in the afl in general that all the blame goes to the coach. Teams not going well, lets sack the coach. What about the captain? Hes the one on the ground. Hes the one whos supposed to be steering the ship but unfortunately for our team ours is wrapped in cotton wool and no one has the balls to admit we need to try someone else.

Nat is a great trier and wear's his heart on his sleeve. But he can be a liabilty as he butches the ball too much and unfortunely for us is never going to reach the standard of a champion. He is not the person to lead us,by only having one captain i.e Viney it makes it easy for the selectors to drop a player who is not the captain. I believe we should trade him year's end. Let's not get emotional over my statement,like people did with Watts and Sylvia. Both no great losses.

7 hours ago, Coldy21 said:

The blind defensiveness of Jones worries me and i hope that the people within the club are more honest with themselves than some of you guys.

Im not sure what a troll is or where trollsville is but im a long time reader of this forum and supporter of the club so i dont see how many times ive posted here as being relevant to the discussion.

I also dont know why so many of you are defending him based on his playing ability. His deficiencies as a captain have nothing to do with his playing ability. Yes of course a captain should be a good tough player who leads by example but a captain should more importantly be a good communicater who can get the most out of the players. Its obvious to me that Jones cant do that.

That video of Hodge is exactly what id like to hear more of from our captain. He talks to the players in a respectful way that gets the point across and clearly gets the best out ot them.

I hated Neeld but i think his ideas around the captaincy were well intentioned and not far off. His point was that Trengove and Grimes although very young and inexperienced were the best leaders at the club. Many on here were screaming for Jones to be captain but i doubt Jones himself felt shafted by the club for not being picked as captain. I could be wrong but did anyone see anything from him to suggest otherwise? Natural leaders show leadership potential from a young age. Jones is not a natural leader and he knows that.

I think Trengove had the most potential to be a great captain but was obviously picked too young and didnt get the respect from the playing group. Hes the type who with experience, maturity and respect could get through to the players like Hodge does.

I dont understand why in the afl in general that all the blame goes to the coach. Teams not going well, lets sack the coach. What about the captain? Hes the one on the ground. Hes the one whos supposed to be steering the ship but unfortunately for our team ours is wrapped in cotton wool and no one has the balls to admit we need to try someone else.

Its like you picked out the least of our problems and made it the biggest.

Hodge is a rare leader and communicator.  History is littered with great non-verbal leaders who have won multiple flags.

It would be more credible if you cited a lack of leadership as a big issue, both on and off the ground, but to put the lot on the shoulders of our captain is just ridiculous.

Jones' lack of on field leadership is certainly problem. I'm sure he's great off the field driving standards and expectations, but on It, he doesn't impact the overall contest enough.

The perfect example of this is the Richmond game. One of the most ineffective 30 disposal games from a captain I've seen.