2 minutes ago, praha said:

I don't care that it was cancelled or the reason for it, but again i think this is just amateur hour from the media department. They don't owe the fans or media any reasoning for it. I don't think many people would have even realised if nothing was said. At the most all they had to say was "We've cancelled the camp to focus on a different training approach". Even that is too much because it creates questions. 

Had nothing been said, would people have even cared? Or realised?

Now we're once again the subject of media and fan ridicule. 

Regardless of the legitimacy of the reasoning behind it, and it does some like a reasonable decision to make, you simply can't ignore that to the general football world, it doesn't look good.

The club's PR and media department is just full of nuffies. This is bad PR. And we wonder why we struggle for sponsors.

Story clearly leaked to Jay Z before the other journos could write it in a harsher light. Will be all over by tomorrow.

Once the AFLPA were on to it too many people know and it gets out. 

29 minutes ago, demondame said:

I was at the agm tonight where president, ceo and coach all responded to a question about why the camp was canceled. 

I was satisfied with the explanation, and am surprised at the amount of angst it is creating here.

PJ’s comments-  the purpose of camps like this is to fast track resilience, mfc has put concentrated effort into this area in recent years and to cancel was not going to mess with overall aim of preseason

- injuries, and loss of conditioning, were seen as significant negatives resulting from last year’s camp

- coaches don’t treat players as children but address their concerns seriously.

PJ is a skilled communicator and no doubt has spun this explanation to minimise the degree of heated debate and bruised egos experienced, to arrive at the decision.

But really,  in context of all the information conveyed to the agm, this issue is a non-issue 

 

dd why would they schedule it in this year if they didn’t think it would provide much value? Just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

 

Why was there no feedback taken after the last camp? Should have been anonymous and studied. I find it difficult to believe that no feedback was sought or that it was but players were reluctant to be identified.

If it wasnt reflected upon, then the coaches were not in touch or hadnt understood what the playing group had thought of it. Just sounds unprofessional or at least clumsy all around.

It’s round 23 all over again, players pick and choosing when to show up, looks like not much has changed 

49 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

This is a classic Demonland thread.  Usual posters are negative, usual posters are positive and we have a smattering of slightly humorous comments in between.  This will go round and round in circles for weeks over the off season.

Well done everyone!

The thing about being negative is we've been on an 11 year stretch of being right.

I'm trying to look at the glass half full result here which is the players are standing up for themselves (via their unions the little weak....) and if that means they stand up for themselves on field it might be a good thing. 

1 hour ago, Drunkn167 said:

Goodwin gave a presentation last Thursday explaining what they wanted to get from the camp, and explaining that this time they will be bringing a larger amount of medical staff

This was what caused the problems last time...

They left too much in the hands of outsiders and didn't plan things properly.

Forget bagging the players & injured players from last years camp, it was poorly done & it's no wonder the playing group don't want to go again.

A couple of messages also come out of this for those pro the camp on this forum last time around.

1. Don't believe the players when they tell you what you want to hear...their actions prove they didn't think the camp was a good idea at all.

2. The proof of it's value (worthlessness) was there for all to see in the last game of 2017.

14 minutes ago, rjay said:

This was what caused the problems last time...

They left too much in the hands of outsiders and didn't plan things properly.

Forget bagging the players & injured players from last years camp, it was poorly done & it's no wonder the playing group don't want to go again.

A couple of messages also come out of this for those pro the camp on this forum last time around.

1. Don't believe the players when they tell you what you want to hear...their actions prove they didn't think the camp was a good idea at all.

2. The proof of it's value (worthlessness) was there for all to see in the last game of 2017.

 

1 hour ago, demondame said:

PJ’s comments-  the purpose of camps like this is to fast track resilience, mfc has put concentrated effort into this area in recent years and to cancel was not going to mess with overall aim of preseason

 

I recall a Mindfulness thread a month back about Richmond building mental resilience, why not get them in for one of those retreats instead of the physical boot camps?

Edited December 14, 20177 yr by Doodle Dee

I guess we could probably revisit the topic after last year’s  camp where Salem & Tyson were injured & read “what a waste of time.....how unnecessary.....shouldn’t have had that type of camp ”etc ....comments there were.   I remember when Collingwood with all their money were doing “cutting edge” camps in hyperbaric chambers overseas  & Port had the guru fitness guy ....I could go on...fact is they didn’t win a premiership.  If the players, who ultimately only play to win a premiership, feel this camp doesn’t enhance those aspirations....why wouldn’t you listen.  It is their bodies that do the work so I don’t see it as a “ weakness” I admire the maturity to address what they feel is not right.  Maybe if the Essendon players had addressed their concerns over the amount of needles they were receiving we wouldn’t have the “drugs saga” that stymied our game for so many years...let’s not be too quick too judge 

Maybe if the camp was held correctly last yr it wouldn’t have been an issue this yr. 

So I think in typical Demonland style people are jumping to the worst conclusions. Coach has lost the players, divide between FD and players, players showing weak attributes. 

I think we need to take a breath, doing this camp and the players resenting the FD could cause more of a rift than anything going on now. It’s been sorted, they can move on. Only thing I’m disappointed about is that the players felt they needed to go to the PA about it. I would prefer they feel comfortable enough collectively voice their opinions to the leadership group and they confront the FD united. 

The fact they’ve gone to the PA looks bad for the club and looks bad for them (gives the impression of them whinging to their union). What I want to come from this is for the coach and FD to speak to the players and let them know in the future they can actually come and speak directly with them. 

Lets turn this into a positive learning experience for everyone rather than pointing fingers. 

Edited December 14, 20177 yr by Pates

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

This is a classic Demonland thread.  Usual posters are negative, usual posters are positive and we have a smattering of slightly humorous comments in between.  This will go round and round in circles for weeks over the off season.

Well done everyone!

And let’s not forget that if the boot camp had gone ahead and there were injuries that curtailed important players’ pre-seasons, the same people accusing the playing group here of being soft would be up in arms at the football dept for not having learned anything from last year’s debacle and would be calling for Goodwin’s head.

28 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

Maybe if the Essendon players had addressed their concerns over the amount of needles they were receiving we wouldn’t have the “drugs saga” that stymied our game for so many years...let’s not be too quick too judge 

 

20 minutes ago, Pates said:

The fact they’ve gone to the PA looks bad for the club and looks bad for them (gives the impression of them whinging to their union).

If only the EFC players had of whinged to their union...

It's not good, it's not bad, it's what comes as a consequence that counts.

If Goodwin flogs them and feels the need to re-assert his power over the group he may well lose them. He may need to swallow his pride . It may be a good lesson for him. They are all on a journey together, he may need to consult more. It may be a golden opportunity to create a "buy in" for the season. It may be the turning point for a good season. I hope Goodwin is smart with his next play.

I question the value of these boot camp things.  Spending a week working the players to exhaustion does nothing for their long-term conditioning.  Better to keep going with a structured plan designed to have them peaking for round one.  As for team-building, there are any number of options they can take that don't run the risk of injury.  Play Laser Tag or something. 

Says a lot about both the playing group, the leaders and the coaching staff.  There is obviously a trust issue that the playing group perceive the FD as having too much brawn and not enough brain; while the coaching staff will question the resilience of the playing group.

Cant believe that this wasn’t mediated before union intervention.

 

Something stunk with the Watts scapegoat saga.  But a rotten stench is thick now.

 

Roos the man-manager was underrated by our supporters.  I remember many wanting Goody to takeover before Roos’ 3rd year.

 

If I was opposition I would sledge us till the cows are locked in the shed.

 

 

PILATES BOYS

 

Okay what the hell is all this "Goodwin has lost the players" talk?!?!? What are any of you basing this on???

The players all love and respect the ever living s*** out of him, both as a player and a coach.

I laid out the facts of what happened and at the start of the Christmas break this will all be forgotten by the Players and Coaches.

You all need to relax guys.

 

Who's ya brother Drunkn?

 

2 hours ago, Drunkn167 said:

Okay what the hell is all this "Goodwin has lost the players" talk?!?!? What are any of you basing this on???

The players all love and respect the ever living s*** out of him, both as a player and a coach.

I laid out the facts of what happened and at the start of the Christmas break this will all be forgotten by the Players and Coaches.

You all need to relax guys.

 

Deadset. This is a better place with you hanging around, fella.

2 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Who's ya brother Drunkn?

 

Keilty, D has been a fantastic contributor since Dec was picked up. 

Tyson’s knee is why.

I said this at the time, but no one listened.

The AFL.com report said the players will instead complete their training for the year with a football-specific focus. It also said the players were concerned about injuries and the associated loss of conditioning. The players gave their honest feedback in open communication with the club and it responded in sensible manner. All of these points should be considered good things.

Further, it has been reported that members of the leadership group themselves raised concerns. I assume that if the co-captains were for the camp then they would have had a bigger sway in convincing the entire group, so I'm going to take it that both Viney and Jones believed the team at large would be better served by pursuing a course of ongoing football-related training.

Or should they be considered soft and non-committed to the MFC as well?

 

The simple fact is someone is in the wrong, and the fact they have resorted to getting the union involved means there is a breakdown in communication somewhere.

I'm shocked some posters are happy to pass it off as a "non issue".

It's all Mickey Mouse. I'd rather they spent the time honing their craft - which is, as you may remember, playing football against the best in the land. And abseiling down a cliff or climbing a mountain doesn't make you a better footballer - it makes you a better abseiler or a better mountain climber, and having a brick dropped on your head is highly unlikely to make you a better anything.

I think the players got it right. They couldn't see any tangible benefits from it, and based on last year, only negative outcomes. This isn't giving the kybosh to a time trial run. This is saying no to something that won't make them better footballers no matter how many times they do it. And, hey, they showed some pretty smart and clever teamwork to get the win on that.

Edit - and I can't begin to tell you how much I liked the comment about if only the Essendon players stood up to the club about OH&S concerns.

 

Edited December 14, 20177 yr by Uncle Fester

I don’t have a problem with the players going through the AFLPA. Even if the players were to directly confront the FD as a group, they would still need one of the players to start the talking. It’s a big ask for someone to be the spokesperson then risk making themselves a future target for the ire of the FD. Going through the PA means no one player has to raise his head above the parapet. 

Interesting that Ben Guthrie posted his article at 5.58pm and accurately quoted what was said at the AGM about the boot camp cancellation. Except it wasn’t said until at least 7.30 pm. That’s a very impressive crystal ball Ben Guthrie is lugging around. Can I have one of those? My betting account is especially in need. 

(As DeeSpencer posted- ‘Story clearly leaked …’  But I prefer the crystal balls explanation.)