Every god damn year we're in the same position. Entering his prime and is being dropped. Will likely get one more year. But 2018 will be his last if he has a similar year.

He needs a Stevie J circa 2007 year in 2018.

What do we really expect Jackie to be ?

An all star game breaker a la #1 pick progidy ?

A Nick Riewoldt type ? 

A decent footy player with skills capable of putting in more good games than vad ?

If its the last hes already got more than half our list covered !!

He's an enigma for sure ol' Jackie 

2 hours ago, mike green said:

Very poor I believe he should be traded ! I think a new start may bring out his full potential. Keeping him on will be just more of the same. 

Good of you to join just to make a crap post

A Jekyll and Hyde year for Jack. After the Bulldogs game I thought he was going to have a better year than 2016 with the form he was in.

Unfortunately it all came crashing down with his hamstring. No doubt came back under done, but he put his hand up for selection which means he was fair game. It was Jack's first significant injury and he and the club handled it poorly. Possibly due to Jack's inexperience on how to properly come back from one.

2018 I'd like to see Jack play more up the ground and use his elite skills to put us in a positions ready to attack. His chemistry with Hogan is also very good so a full year together might help both of them have very good seasons together. Fingers crossed.

Edited September 14, 20177 yr by At the break of Gawn

While I believe we need to keep Jack it's getting a little trite having his defenders week after week year after year come on to threads like these to convince us all of stuff he does that we don't see and all that kind of jazz. Fact of the matter is if he was so great you wouldn't need to keep pointing out these things. He had some massive howlers in the second half of the year and we need to start seeing the consistency. 

And if he was pick #43 I don't think his career would have lasted this long.

While I believe we need to keep Jack it's getting a little trite having his defenders week after week year after year come on to threads like these to convince us all of stuff he does that we don't see and all that kind of jazz. Fact of the matter is if he was so great you wouldn't need to keep pointing out these things. He had some massive howlers in the second half of the year and we need to start seeing the consistency. 

And if he was pick #43 I don't think his career would have lasted this long.

I no longer care if Watts stays on our list or not.

Like a few have already said, his performances up until his injury were average to good for him. He's goal kicking accuracy seems to have improved. But he's awareness and decision making is still far too inadequate, as is his tackling. Also he still struggles to take clean possession of the ball down low.

I don't like fans jeering him, it's counter productive. I'd rather fans express there thoughts to Simon in other ways like, "we want Cam Pederson in the first team!', or something else positive.

One of the most difficult to assess. He is good/smart in the air, incredible with ball in hand but... when they have it his work ethic and effort at ground level generally feels under par. 

I reckon he would have kicked 70 goals a year over the last few seasons playing for say Hawthorn with the ball coming in a lot and with quality but not many teams have that, will be the coaches call based on the structure, game style etc and who he sees fitting into it but tough call from where we sit.

Lest we forget.....

 

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/frustrated-demons-confronted-jack-watts-over-inconsistency-20170919-gyk6fl.html

Yep, send him back to Casey to work on a few things, Maybe Goodwin should do the same.

Not hard enough.

Not tough enough.

Not rough enough.

 

12 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/frustrated-demons-confronted-jack-watts-over-inconsistency-20170919-gyk6fl.html

what a load of fluff really. Bet they didnt have that same convo with Max !!

Does Watts need to lift ? yes ( so do more than a handful of others )  Does he need to play more consistent footy ? ( sdmtahoo )  Is the problem between the ears ?  In the main id have to say yes.  Having said that he definitely seemed constrained after returning.

Is Jack the biggest problem at the Dees ?? far from it

I recall the Cats famous leadership group had the same conversation with G.ablett jnr and it made all the difference. 

They didnt wait for 150 games though, and they were a real leadership group.

Preamble to trade I reckon 

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

what a load of fluff really. Bet they didnt have that same convo with Max !!

Does Watts need to lift ? yes ( so do more than a handful of others )  Does he need to play more consistent footy ? ( sdmtahoo )  Is the problem between the ears ?  In the main id have to say yes.  Having said that he definitely seemed constrained after returning.

Is Jack the biggest problem at the Dees ?? far from it

I think it's pretty close to it.  Our current group of your (potential) stars have got 2 kinds of role models at the club.  The type that prepare like Jack, who get to play 150+ games, mostly on talent alone, and still become long-term AFL players.  The other type is that of the Viney/Stretch ilk - work your backside off, may get to play 150+ games, but won't leave anything in the tank getting there.

You can see what happens to a kid that oozes potential, if he takes the right road.  Oliver.

Next season we need the likes of Petracca, Hogan, Salem, Harmes, Hunt, Kent and Brayshaw to do what Oliver did this year.  Jones says something similar in the articles to show that it's clearly an issue (although he doesn't name specific names).

I get the feeling that even Gawn would've learnt a lot from the mindset he attacked 2016 with, compared to the mindset of 2017.  I sincerely hope that he regains that 2016 attitude.

Goody has proven his disliking for poor prep vs top prep.  It's why guys like ANB, and I'd even suggest OMc, continued to get games, while others like Kent and Watts were dropped when required, and the likes of Kennedy didn't get a sniff.

dal santo on afl tonight said he has no respect from anyone in the afl industry - he can't believe that the same conversations had pre-season are coming up again now in terms of his presentation and preparation

Always difficult to gain a meaningful understanding from the outside with just rumors and media reports to go by.

Watts has had a tough 9 year career at Melbourne from his selection at No.1 right through a trundle of coaching changes and a very disjointed development. To my mind he shows he has plenty of talent but has lacked the direction, development and application required to reach his full potential and to play consistently.

On what has been reported over this season, it is hard to defend him. It was reported that he did not present well on his return to the pre-season and did not do the work as required. He was reasonable when he did make it back into the team with a few highlights but still lacked that edge required to really push himself. after his injury he did not come back at all well and did not seem to do the work required.

If the player leadership and coaches have again sat him down and told him of their problems with him, I hope that he realises that he is on his last legs at the club. If he survives the trade period and is still at Melbourne come the pre-season I hope he has the character to work hard and do what is necessary to win the confidence of his team mates and the coaches.

Trade Watts if we get a deal that delivers value for money. Keep him otherwise. I am sure that the football department is putting in the work to understand Watts and what he thinks of the situation and that may be the key to understanding his value at the trade table and his value to the team next season and the subsequent seasons. Whichever way it goes I will back the club even if jack flourishes elsewhere.

If I was Watts, and I am not, I would want to stay with the team that I have been with for 9 seasons and see the ride through to the end.

On 13/09/2017 at 11:41 AM, stevethemanjordan said:

I'm just waiting for the Oscar McDonald review thread.

 

 

18 hours ago, The Chazz said:

I think it's pretty close to it.

ya see I don't ...think he's the BIGGEST problem, nor even close to it. 

Problems at the MFC ; In no particular order.

Fail to start most games well, forced into catch up footy more than 50%  of the time

Over use of handball

Incapable of sticking tackles

Failure to learn from previous games involving inclement weather

Failure to get proper intel on certain grounds

Poor kicking out/ Kicking straight to opposition players.

Persistence with the Defence Diamond of Death , even when getting split open like a melon.

Too much Hospital Handpassing

Picking poorly and persisting when obviously back too soon  or not "on"

Seems to be a question over soft tissue injuries

Question over ability to care to "Feet"

Lack of a potent forward structure ( actually...do we have one ? ) 

Too slow to change up games after opposition has obviously worked us out ( and over )

Questionable game plan. Back too open, whilst the front is make it up as you go. Mids seem bereft of good m-o going into fwd 50.

Allowing circumstances to prevail that require one of the shorter players ever having to man one of their Taller players, not once, not  twice...but almost systematically !!

Too many players who cant kick 30m goals out front.

General poor kicking .

Not many capable of pack marking

Inability to apply 80% through game....i.e  our BIG FADE -OUTS

General poor leadership on ground

Goody'd got one thing right...we're just a ninth position middle of the road effort.

and

Apparently is all that b&stard Watt's fault !!! 

It's good to work out how to fix everything.. trade Watts

 

56 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Question over ability to care to "Feet"

 

Whas dat?

6 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

Whas dat?

things you walk on and kick with 

18 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

Whas dat?

I'm a bit worried about the same thing - Viney is nowhere near out of the woods with his foot injury. We know how bad they can be (ask Trengove) - and I know that there are many different types of injuries.

Not sure if we have a higher rate than other teams.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

ya see I don't ...think he's the BIGGEST problem, nor even close to it. 

Problems at the MFC ; In no particular order.

Fail to start most games well, forced into catch up footy more than 50%  of the time

Over use of handball

Incapable of sticking tackles

Failure to learn from previous games involving inclement weather

Failure to get proper intel on certain grounds

Poor kicking out/ Kicking straight to opposition players.

Persistence with the Defence Diamond of Death , even when getting split open like a melon.

Too much Hospital Handpassing

Picking poorly and persisting when obviously back too soon  or not "on"

Seems to be a question over soft tissue injuries

Question over ability to care to "Feet"

Lack of a potent forward structure ( actually...do we have one ? ) 

Too slow to change up games after opposition has obviously worked us out ( and over )

Questionable game plan. Back too open, whilst the front is make it up as you go. Mids seem bereft of good m-o going into fwd 50.

Allowing circumstances to prevail that require one of the shorter players ever having to man one of their Taller players, not once, not  twice...but almost systematically !!

Too many players who cant kick 30m goals out front.

General poor kicking .

Not many capable of pack marking

Inability to apply 80% through game....i.e  our BIG FADE -OUTS

General poor leadership on ground

Goody'd got one thing right...we're just a ninth position middle of the road effort.

and

Apparently is all that b&stard Watt's fault !!! 

It's good to work out how to fix everything.. trade Watts

 

While acknowledging you said no particular order, the very first point, the failure to start games well, is more about player preparation than anything else.  Which is exactly what Watts is being questioned about.

You fail to start games well, you get behind on the scoreboard, you are under more pressure to catch up, which equals mistakes being made.  You also give opposition, especially weaker than us, that momentum that can be hard to stop.

Other issues that you mentioned can be put down to injuries, especially this year.

The game plan worked well against Adelaide (the first time), against the Bulldogs.  There's nothing wrong with it when executed by the 22 blokes named.  Where it breaks down is when players don't play their role.  Again, this can come back to preparation.

There's not many games I go to and watch the players in the first warm up, and not know if they are "on" or not.  That's attitude and preparation.

Agan, when you see a 150+ gamer going in to games like that, it's not an ideal thing for those that look up to him as some sort of role model.

37 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

While acknowledging you said no particular order, the very first point, the failure to start games well, is more about player preparation than anything else.  Which is exactly what Watts is being questioned about.

You fail to start games well, you get behind on the scoreboard, you are under more pressure to catch up, which equals mistakes being made.  You also give opposition, especially weaker than us, that momentum that can be hard to stop.

Other issues that you mentioned can be put down to injuries, especially this year.

The game plan worked well against Adelaide (the first time), against the Bulldogs.  There's nothing wrong with it when executed by the 22 blokes named.  Where it breaks down is when players don't play their role.  Again, this can come back to preparation.

There's not many games I go to and watch the players in the first warm up, and not know if they are "on" or not.  That's attitude and preparation.

Agan, when you see a 150+ gamer going in to games like that, it's not an ideal thing for those that look up to him as some sort of role model.

So..Watts is still the main problem?

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

So..Watts is still the main problem?

Watts is a significant contributor to our main problem.