9 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Not convinced on Goodwin just yet but I rate Mahoney highly. Let's see.

Indeed

Let's

Sorry...........on the wrong Watts thread ...................But while I'm here can we keep this thread going next year so the Pro Watts camp can shout about his achievements each week?

8 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Yes but the Jack haters don't see it that way Red, they like to just paint a picture of an under performer who wasn't really very good at anything or didn't perform up to the levels expected most of the time.

Whilst he may not have, he certainly did perform to a level that meant he was easily in our best 22.

By focusing so much on JW, too much emphasis is placed on HIS output vs what's expected and too many others who have severely under performed and in my opinion should have been looked at and moved on before JW, are still there and in many cases have gone under the radar of scrutiny.  Scrutiny of a similar level that's been applied to JW, and rightly so.  For if you aren't going to apply the same principles to all as you did to Jack then good luck getting the best out of the entire playing list and winning a premiership (under the present coach and FD team).

You really believe the coaches aren't all over the performance of every player in the squad? Come on.

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

No average job, McQueen

It’s all relative right up to the point where AFL footballers get absolutely everything provided to them in order to succeed.

4 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

He won't be if he plays at Casey, he'll be a shining example....

And the point of that is?

2 minutes ago, Roost It said:

And the point of that is?

The point's fairly obvious to me

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

The point's fairly obvious to me

So we pay a guy good coin to play for Casey and list clog instead of letting him go to another club which might be just what he needs to reach his potential. If you're a Watts fan your idea is just plain stupid. 

Alot of speculation in this thread. 

Boils down to the FD believing TMAC is more value than Watts in the forward half. Not sure whether id trade him for a pick higher than 20 but can see why the club are interested in whether there are deals to be done. 

I hioe he stays, but wouldnt be upset if we got a 15-25 range pick for him or a best 22-30 range player

3 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Just interested to know how many of those that would trade Jack for his off-feild behavior would have sacked Oliver after his drink driving at the start of the season and how many of those still would now.

Watts is a senior player. Oliver was still a teenager when that happened and afterwards pulled his head in after being spoken to. The rationalisations on here are astounding.

24 minutes ago, Roost It said:

So we pay a guy good coin to play for Casey and list clog instead of letting him go to another club which might be just what he needs to reach his potential. If you're a Watts fan your idea is just plain stupid. 

Who says he'll play for Casey?

 

31 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Watts is a senior player. Oliver was still a teenager when that happened and afterwards pulled his head in after being spoken to. The rationalisations on here are astounding.

Beyond that, he went straight to the club, admitted to have one pint and wasn't really "drunk", was just done because he was on his P's. I think it's one thing to be a teenager and get in trouble for literally having one drink, and being an 8-year player that still needs to have standards set.

3 hours ago, SFebey said:

Oliver is the hardest trainer at the club, never stops trying on-field. JW, well....the opposite.

I'll accept that everyone will apply themselves on the track like Oliver, Jones and Viney when they can all kick like Jack Watts.  From what I understand (and I think his playing body shape would back this up), Jason Dunstall was never a very good trainer at Hawthorn, but I don't think he ever would have been put up for trade mid contact (or ever) and the first bloke you would pick at full forward any day of the week.  Not that Jack has the hundreds of goals to his name that Piggy did, but it's not like Jack's played in side as dominant for his whole career either or has exactly the same attributes.

Basically horses for courses and I really do feel like Jack is being made into a scape goat.  In my veiw, the whole episode has been poorly managed by the club, particularly post season, with Jones, Goodwin and Co comming out and publicly criticizing him.  I do feel like the club is making a huge mistake putting up a player who has put faith in the club over a long period up as a bargaining chip mid contract - hardly the sort of thing that will encourage mutual commitment to the team by talented players in the future.

4 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

These young men have hardly had a life

I observed a young T Cloke growing up and watched him as his spirit, creativity and sense of fun disappear, as his footy consumed him 24/7

This could be JW's version of teenage angst

One of the thinge I despise about this so called professional era.  These guys are entitled to have a life, have different personalities and not be robots all the time.  I think Roos understood that and managed his team accordingly, but I'm not sure that Goodwin does.

Can I just say, I am in Adelaide now and I haven't seen Jack Watts here. Mind you, I am in the dodgy part of Hindley St and I've only been here 3 hours. I will keep my eyes peeled.

3 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

Jack's cryptic Instagram post, for those who haven't seen it yet. 

 

Don't think it's meant to be cryptic, his girlfriend is in pic and is overseas ATM so he's probably flying over to see her soon

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Rubbish comparison and you know it.  Oliver is a kid who needed to learn a lesson.  Not only did he learn from it, he smashed it on the track and we've seen the benefits of that.

Jack is a 9 year veteran who still needs struggles for consistency in many facets of his game, both on and off field, when he should be setting the example for the kids.

Kids absolutely love Jack. Have a look at the number 4s you see at a game. Also he is great with kids.

3 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Kids absolutely love Jack. Have a look at the number 4s you see at a game. Also he is great with kids.

Ummmmm...he's referring to the "kids" or younger players on our list.

7 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Kids absolutely love Jack. Have a look at the number 4s you see at a game. Also he is great with kids.

I'm talking about players, not actual kids. I didn't think I'd need to explain that. 

5 hours ago, Roost It said:

Jacks a culture sore and you can't see it

Culture sore my osel.

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by Bobby McKenzie

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Rubbish comparison and you know it.  Oliver is a kid who needed to learn a lesson.  Not only did he learn from it, he smashed it on the track and we've seen the benefits of that.

Jack is a 9 year veteran who still needs struggles for consistency in many facets of his game, both on and off field, when he should be setting the example for the kids.

I agree, it's not a direct comparison on all fronts, but it's more about not cutting off your nose to spite your face and over reactions to the situation.  Similar analogy would be those that were saying it was Tommy Bugg's last game after his brain fade against Sydney/Mills, that wasn't his first chave either and had been comming over a course of weeks.  Haven't heard Bugg's name mentioned in any trade rumors.

I thought on the whole Watts season was pretty acceptable.  Pleanty of other players who struggled in the second half of the season returning from injury - Gawn had minimal impact, Jones was hit and miss, Garlett (and half of the team) horrible agianst Collingwood, Salem had to be dropped and Viney after all his heroics probably pushed his body too hard and broke down again as a result and was unavailable through that for crucial games.

If you want the young guys to learn how to kick for goal, don't expect them to looking up to Viney.  Jack Watts definitely sets the standard there.  Though Tom Mac Donald is probably now getting close to Watts in front of goal, I don't quite think he is there - I recon Watts would have taken and nailed that shot from 50 against Collingwood in Rd 23, just like he did with a number of similar shots to win us the game against the on Queens birthday Monday.

Is there a chance this whole episode is a surreptitious rocket for Jack? He's unlikely to secure a trade just because of the way the chips have fallen so will wind up staying at Melbourne. Perhaps will shake off some of his apathy and if not then really on the block next year? He frustrates me but he's also been part of a club that went to hell and back during his time. I've always hoped Melbourne's success would come with Jack Watts part of it so both sides were validated. Just a dream I guess.

5 hours ago, Redleg said:

To me it looks like Jack would prefer the Cats, but they are playing a game saying they can't get the deal done. We have obviously asked for their 20 and they have refused.

Port has made him an offer and we would accept their 29.

If Jack says Port the deal will be done instantly.

I think the Cats have told him to hold on, to see if they can bluff us, or find out the Motlop compo.

If we hold firm I think we either get 20 from the Cats or 29 from Port.

I think we would be duding our selves for those trades when Devon Smith and pick twenty something went for pick 11 and thirty something from Essendon.  Please don't anyone try telling me that Devon Smith, who didn't even make their best 22 for their prelim is anywhere as good as Watts.

We now have essentially two second round picks after the Lever deal and will end up not having had a first round pick in three years if we don't get up there again this year.  If anything good comes of trading out Watts, my take is we need to somehow work a first Rd pick in there.  Our recruiters seem to be pretty good at finding dimonds in the rough, but I doubt Clarry or Weid would have been there in the second round of the draft.

46 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Alot of speculation in this thread. 

Boils down to the FD believing TMAC is more value than Watts in the forward half. Not sure whether id trade him for a pick higher than 20 but can see why the club are interested in whether there are deals to be done. 

I hioe he stays, but wouldnt be upset if we got a 15-25 range pick for him or a best 22-30 range player

Only Port are within cooee of offering what Melbourne want and that’s pick 29. Unfortunalty for us non pressuring forwards are out of favour. 

46 minutes ago, qwerty7 said:

Don't think it's meant to be cryptic, his girlfriend is in pic and is overseas ATM so he's probably flying over to see her soon

Yep, got my wife to decipher it. Same conclusion, she's been away for a while.

Damn, thought he was staying.

11 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

Only Port are within cooee of offering what Melbourne want and that’s pick 29. Unfortunalty for us non pressuring forwards are out of favour. 

I hope we retain himif thats the best offer going.