I have no doubt that our 12 wins season for 2017 was well short of what the team SHOULD have achieved - 16 wins minimum IMO.

I shouldn't have to explain why - every Melbourne supporter with a ruthless streak, who follows footy - and I mean follows footy -  knows why.

As soon as the players and coaches develop a ruthless spine of expectation and MATURE, and ignore the pitter patter of pats on the back from the 'Cheese Platter' brigade - the more RESPECT they will have from the comp and opposition supporters.

Finishing OFF opposing teams by putting foot to their throat when in front by 4 or 5 goals, instead of putting the 'cue in the rack' or clocking off early with plenty of game time left...is a hallmark of a ruthless team and club.

 

Another thing.....

Disgraceful starts to games says more about mindset and preparation before games than just the players performance themselves. Ben Dixon highlighted perfectly the lack of defensive pressure v Brisbane through visual examples on League Teams on Fox Footy Channel and described it "very lazy" - suggested that if Collingwood started like they did v Adelaide and Geelong - that the Pies could tear the Dees a new one in the first quarter. He said the Demons needed to be on the ball from the start and work hard defensively because of the Pies midfield and their kicking efficiency early in games.

Now, I'd like to think our coaching staff are thorough! Thorough enough to take note of footy analysis which is easily accessible by experts. But given the output in the first quarter on Saturday - leaves a lot to be desired and tells me very much - how prepared the team actually was, and how much they were switched ON.

 

Finals have been a KPI for 2 years. Failed both times. If we don't make finala next year then Goodwin would be under enourmous pressure. Top 4 should be the goal. However many wins that takes.

Agree. Need 14 wins or more. Need to push for 4th to 6th positions. 

We can get above others.

AS YOU GET HIGHER, THE MOUNTAIN GETS TOUGHER TO CLIMB.

Every half decent side expects a couple of upset losses a season. A sliver of percentage kept us out of the eight and if we won half of the upset losses and finished off our wins we could have been top four. I watched all of these games live or on TV and we made North, Freo, Hawks, Collingwood, GC and Brisbane look like top four sides for most or part of those  games. Even though we got very close in the final quarter of all of those losses there was a feeling it was like climbing Everest without oxygen to overcome one or a couple of goals. The same as in 2016. Their is some serious headspace issues to overcome at the club that is killing our progress.

16 wins would have had us first on this ladder this season, so it is absolutely ludicrous to have that as the benchmark for next year.

14 wins gets you in the conversation for top 4, and that is what we should be aspiring to. We won 12 this year and let slip opportunities in half a dozen others, so 14 is doable. 

Whilst I agree 14 is probably around the mark we should aim for, I can't help but think we are setting ourselves up for disappointment when more games against North and co are dropped.

13-15 should be expected. Anything less is another failed season

I know what i should expect. I know what id like to expect to happen.

And yet I don't expect anything. It's MELBOURNE. 

I'm not being negative, pessimistic, mfcss or "season's stuffed hangover" when i just think if they didn't understand causecand effect this year why will they next ?

None of this lot seem to get it.

We're all hype and fluff and the clubs motto ought to be "et faciam dies unus"  .. Will do it one day...i.e...The Gunnas !!

I seriously don't expect anything from us anymore, again, anytime soon. 

14-15 wins would be nice. A shiny Jag in the drive would be nice too. I just don't expect it.

I'll just watch. NO expectations. I'm tired of being Charlie Brown.

Our list is in the premiership window next year. Flag or failure. 

15 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

13-15 should be expected. Anything less is another failed season

Agree with this.

I will add though, that this weekend has dissolved a lot of the faith and trust I had conjured up about our playing group throughout the year, who knows what they will dish up next year.

 

54 minutes ago, poita said:

16 wins would have had us first on this ladder this season, so it is absolutely ludicrous to have that as the benchmark for next year.

14 wins gets you in the conversation for top 4, and that is what we should be aspiring to. We won 12 this year and let slip opportunities in half a dozen others, so 14 is doable. 

Bullsh!t it's ludicrous. Have higher expectations. If you want to set the bar low, the lower you're more likely to achieve. This is the exact kind of mentality I'm talking about.

Be ruthless.

Some games have been mentioned above. If others recall, we were in it up to our necks in the Richmond and Geelong games - played reasonably well, but for injuries at critical times and hampered in ruck and rotations.

16+ was definitely achievable this year and as such should be the benchmark in 2018. Set it high! #ruthless

 

Another..:

Celebrating a finals berth next year will happen naturally for many yet to experience finals. But for many who have suffered, a finals showing is NOT enough - winning finals and achieving a premiership is where the satisfaction is, and what it should be for the players as an achievement. The players should sense this from the fans.

Making the final 8 - is not enough for many. And after what's happened in the last decade - it shouldn't be for the club.

#ruthless

 

Edited August 29, 20178 yr by H_T

There's a heap of pressure on Goody's new game plan now. He'll need to refresh it and bring something back even better as clubs have now worked out the coming off the square stuff.

We are not good enough to get to 16 wins

We are an average side still in development mode

Since Roos we have gone 4, 7, 10 and then 12 wins under first year of Goodwin

Continuing this trajectory is the desire, not the minimum KPI

I would like to see us hit 14-16 wins but like everyone I have zero expectations that we can actually achieve this cos, well...MFCSS

Edited August 29, 20178 yr by DemonAndrew

Change your mindset, change your expectation.

What do you think the Clarkson's of this world do? The Hawthorn's, Sydney's and Geelong's of the world do?

They 'expect' to finish high and give themselves the best chance of winning a flag. They don't just make finals for the hell of it and a pat on the back.

They're ruthless. ANd THAT is their culture they nurture and instill in everyone who enters their doors from the first meeting.

Rid yourself of your MFCSS, your cheese platters, and golf clap. FCS.

 

 

Edited August 29, 20178 yr by H_T

Saturday was excruciating but let's remember that in reality, we had played patchy footy for about the last two months.  Nowhere near the level we were playing at in the early rounds or mid-year when we smashed an admittedly out of sorts Bulldogs.  

I think that another pre-season will do wonders for some otherwise tired minds and bodies of the younger brigade.  But we desperately need some pace and class.  People on this site don't seem to like G.Lyon for whatever reason (clearly never saw him play for us) but he's always spot on the money with his analysis, and he mentioned Lachie Whitfield as the exact type of player we need next year.  I couldn't agree more....he's a jet, not quite Josh Kelly but exactly the type of player we need.  

If we don't add to the list with either a Lever or a Whitfield, then I think we'll tread water next year with another 11-12 wins.  Those guys will be the difference in terms of getting us up to 14-15 wins that we need.

One final thing - the weekend hurts like hell but I think it might be a good thing long term.  If we'd made the finals, got beaten by 4-5 goals against the Swans, we would have got pats on the back and acknowledgement of a great year.  They might have expected it all just to happen next year.  They won't expect it all to happen now.  This should absolutely burn in the guts throughout pre-season and next year. 

We ended the season only 3 and a half games off the top of the ladder this season. Let that sink in.

The club should be absolutely livid with how they let this season slip away. And I'm not just talking about making finals. We blew a golden opportunity to go deep in finals and really compete.

12 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

We ended the season only 3 and a half games off the top of the ladder this season. Let that sink in.

The club should be absolutely livid with how they let this season slip away. And I'm not just talking about making finals. We blew a golden opportunity to go deep in finals and really compete.

Yes!

13 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

We ended the season only 3 and a half games off the top of the ladder this season. Let that sink in.

The club should be absolutely livid with how they let this season slip away. And I'm not just talking about making finals. We blew a golden opportunity to go deep in finals and really compete.

and gee...not hard to think of three games eh?? 

1 hour ago, poita said:

16 wins would have had us first on this ladder this season, so it is absolutely ludicrous to have that as the benchmark for next year.

14 wins gets you in the conversation for top 4, and that is what we should be aspiring to. We won 12 this year and let slip opportunities in half a dozen others, so 14 is doable. 

In the first 19 games we were level or ahead in every game bar two in the last quarter.

Our problem is mental toughness, pea hearts and leadership. 

Setting win goals is a useless exercise. Show some [censored] hurt, mongrel and desire. No one gives it to you. you have to go and take it. 

I get why we're talking number of 'wins' as a measurement but why are we not also mentioning percentage!? Especially after the weekend!? 

We should be putting other teams to the sword with +115.00%

2 minutes ago, the rolling fog said:

I get why we're talking number of 'wins' as a measurement but why are we not also mentioning percentage!? Especially after the weekend!? 

We should be putting other teams to the sword with +115.00%

yes....very much so.  There were definitely some wise folk among us who mentioned this very early in the year. Well done to them.

Even in the games this year , it would have been  about not conceding late goals..about keeping the effort up to them ALL game. Someone put it as little as two goals for the whole season.

I wonder how many times through the season a player or two has thought...'bugger that..let it through etc.." only to then consider..well its only one goal in a whole season !!  

What was it they say......mind the pennies the pounds will look after themselves. 

We need to play more accountably...for the whole game.. Again this will come back to mental toughness

8 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

 Setting win goals is a useless exercise.

They set a goal to just play finals. That worked out well...

When you set the bar high - and I mean high - mongrel and desire and focus come with the territory.

You need a clearly defined goal. That's straight out of Clarko's notebook.

9 minutes ago, the rolling fog said:

I get why we're talking number of 'wins' as a measurement but why are we not also mentioning percentage!? Especially after the weekend!? 

We should be putting other teams to the sword with +115.00%

Absolutely. 125% +

2 minutes ago, H_T said:

They set a goal to just play finals. That worked out well...

When you set the bar high - and I mean high - mongrel and desire and focus come with the territory.

You need a clearly defined goal. That's straight out of Clarko's notebook.

but I take Jnr's point though... whilst the idea is correct...we arent  too flash at enacting it. Therefore....

2 minutes ago, H_T said:

They set a goal to just play finals. That worked out well...

When you set the bar high - and I mean high - mongrel and desire and focus come with the territory.

You need a clearly defined goal. That's straight out of Clarko's notebook.

This