14 hours ago, deejammin' said:

The umpiring was horrendous and one sided today. We were legitamitely smashing St Kilda in the first half yet they had the rub of the green on free kicks and had a few questionable ones get them goals. Then the 3rd quarter was totally baffling and some of the most biased, one sided umpiring I've ever seen.

The Max Gawn decisions weren't just a weird rule of the week thing, they were a weird rule of the week, only being enforced in one game, against one player thing. Not only do the AFL have to stop this tinkering with the rules mid-season that leaves players, fans and clearly umpires confused, but they need to explain better to the players BEFORE the game what the new focus is and how it will be enforced. Clearly Gawn and Longer had no idea what frees were getting paid for, but bizarrely Longer could shove Max in the front or face for no penalty, whereas if Max put an arm up to protect himself when Longer jumped on him it was a free. It was totally pathetic and the only reason St Kilda got back in the game. 5 easy centre clearances is what it gifted the Saints and that is massive in modern footy.

As for the general umpiring the reason missed decisions hurt us so badly is our contested style. We rely on winning the ball honestly in the contest, or winning it back from tackling (HTB), incorrect disposal or turnover. When umpires constantly miss HTB, drops, throws or players holding the man at stoppage it allows teams to get on the outside and pull apart our structure. Numerous times today we nailed holding or dropping the ball in a tackle only to see it illegally get out to St Kildas runners and let them go forward. We were held, jumped on high and in the back all day for no free We also had numerous times where we won the contest but had wrong free kicks gave the ball back to St Kilda. This hurts us far more than teams who slingshot from the back and rely on intercept and turnover for obvious reasons. It's the main reason why bad adjudication kills us for playing a good game style and must be fixed!

Some of my favourite terrible decisions were:

All the Max ones, just complete trash

The Jetta one, so so wrong.

 In the third Petracca nailed a tackle on Geary who dropped the ball yet was awarded holding the man as we streamed into goal. Then a minute later Bradshaw was clearly held in their forward line without the ball, no free, nails a tackle and the player tries to kick and fails to in the tackle, no free, St Kilda goal.

Umpires need to be full time, highly paid and only focussed on umpiring all week, with strong performance review and thethreat of being dropped if they fail to meet performance criteria. We have players, coaches, administrators who all live by the sword with their performances but the people who hold the integrity of the sport's rules within their grasp are part time moonlighters with no culpability. It's baffling!

I don't think dropping the ball even gets paid anymore. Spot on though.

Pay them properly. make them accountable and drop them when they're crap

apparently it was the 'rule of the week' - no straight arm fending off in the ruck contests

apparently roughead got pinged for it a few times for footscray too

Re: umpiring performance yesterday at the 'G'. Here's my two bob's worth, as a neutral observer of the Hawks v Kangaroos game in Tassie.  A young woman Eleni Glouftsis, at the commencement of her career as an AFL umpire adjudicated the match with more aplomb than her more senior colleagues did earlier in the day. Her bouncing of the ball at the centre bounces was also markedly superior.

The other bob; sackcloth and ashes for Saint Kilda another preseason of penance ahead!

20 hours ago, Demi Dee said:

Knowing our luck we'll reach the grand final and have Razor and Nicholls officiate proceedings. 

And they will bring back McInerney just for a cameo ???

2 minutes ago, monoccular said:

And they will bring back McInerney just for a cameo ???

Can't remember him mono, what was his claim to fame? What era?

Most of the free kicks against Gawn at the centre bounce were NOT in the spirit of the game. Furthermore, those decisions showed a lack of football intelligence by the umpire(s) adjudicating.

Is this the only time ever that a group of employees are so poor at their job and the solution to the problem is to increase their pay?

5 hours ago, MT64 said:

Your dead right. Let's start with existing rules  -  like "in the back", "tripping" and "dropping (non-disposal) of the ball.

Dropping the ball is an old rule - as you alluded its now incorrect disposal. And a free is paid only after the ball carrier has had prior opportunity and is tackled correctly.

So:

No prior: Tackled - ball held - ball up, Ball spills free - play on

Prior: Tackled - ball held - free kick; ball spills free or incorrectly disposed by hand or foot - free kick; correctly diposed - play on.

But you have 3 umpires all with a different view of the incident and a different interpretation.

I am amazed how many obvious frees are not paid - primarily for the sake of a free flowing spectacle.

Edited August 14, 20177 yr by jnrmac

26 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Most of the free kicks against Gawn at the centre bounce were NOT in the spirit of the game. Furthermore, those decisions showed a lack of football intelligence by the umpire(s) adjudicating.

Good luck finding some intelligence with midget [censored] Ray

I looked at that demented dwarf Ray Chamberlain yesterday  and thought to myself, " Where are the other 6 ??? "

4 hours ago, Tilbrooktorpedo said:

Re: umpiring performance yesterday at the 'G'. Here's my two bob's worth, as a neutral observer of the Hawks v Kangaroos game in Tassie.  A young woman Eleni Glouftsis, at the commencement of her career as an AFL umpire adjudicated the match with more aplomb than her more senior colleagues did earlier in the day. Her bouncing of the ball at the centre bounces was also markedly superior.

The other bob; sackcloth and ashes for Saint Kilda another preseason of penance ahead!

I said this after our Gold Coast game. My concluded difference between her and the likes of 'Razor' Ray: an absence of ego. No surprise that Nicholls has been extra prickish since Max sent his errant bounce for hike.

While half of this thread deserves to be sent to the Demonland dark-web, umpires hold biases like any other human beings; against/for certain players and against/for the tactics/personality of teams rather than the clubs themselves.

My concern however is that the umpires often seem to be on the look-out for specific things re. Melbourne and our players - and that's perhaps where AFLHQ or the Ump panel may have had some influence in issuing directives pre-game. After Bugg's indiscretion and the media on Melbourne's indiscipline, the umps were watching us like hawks.

I can't recall the last time we had a free well off the ball, or had one go in our favour by the non-officiating ump 100m away. Could be my bias. But the reported pre-warnings to Petracca (and I've heard this directed at other of our players before) sit uneasy with me. Quietly mention something to a player once if you have to, but not repeatedly at the stoppages. 

4 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I said this after our Gold Coast game. My concluded difference between her and the likes of 'Razor' Ray: an absence of ego. No surprise that Nicholls has been extra prickish since Max sent his errant bounce for hike.

While half of this thread deserves to be sent to the Demonland dark-web, umpires hold biases like any other human beings; against/for certain players and against/for the tactics/personality of teams rather than the clubs themselves.

My concern however is that the umpires often seem to be on the look-out for specific things re. Melbourne and our players - and that's perhaps where AFLHQ or the Ump panel may have had some influence in issuing directives pre-game. After Bugg's indiscretion and the media on Melbourne's indiscipline, the umps were watching us like hawks.

I can't recall the last time we had a free well off the ball, or had one go in our favour by the non-officiating ump 100m away. Could be my bias. But the reported pre-warnings to Petracca (and I've heard this directed at other of our players before) sit uneasy with me. Quietly mention something to a player once if you have to, but not repeatedly at the stoppages. 

Why?

4 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Why?

Because posters are making accusations of a highly criminal activity with multiple conspirators at all levels of the game without sufficient evidence.

Our club has copped for years. Razor ray hates us and after what he said to Trac i hate 100% more. 

How about they sending them to the seconds for every mistake that's made like they used too?

Also what the hell has happened to holding the ball? What bright wit changed that rule?

 

The boys on AFL: On the Couch aren't too happy with the umpiring against Maxy too.

3 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

I looked at that demented dwarf Ray Chamberlain yesterday  and thought to myself, " Where are the other 6 ??? "

Apparently when Gawn complained to Ray Chamberlain about the free kicks, Ray said "i'm not happy"

Gawn said "Well which one are you then!"

 

Boom tish 

Seriously, ok... we all saw Toby's foot in the face of Dahlhaus. Shocking, unfortunate, but possibly a fact of the game. 

But where is the line for Gawny, who was merely defending himself in a fac-plant contest. 

Both players allegedly 'defending themselves' one gets a free (Bonger) the other gives a free (Greene)... 

There's some very clear inconsistencies here, only able to be understood or judged in a public and transparent post game review of decisions (or indecisions as others have correctly pointed out).

Like others, I've always accepted umpiring decisions, but this recent (2017) policy of awarding frees in order to 'balance' the game, for what many suppose may be linked directly (or indirectly) to the broadcast sponsors and/or betting agencies, is the biggest joke...   

Gilly needs to recognise that the only gap in our elite game now is the lack of 100% fully committed professional umpires. Those that are paid full time, and awarded and ranked on their performance after post match reviews.

Pay them more, the AFL has the money, but make them accountable!

 

 

 

21 hours ago, deejammin' said:

The umpiring was horrendous and one sided today. We were legitamitely smashing St Kilda in the first half yet they had the rub of the green on free kicks and had a few questionable ones get them goals. Then the 3rd quarter was totally baffling and some of the most biased, one sided umpiring I've ever seen.

The Max Gawn decisions weren't just a weird rule of the week thing, they were a weird rule of the week, only being enforced in one game, against one player thing. Not only do the AFL have to stop this tinkering with the rules mid-season that leaves players, fans and clearly umpires confused, but they need to explain better to the players BEFORE the game what the new focus is and how it will be enforced. Clearly Gawn and Longer had no idea what frees were getting paid for, but bizarrely Longer could shove Max in the front or face for no penalty, whereas if Max put an arm up to protect himself when Longer jumped on him it was a free. It was totally pathetic and the only reason St Kilda got back in the game. 5 easy centre clearances is what it gifted the Saints and that is massive in modern footy.

As for the general umpiring the reason missed decisions hurt us so badly is our contested style. We rely on winning the ball honestly in the contest, or winning it back from tackling (HTB), incorrect disposal or turnover. When umpires constantly miss HTB, drops, throws or players holding the man at stoppage it allows teams to get on the outside and pull apart our structure. Numerous times today we nailed holding or dropping the ball in a tackle only to see it illegally get out to St Kildas runners and let them go forward. We were held, jumped on high and in the back all day for no free We also had numerous times where we won the contest but had wrong free kicks gave the ball back to St Kilda. This hurts us far more than teams who slingshot from the back and rely on intercept and turnover for obvious reasons. It's the main reason why bad adjudication kills us for playing a good game style and must be fixed!

Some of my favourite terrible decisions were:

All the Max ones, just complete trash

The Jetta one, so so wrong.

 In the third Petracca nailed a tackle on Geary who dropped the ball yet was awarded holding the man as we streamed into goal. Then a minute later Bradshaw was clearly held in their forward line without the ball, no free, nails a tackle and the player tries to kick and fails to in the tackle, no free, St Kilda goal.

Umpires need to be full time, highly paid and only focussed on umpiring all week, with strong performance review and thethreat of being dropped if they fail to meet performance criteria. We have players, coaches, administrators who all live by the sword with their performances but the people who hold the integrity of the sport's rules within their grasp are part time moonlighters with no culpability. It's baffling!

Great summary of just one game's mistakes, mind you. If you would allow me just one more observation. Remove these Umpires, they have had their chances, and proven to be morally corrupt at the whim of a higher authority...........

Never has so much truth been spoken by so few, about so many. Rest easy fellas, by speaking the TRUTH, which i have totally supported all year, we have just made sure that our beloved Team will not get a fair deal for the rest of the year.... WGAF.......

On a side note i nearly cried when i heard the unbridled sympathy for St Kilda's loss on 360......

How is Razor allowed to have such a big ego. 

There needs to be an MRP for umpires

13/8 was an inside job

For those that think we have been on the rough end of the stick.............well you're right. The HS article "Free kicks: the teams right at home" shows that over the last 10 years, we have the lowest differential for free kicks for vs free kicks against for victorian teams playing home games against interstate one's.

The overall differential list has the Weagles benefiting the most as the home team (surprise surprise). I'm not sure where we fall in terms of differential overall (we aren't in the top 9), but i think i have a pretty good idea where we might be.

7 hours ago, Males said:

The boys on AFL: On the Couch aren't too happy with the umpiring against Maxy too.

Good because not one word was mentioned on AFL360. Muppets.

7 hours ago, willmoy said:

Never has so much truth been spoken by so few, about so many. Rest easy fellas, by speaking the TRUTH, which i have totally supported all year, we have just made sure that our beloved Team will not get a fair deal for the rest of the year.... WGAF.......

On a side note i nearly cried when i heard the unbridled sympathy for St Kilda's loss on 360......

Just a passing mention on Gussie and that was our lot. Hopefully with JL on tonight we might, just might, get a reasonable airing. Not holding my breath. We are going to have to do a "bulldogs" and win to get fair airplay. We are coming from a long way back.

11 hours ago, Skuit said:

Because posters are making accusations of a highly criminal activity with multiple conspirators at all levels of the game without sufficient evidence.

Just being clear that I made no accusations, merely hypotheses.