Some interesting comments from Jason Dunstall on our perceived 'discipline issues' on Fox Footy tonight. 

With Bernie's latest sin-binning, our suspension list this year is admittedly pretty damning. Dunstall reckoned this all reminded him of the young Hawks (post 2008) getting used to a new aggressive game style. He said 'it's maybe not such a bad thing' and these teething problems are common to 'good teams on the rise'.

It's a nice perspective I'm willing to subscribe to because whilst the suspensions are frustrating and costly, personally I love our new toughness and aggression! 

Given Goodwin's comments last week on shaping culture and what that looks like, I think Dunstall's comments may ring true. 

Being nice never won the war.

Thoughts?...

There's a difference between playing the game with ruthless aggression and committing stupid acts that are ruthless and aggressive. Bernie's act was stupid and shouldn't be looked positively upon

Just now, DemonLad5 said:

There's a difference between playing the game with ruthless aggression and committing stupid acts that are ruthless and aggressive. Bernie's act was stupid and shouldn't be looked positively upon

I agree Bernies particular act was foolish, as with others this year.

Just interested in the broader shift in game style / philosophy for a developing team and the associated 'turbulence' we may be witnessing as a result. 

 

Seriously though, I tend to agree that aggression is to some extent like any skill- it takes times to hone it properly, know when to use it, or to choose another one from your arsenal.

But I think that only applies to players at the younger end of the list. The more experienced players should theoretically already know how to play with a hard edge without crossing the line. And when one of your teammates is suspended, you'd think it would be easier to rein in similar acts. The heat of the moment isn't a valid excuse when the coaches are asking players to stay switched on for 4 quarters.

Will be interesting to see if we get better at toeing the line over time.

Just now, Deemented Are Go! said:

I agree Bernies particular act was foolish, as with others this year.

Just interested in the broader shift in game style / philosophy for a developing team and the associated 'turbulence' we may be witnessing as a result. 

Dunstall pretty much telling us what we already knew -  We are a young team on the rise. Doesn't make me any happier about the Bernie incident 

2 minutes ago, Dees_In_October said:

 

I knew that would happen! 

Bernies hit on Betts was a cheapie that was never going to have the effect of curbing Eddie. The negatives outweighed the positives but if the intention was to make Betts uncomfortable, then I applaud it wholeheartedly. Teams used to think they'd have a soft victory over the dees every time. That's no longer the case.

Has anyone seen the footage of Walker's strike on Lewis (and the attempt at a retribution by Lewis that Ralph was rabbiting on about on SEN)?

If you look at all the incidents in isolation, they're mostly just the standard or coincidentally-concentrated rather than a result of dirty tactics or an aggressive approach - barring perhaps Lewis on Cripps. Bugg, and the harsh whacks from the MRP have also inflated the total figure of weeks lost to suspension.

Hogan, Salem, and Bugg were frustrated responses to niggle (with yes, all going too far through poor individual discipline). Bernie has been doing this crap for two years and his propensity for doing so seems to exist outside of a conscious decision-making process. 

I'd say it's just as much a result of desire to perform (leading to frustration when it's not smooth-sailing) and our improvement resulting in closer opposition checking than it has to do with an aggressive approach. All of the suspensions have been off the ball rather than squaring someone up in the contest.

I'm far happier we're being accused of playing on the edge and sometimes stepping over than being taunted with playing bruse free.

Bernie is sitting on 79 games for the club. I think it was nasher in another thread who said it would be great if he could make it to 100 to get life membership at the club. 

The game is catching up with him and I doubt he will be playing in 2019.

This suspension might make the achievement just out of reach which would be a real shame.

Means nothing if we miss the finals, which are very important for this group going forward. Even if we lose by 100 in the first week, we need the experience of the lead up and pressure of finals football. 

I don't have an issue with it. 

Playing on the edge but to be honest we've fallen over the edge too many times for my liking, and it's mostly been senior players doing to the more unnecessary acts. 

But that said I do think it's a step we need to take to be a contender, we'll find the middle ground eventually. 

You don't need fists or elbows to be tough.

Watch how Neville Jetta tackles an opponent. He drives them into the ground, legally. This is Defence 101 and properly controlled aggression.

And much to Jetta's credit, he's been like this since day one.

Head over the ball is the toughest thing a player can do.

Bernie is the furthest thing from tough imo.

Anyone who consistently commits the pointless and spine-less acts that he does with throwing an arm or elbow out is a team-killer. Especially given the talent he has and what he can offer the team at his best.

Dunstall was alluding to the young Hawks of that time. Vince is supposed to be a leader and is a veteran.

Would love for someone to count the amount of times he's been charged/booked for similar acts since his time with us. Would have to be up there with the most of any player over the last three years. 

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Head over the ball is the toughest thing a player can do.

Douglas put his head over the ball. Vince was a fraction late and went the man. Tends to do that a fair bit, does our Bernie 

3 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Douglas put his head over the ball. Vince was a fraction late and went the man. Tends to do that a fair bit, does our Bernie 

Cool story.

I was referring to the Vince elbow, Salem elbow, Lewis punch and Bugg punch.

1 minute ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Cool story.

I was referring to the Vince elbow, Salem elbow, Lewis punch and Bugg punch.

OK.  Thanks for not articulating that in the post I quoted of yours

Just now, Moonshadow said:

OK.  Thanks for not articulating that in the post I quoted of yours

The Hogan punch too.

I think Bernie's undisciplined acts have overshadowed his performance. His shut down role on Sloane was first class. He has shut down the best of them and is damaging 

He needs to pull his head in and be known for the class footballer he can be.

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Head over the ball is the toughest thing a player can do.

There's nothing tough about sitting in the grandstands for the next fortnight 

Bernie just needs to camouflage himself with some black and yellow, or some blue and white ,red and white etc.

He's fine 

22 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Douglas put his head over the ball. Vince was a fraction late and went the man. Tends to do that a fair bit, does our Bernie 

Vince hardly went the man in this incident.  Slow motion makes everything look ten times worse than it is.  If you look at the video, I recon Bernie actually drops his body a bit as well, which saved him opening him right up.  Two players going hard at the ball, one arrives a fraction later than the other and probably cops him a bit high, with medium to low impact.  Free kick, end of story.  Players also have a responsibility to protect themselves to an extent by turning side on to contests and not going all out camakazi like Angus Brashaw has done on many occasions.  There is brave and there is crazy brave too.