List Structure: What do we actually need?

[pineapple dee 2,892]

How about some massive beast that can lead and mark and kick straight and take a pack mark and embarrasses defenders  ( someone like Ben Brown but with a more attractive  ' boat race '. Now that's what I want

[deelete my account 1,194]

4 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

How about some massive beast that can lead and mark and kick straight and take a pack mark and embarrasses defenders  ( someone like Ben Brown but with a more attractive  ' boat race '. Now that's what I want

How about Max Gawn given more time up forward?!

Edited August 8, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[JackDeMan 42]

Before bringing anyone in (and I think each club has to have at least 4 draft picks, or trade them), you have to make room on the list. On other words, it is a List Management exercise.

Out of contract are Heritier Lumumba (already gone, but was in the Senior list at the start of the year), Jack Trengove (lost too much time in the game due to injuries and we now have too many players like him, but they are a bit better), Jake Spencer (Cam Pedersen can backup Max Gawn while Mitch King is developing in the VFL), and Liam Hulett (no games in 2 years).

Already into the Senior list from the Rookie list are Joel Smith and Corey Maynard.

So that means some contracted players need to be traded or delisted and paid out, players such as:

• Ben Kennedy - no AFL games this year despite being in VFL best players almost every week - untradeable
• Colin Garland - cannot see him getting another game at senior level - untradeable
• Tomas Bugg - better players on the list and let himself and the team down - tradeable
• Jack Watts - lost favour with Simon Goodwin due to lack of fitness at the start of the season, and form since returning from only a 4-week injury layoff has been deplorable - tradeable
• Dean Kent - seems to have lost favour after the departure of Paul Roos - tradeable, but I like him as a player. Can he be developed into an outside mid, especially with his pace?

Apart from Jake Lever, who I think we should target first to further improve our defence, there are a few midfielders at a level lower than Dustin Martin and Josh Kelly that might be available, but may only require a second round draft pick plus a player to get the trade done. These players were out of contract at the start of the year, and I am unsure if some of them have already re-signed with their clubs

• David Zaharakis - unsure if he has re-signed with Essendon yet
• Jack Billings - unsure if he has re-signed with St Kilda yet
• Jacob Hopper - GWS
• Gary Ablett - one year left with Gold Coast but appears to want out - can we get him for a couple of years - Geelong don't seem to be all that interested.

 

 

 

[Dirts 429]

8 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

As unfortunate as it is for Garland, I think keeping him on the list for his last year is pointless from a list management perspective. Clearly he is not our future, and wasn't even best 22 before he did his knee. Put a year of important development into a youngster or give Garland a year to get his knee right so that he can at best be a depth defender before he is released at the end of 2019? It's a no-brainer really.

As for needs and wants, I see our list having a few problem areas, a big one being the following:

One thing I've noticed with us however is that if an opposition team brings and maintains the same level of pressure and aggression at the contest as we apply, we seem to really struggle. It seems we only have one way of playing. Bully and outmuscle an opposition team at the contest and hope that we get on top in that area.

We've basically built a midfield + depth for that kind of football and I'm fully aware that it's that kind of footy that stands up in finals. However as I mentioned, if the same heat is applied to our group, we collapse into a frenzy of over-handballing and ball-butchering play. And I'm of the view that we need to tinker with our list profile because of this and releasing some players who many on here would rate no doubt.

There is a distinct lack of composure and skill-execution across our list and especially our midfield-line group which needs some obvious correcting. You need to give up something to get something in this comp and we're in desperate need for some class, composure and power running through the middle of the ground.

Expendable players in my eyes are ANB, Tyson, Harmes, JKH and to a lesser extent Stretch.

Tyson to me is one player who we simply don't need given he's not part of our top tier midfield group and his versatility as a player is almost non-existent. He was a number 3 pick as an inside mid. His game is contested-ball winning but he now plays more of an outside role given the talent we have ahead of him in that area. Tyson is one-sided, slow and his skills are questionable. He is absolutely expendable.

ANB whilst playing the role of high pressure forward is a natural contested ball winning mid and is extremely limited in what he can provide our forward-line. Yeh pressure is important, but there are so many players who can provide that and then some.

This isn't a pot-shorting post to either player, so I'm not going to bite if the same nuffies start questioning why I'd move on either one of Tyson or ANB  because of their overt love for everyone wearing our colours. This is about what is best for the club and where we need to see improvement.

Two spots whereby we could bring in a couple of players who are quick, composed and versatile and would go a long way to making more dangerous in our ability to move the ball with more fluency.

A few of potential targets that wouldn't cost the farm would be: 

- Brendon Ah Chee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw2UVwSfG1M&t=56s

- Steven Motlop (for the right price)

- Devon Smith                                                                   

 

Big fan of Ah Chee and know him. He is a wonderful young fella who comes from an outstanding family. He also has a younger brother playing in SANFL and it appears he is a gun. The Dee's may be able to lure him if the old bro is there.

i think we would be crazy not to look at.

Also, the Eagles will finally need to do a clean out. I think we have a look at any young player with a bit of pace. Eagles are renowned for not playing them. We may be able to grab one for nix.

We also need to remember 5 weeks ago we were the team of the moment and the tigers on the outer. Their list is more mature and able to hold the season. On that I think not making the finals and testing our younger players ready for a big pre season could have a very positive effect next year. Happy to sneak in this year though!

[doc roet 1,287]

Can Bitters get a gallop Up?

[doc roet 1,287]

8 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

How about some massive beast that can lead and mark and kick straight and take a pack mark and embarrasses defenders  ( someone like Ben Brown but with a more attractive  ' boat race '. Now that's what I want

Can Bitters get a gallop Up?

[junk 342]

Mr Dimmy, I liken Tyson to Josh Caddy not an "a" grade player and I am sure we could do better,we need someone to help Oliver who is in a class of his own. ANB will remain "revolving stock" player.On the positive side J.Smith and Maynard could be influentical in the new future.

[Skin Deeamond 339]

We need

1. A tall, strong, fast, nasty back man to combat tall forwards such as (ugly) Ben Brown, Joe Daniher and the like,

2. Forwards who can take a pack mark and also know how to spread when needed in the fifty AND can kick a goal.

3. Fast runners with penetrating, straight kicks who can actually kick to MFC players.

Get rid of those who just bomb it long indiscriminately, those who repeatedly kick it to the opposition trough lack of skills, caring or brains, or hand pass it to a player under pressure and slow players and intermittently gutless wimps who welsh out on the contest. They can be traded for 1. And 2. 

[Skin Deeamond 339]

3 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

Before bringing anyone in (and I think each club has to have at least 4 draft picks, or trade them), you have to make room on the list. On other words, it is a List Management exercise.

Out of contract are Heritier Lumumba (already gone, but was in the Senior list at the start of the year), Jack Trengove (lost too much time in the game due to injuries and we now have too many players like him, but they are a bit better), Jake Spencer (Cam Pedersen can backup Max Gawn while Mitch King is developing in the VFL), and Liam Hulett (no games in 2 years).

Already into the Senior list from the Rookie list are Joel Smith and Corey Maynard.

So that means some contracted players need to be traded or delisted and paid out, players such as:

• Ben Kennedy - no AFL games this year despite being in VFL best players almost every week - untradeable
• Colin Garland - cannot see him getting another game at senior level - untradeable
• Tomas Bugg - better players on the list and let himself and the team down - tradeable
• Jack Watts - lost favour with Simon Goodwin due to lack of fitness at the start of the season, and form since returning from only a 4-week injury layoff has been deplorable - tradeable
• Dean Kent - seems to have lost favour after the departure of Paul Roos - tradeable, but I like him as a player. Can he be developed into an outside mid, especially with his pace?

Apart from Jake Lever, who I think we should target first to further improve our defence, there are a few midfielders at a level lower than Dustin Martin and Josh Kelly that might be available, but may only require a second round draft pick plus a player to get the trade done. These players were out of contract at the start of the year, and I am unsure if some of them have already re-signed with their clubs

• David Zaharakis - unsure if he has re-signed with Essendon yet
• Jack Billings - unsure if he has re-signed with St Kilda yet
• Jacob Hopper - GWS
• Gary Ablett - one year left with Gold Coast but appears to want out - can we get him for a couple of years - Geelong don't seem to be all that interested.

 

 

 

You've got to be joking,

[Skin Deeamond 339]

More useless discards.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

11 minutes ago, Skin D said:

More useless discards.

Which discards are you referring to?

[deelete my account 1,194]

4 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

• Dean Kent - seems to have lost favour after the departure of Paul Roos - tradeable, but I like him as a player. Can he be developed into an outside mid, especially with his pace?

Kent for Motlop

4 hours ago, JackDeMan said:

• Tomas Bugg - better players on the list and let himself and the team down - tradeable

I disagree with this one. How many opportunities do we give a senior leader in Bernie Vince, and yet when Bugg does it, he's to be delisted? It was a stupid and careless thing to do, but i genuinely don't think he intended to get the face and more the neck. But moving onto his playing ability, Bugg has shown great potential as a 'momentum' player ie he has a tiny amount of X-Factor that can get the team up and going. He was to work on his skills and kicking for goal ability over the summer and could come back as a dangerous 30-40 goal a season player if he hits peak (And so does the club)

1 hour ago, Skin D said:

2. Forwards who can take a pack mark and also know how to spread when needed in the fifty AND can kick a goal.

Perhaps Casboult? No idea about 'spread', but he has shown great improvement in goal kicking if you discount his effort against Essendon last week. Edit: 29 goals this year

Edited August 8, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Lucifers Hero 39,597]

3 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

Kent for Motlop

Motlop is a RFA so there is not need to trade. 

The Cats seem happy to let him go - he has under performed for several years.

[layzie 33,752]

1 hour ago, DominatrixTyson said:

I disagree with this one. How many opportunities do we give a senior leader in Bernie Vince, and yet when Bugg does it, he's to be delisted? It was a stupid and careless thing to do, but i genuinely don't think he intended to get the face and more the neck. But moving onto his playing ability, Bugg has shown great potential as a 'momentum' player ie he has a tiny amount of X-Factor that can get the team up and going. He was to work on his skills and kicking for goal ability over the summer and could come back as a dangerous 30-40 goal a season player if he hits peak (And so does the club)

Good point, I reckon he's shown enough to suggest he's handy to have.

[Pennant St Dee 13,118]

Big no to Stevie Motlop

Hopper -Yes

Lever-yes but at the right price

Kelly - would be an absolute game changer for us. But he would be for many

Whitfield - would come cheaper then Kelly and IMO has plenty of upside. OOC at the end of 2018

[dimmy 1,307]

Motlop : No (Brilliant when on and not good when off)

Ablett : Not a long term solution

How about reinventing some of our current stock.

JW : Outside mid . Give him room and disposal is bryiiliant . He can handle the movement around the gropund (as evidenced when playing in ruck)  minus the bash and crach of a ruckman

Petracca,Brayshaw , JKH: into their 4th preseason

Trenrove as a inside mid.

Maynard showed promise : Tall ,Tough and willing . Let us see where he lands.

TMac : can play anywhere. He is as fast as anybody on the list, can mark and kick goals.

OMac : could he play Fwd because he is mobile .

Then again why should we fiddle with a premiership team ???

[Lucifers Hero 39,597]

ROAD TO THE DRAFT PODCAST

http://www.afl.com.au/draft/road-to-the-draft

Interview with Jason Taylor.  It recaps some of our recent recruiting decisions and talks of the future a bit.  Nothing really new but still interesting.

If you don't have 45 minutes to listen to it here is a summary (paraphrasing) the interview (and my comments in itallics):

Our Recruiting Process

Oliver:  Attributes: decision making, competitiveness. Now one of our top 2 professional players.

Weideman: Still finding his feet.  KPP’s take time - need to get to 22 to 23 y.o.  He needs to work as hard as Oliver and will be very good.

Hannan: Noticed him in the amateurs final.  Then tracked him thru the VFL.  He is an impact player and can perform in big moments.

Petracca, Brayshaw, Salem have had interrupted starts to their careers and will be better with another preseason

Hunt:  Selected him because they thought he had something special, athletically.  Very competitive.  AFL was a bit of a whirlwind for him at first.

Smith and Maynard:  There are Rookie B opportunities if clubs keep their ear to the ground.

Hibberd:  We really needed help at half back and use of footy out of defence. 

Lewis:  We needed support in the leadership area.  It was a ‘no brainer’ for us.  He has educated younger players and sometimes acts as a sounding board for coaches.

Kel O’Donnell seems to be a great scout

Our Needs going forward:  No specific need.  Will look for good players who can play in various parts of the ground.  Hinted at keeping the midfield resourced.  Maybe look at ruckman. 

Jake Lever:  If he wants to come back to Vic we would look at him.  Tricky to assess him in his draft year.   (I detected a sense of regret). 

Hardest player to find in a draft:  Ruckman, Super aggressive KPF.  Noted that competitive talls are really important at finals time.

Development:  Our coaches and program are excellent but players still need to buy in.

View of 2017 Draft:  A bit more positive about it since holiday in Bali.  Some tall, strong midfielders.  Didn’t want to be too negative about it.  (I started thinking we might trade out our first pick…)

Forward Looking @ 2019.  Given our age and game demographics looking for players that can take us to finals in the coming years.   If our players evolve there is less to do in a trade sense.

Recruiting for Goodwin’s game style:  First and foremost need competitive players.  Looks for resilience.  I got the impression that neither dominates the process.

Live Trading:  He likes it.

Reflecting on that summary emphasises what a great job the recruiting team have done over the last 3 years.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[spirit of norm smith 16,283]

On 08/08/2017 at 7:15 PM, Skin D said:

We need

1. A tall, strong, fast, nasty back man to combat tall forwards such as (ugly) Ben Brown, Joe Daniher and the like,

2. Forwards who can take a pack mark and also know how to spread when needed in the fifty AND can kick a goal.

3. Fast runners with penetrating, straight kicks who can actually kick to MFC players.

Get rid of those who just bomb it long indiscriminately, those who repeatedly kick it to the opposition trough lack of skills, caring or brains, or hand pass it to a player under pressure and slow players and intermittently gutless wimps who welsh out on the contest. They can be traded for 1. And 2. 

Agree 100%. Need more key position types and pacy midfielder with elite skills (Judd like!)

[DemonTillEyeDie 0]

As the Finals campaign begins to find its feet, the Trade period and National Draft will also be here soon enough with only a few months to go. And with 22 weeks of watching our beloved Melbourne Demons play, in your opinions, What position do we need to strengthen and who do you think are realistic targets? 

[Courtney_Fish 183]

I'd like to go after Roughead & Hawkins for revenge after Frawley & Rivers.

[ignition. 1,463]

We often hear "we have too much of that type" or something along those line. I firmly disagree with these kinds of statements.

I think we could have at least an upgrade in each part of the field. But I say that with regards to the next few years.

I'm still adamant we need another gun midfielder because our midfield is not currently within the top 3 of the competition. Those worth targeting and currently out of contract (OOC) include Kelly (GWS), Hopper (GWS), and Billings (St.Kilda). Alternatively, the likes of Wines (PA) and Macrae (W.B) are out of contract next year if we can wait. Any of these should be on our radar. Particularly considering Vince, Lewis and Jones' days are numbers (1 - 3 years max). Finally, Balic (Freo) also represent a bargain acquisition who should be gettable with a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I'd also like to see the club target another small forward (is it a priority, not really). Currently, OOC who could catalyze our team success includes Smith (GWS) and Materra (GC). The latter is currently looking for a trade.

Of course, another mature (second) ruckman is needed. Goldstein could fit this and help us into the start of our premiership window. Especially considering both he and Gawn can play forward (thus rotate between the ruck). However, one must ask what will be his price and if it's too high, which I suspect, I think we could find a back-up elsewhere, albeit not as good.

As we have read here time and time again... Lever. He should definitely improve our backline. If we get him across I suspect Frost will be used as trade bait considering he's OOC at seasons end.

Would also inquire about Stringer (W.B) if the Dogs opt to throw him on the table (as hinted in the media (?)). At his best he is a freak, at his worst he is a ghost. But similar to Goldy at North, I suspect the Dogs would be asking for too much.

Edited August 23, 2017 by ignition.

[Skin Deeamond 339]

We get beaten by tall forwards like Ben Brown and Daniher. We need a more effective tall back.

[Jibroni 4,987]

31 minutes ago, Skin D said:

We get beaten by tall forwards like Ben Brown and Daniher. We need a more effective tall back.

If Weed comes on next year (yes it is an if) wouldnt the MacDonald brothers combined solve that problem?

What Tall back did you have in mind?

 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

There is one gaping hole in our list. 22 premiership players.

[whatwhat say what 22,699]

50 minutes ago, ignition. said:

We often hear "we have too much of that type" or something along those line. I firmly disagree with these kinds of statements.

I think we could have at least an upgrade in each part of the field. But I say that with regards to the next few years.

I'm still adamant we need another gun midfielder because our midfield is not currently within the top 3 of the competition. Those worth targeting and currently out of contract (OOC) include Kelly (GWS), Hopper (GWS), and Billings (St.Kilda). Alternatively, the likes of Wines (PA) and Macrae (W.B) are out of contract next year if we can wait. Any of these should be on our radar. Particularly considering Vince, Lewis and Jones' days are numbers (1 - 3 years max). Finally, Balic (Freo) also represent a bargain acquisition who should be gettable with a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I'd also like to see the club target another small forward (is it a priority, not really). Currently, OOC who could catalyze our team success includes Smith (GWS) and Materra (GC). The latter is currently looking for a trade.

Of course, another mature (second) ruckman is needed. Goldstein could fit this and help us into the start of our premiership window. Especially considering both he and Gawn can play forward (thus rotate between the ruck). However, one must ask what will be his price and if it's too high, which I suspect, I think we could find a back-up elsewhere, albeit not as good.

As we have read here time and time again... Lever. He should definitely improve our backline. If we get him across I suspect Frost will be used as trade bait considering he's OOC at seasons end.

Would also inquire about Stringer (W.B) if the Dogs opt to throw him on the table (as hinted in the media (?)). At his best he is a freak, at his worst he is a ghost. But similar to Goldy at North, I suspect the Dogs would be asking for too much.

kelly - will sign on at gw$
hopper - likely the same
billings - already signed a new deal with the aints
balic - who knows
smith - wants to go to the cats, if rumours are true
matera - wants to go home to perth
goldstein - currently on $800k a year next year, looks cooked
lever - we're in the conversation, clearly
stringer - would love him