28 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Oscar no, Frost yes.

I dont and never have rated Oscar, i dont see what he adds to the side besides being tall. May brings experience and a hardened body down back. Today he would have taken Kennedy and i would backed him in to get the job done.

Frost at least has elite speed and dash that we desperately need put of our backline. May and Lever qould cover him for his disposal and skill.

I recall many here saying exactly the same thing re TMac. Then he got a few more seasons development under his belt and look what he has become.

Omac is still only 22 and will barely be 23 at the first bounce of ball next season.

Just need a time, imo.

2 minutes ago, Ugottobekidding said:

May is overrated

Maybe but today’s GF result has just improved his stocks in the competition. West Coast have won a cup with traditional big bodied defenders who could hold the line early. Intercept marking forwards are great and so are receiving half back runners but old fashioned big bodied marking KPB will now be well sort after. 

After today's GF Collingwood will be doubling down on their offer to May.

48 minutes ago, JTR said:

I recall many here saying exactly the same thing re TMac. Then he got a few more seasons development under his belt and look what he has become.

Omac is still only 22 and will barely be 23 at the first bounce of ball next season.

Just need a time, imo.

TMac actually made improvements in a quantum manner - OMac has not across two full years, at least not enough of the plural improvements that he needed. These brothers are two individuals, not clones. TMac learned and TMac worked, and TMac made the grade. TMac now is dependable in so many areas. Great. I cannot say that about his little brother. 

28 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

After today's GF Collingwood will be doubling down on their offer to May.

Not sure what you mean by that??

Pick 30 is around the mark.. same as what we gave up for Hibberd and Melk.

2 hours ago, A F said:

My old man always said my height would be handy. Haha. It was in the under 12s

Wise man, your father.

May to me would mean Omac getting the squeeze. May and Lever provide the one and two key defender roles, and so Frost then offers more than Omac in combination with Jetta, Hibberd, and hopefully Hunt coming on again. Salem pushed up to half forward and Jones taking the Lewis role. Balance and rebounding weapons with an all-round defensive squad of hard-nuts. Sweet. 

IMO Lever isn't a key defender. May and Omac would be the KPD. Lever is intercept 3rd tall. He might put on more size in future and play tall KP, but not as he is at the moment. Frost becomes depth or comes in for opposition match ups or is trade bait.

McGovern today is a fit May in May for us.......

21 minutes ago, deefella said:

Not sure what you mean by that??

Not sure if serious?

Collingwood are well known to be in the race for May

Double down: strengthen one's commitment to a particular strategy or course of action, typically one that is potentially risky.

The West Coast marking forwards were a key reason they won the GF, therefore the appeal of a strong key defender to Collingwood will be even stronger and they are likely to increase their offer to May.

People who are looking at May replacing Oscar are barking up the wrong tree. May would be about creating a structure, which is what the best teams (West Coast and Richmond) do well. 

The backline would likely be Oscar, May and Lever together. Oscar playing the same role he is now (bodying the opposition's best forward) with May as a strong rebounding tall who can play on a good player and Lever playing as a contest killing rebounder. 

This structure is very similar to the well structured teams. Schofield/Broad/Oscar as the negative body player, McGovern/Rance/May as the tall rebounder and Barrass/Grimes/Lever as the flexible contest killer. Having May could turn a weakness into a strength.

3 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Frosty is aware of his style and weaknesses, and has improved 3 of these in just a couple of months. With a good pre-season, I'd reckon that the FD can sort him out, just fine. Frosty is a playmaker, and a very big asset down back that will turn the final two corners with focussed coaching. It would appear that he will achieve this heightened mastery in quick time, too.

He's improved, for sure, but is still risky, heart in mouth sort of stuff.  That doesn't allow our defence to feel more calm.

Frosty may continue to improve, and maybe not far enough?

We have to build security into our list, so the team can be its best.

Your right we need skilled runners, but May isn't stopping us getting those.  He's sure-ing up a different area. Tall backs.

 

Midfield is a different thread, to be sorted.

Edited September 29, 20186 yr by DV8

I think people are confusing frosts main assett (burst of speed) as anything more than icing on a cake for a kpd. May is a much more rounded defender, and OMAC is or will be too on a developmental curve. We can recruit speed elsewhere with our half back flanks/wings

Edited September 29, 20186 yr by johndemonic

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Pick 30 is around the mark.. same as what we gave up for Hibberd and Melk.

Right. The Suns will hand over their contracted Captain, a sought after fullback being chased by at least three Victorian clubs, for pick 30.

There’s “unlikely” then there’s “don’t drink and post”.

3 minutes ago, johndemonic said:

I think people are confusing frosts main assett (burst of speed) as anything more than icing on a cake for a kpd. May is a much more rounded defender, and OMAC is too developmentally. We can recruit speed elsewhere with our half back flanks/wings

Frost’s Achilles Heel is his wonky, heart-in-mouth disposal by foot. It just kills momentum to turn the ball over like he is prone to do in the back half and cough up goals.

Oscar may not have the foot speed of Frost but he is more accomplished and cool headed with the ball in hand. That fact pushes Frost out of the side for mine if/when May and Lever slot into the back six.

Frost is a Casey depth player or trade bait if we recruit May.

4 hours ago, JTR said:

I recall many here saying exactly the same thing re TMac. Then he got a few more seasons development under his belt and look what he has become.

Omac is still only 22 and will barely be 23 at the first bounce of ball next season.

Just need a time, imo.

To be fair, Tom is still a very ordinary defender. The only reason he turned a corner was we threw him forward. I think OMac has a higher ceiling than Tom in a defensive post simply because he's a better kick and decision maker. However, his strength and smartness are still issues. We'll see how he plays with another pre season. 

One thing's for sure though, if May comes, Frost and Oscar will be fighting for the one spot.

Frost is a funny sort of player,  and reminds me a bit of the former New Zealand Zealand Bob Cunis, neither one thing nor the other.

He isn't big and strong enough to be the gorilla keeper. 

He is quick but not quite agile enough for the small forwards. 

His disposal and decision making aren't good enough to be the premier rebounding medium defender. 

With May, the back 7 will be: Lever, May, Jetta, Hibbard, Salem then one of group A OMac and Frost, and one of group B Lewis, Hunt, and Joel Smith. The only way Frost and Omac play in the same team as Lever and May is if Omac is picked and then Frost forces his way into competition with group B, as a small/medium defender. 

Personally I think his skill set is "amazing run, carry, closing speed etc. for a tall defender, that makes up for some of his weaknesses as a tall defender" rather than "great strength and aerial skills that make up for his weaknesses as a rebounding defender".

 

Thus is why I'm not super enthusiastic about getting May. I know he is a good player who will improve us. But for the cost in picks too gain him, minus the value of the incumbents who he will push out of the team (rather than reposition) I think we can get better value by trying to improve other areas of the ground. 

Frost has been good this year and played well to his strengths as well described in tecent posts.  But his other weakness on display particularly in the last two finals was aerial - he misjudged and drpped crucial marks. 

I think OMac's strength issues will be more easily overcome.  He is on a curve of improvement 

39 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Frost has been good this year and played well to his strengths as well described in tecent posts.  But his other weakness on display particularly in the last two finals was aerial - he misjudged and drpped crucial marks. 

I think OMac's strength issues will be more easily overcome.  He is on a curve of improvement 

how about oscar's unwillingness to be physical? apart from that one tackle on darling, i haven't seen any physicality whatsoever, and additionally he seems to lack urgency when the ball is on the ground or he misjudges it and it flies past him.. its like his boots are full of cement. i have come to admire his coolness with ball in hand, but the above failings will be his undoing. he just doesn't have that 'killer instinct' that a defender needs.

Goodwin played defence so I guess that he must see something in May that we don't. 

43 minutes ago, Thehardtackler said:

Goodwin played defence so I guess that he must see something in May that we don't. 

That YOU don’t 

3 hours ago, Rocky said:

how about oscar's unwillingness to be physical? apart from that one tackle on darling, i haven't seen any physicality whatsoever, and additionally he seems to lack urgency when the ball is on the ground or he misjudges it and it flies past him.. its like his boots are full of cement. i have come to admire his coolness with ball in hand, but the above failings will be his undoing. he just doesn't have that 'killer instinct' that a defender needs.

This is still the biggest knock on Oscar. He's come a fair way in other areas but there's still this.

We won’t win a flag with our current defense. It is the absolute weakest part of our team and probably the most crucial in finals. We need to get some strong experience in there, and that’s hard to come by. If we can get May, we should. It takes years to develop key backman and May could slot straight into our backline. 

I don't like these arguments that OMac is young and that we should wait a few years. 

Our premiership window is now open. I don't want to waste another four years floating in no man's land while making the finals.

If we can get someone who firms up or spine, then let OMac play on a flank. Then when May retires (he is 27 now) and he has bulked up, OMAC can retake the full back spot.