De Ja Vu 2010

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

I dont know when it exactly started but there is some massive group think tidal wave regarding how talented the list is. No one has proven anything yet and all this hype stinks of 2010 for mine.

the list is no where near as talented as the group think line says. its fascinating to watch an opinion of a few gradually build to assumed fact, yet no one really stops to analyse.

at best this list is tooled to replicate Nths last few years. mid-lower top 8 at best. There is far too much talk and assumption of 'we just got to hang on until these kids get games in to them and we will be a great side'. 

Its only 7 years since the last time i saw this play out in the media and on this site but it is eerily familiar. Our list is nowhere near as talented as some seem to be assuming. 

And yes the predictable response to my pot will be "this list is more talented than 2010" - and yes i agree, it is. But thats not my point> The point is it is NOT as talented or as well positioned as many are assuming. Its a tough comp and most sides are as well or better placed for the future. - Collingwood and Stkilda included.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Fitz Fitzpatrick

[Skuit 10,031]

So you're saying many are overestimating the future potential of our list - which there is no way to refute at this point in time. And your evidence is that many overrated the list in 2010, but you agree that this list is more talented. Then a comparison to North Melbourne that I can't comprehend. Do suggest it's time for a rebuild?

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

13 minutes ago, Skuit said:

So you're saying many are overestimating the future potential of our list - which there is no way to refute at this point in time. And your evidence is that many overrated the list in 2010, but you agree that this list is more talented. Then a comparison to North Melbourne that I can't comprehend. Do suggest it's time for a rebuild?

we havent finished the last rebuild yet

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

I've been making the comparison to North too.

We might make finals 5 out of 7 years, get to the prelim a couple of times, but we don't look like anything more than 'good, ordinary' side.

I'm actually loving how competitive we are this year - scores level or we have been in front in the last quarter of every game thus far this year.

We just need to win the close ones!

[praha 11,240]

38 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

I've been making the comparison to North too.

We might make finals 5 out of 7 years, get to the prelim a couple of times, but we don't look like anything more than 'good, ordinary' side.

I'm actually loving how competitive we are this year - scores level or we have been in front in the last quarter of every game thus far this year.

We just need to win the close ones!

In 2014, a year we finished with 4 wins and equal last, we were in front in the last quarter of 12 games but only won 4 of them. We are "competitive" for half the year.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

If we got Luke Beveridge as coach instead of Neeld we would have a couple of flags by now.

[davo 209]

5 hours ago, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

I dont know when it exactly started but there is some massive group think tidal wave regarding how talented the list is. No one has proven anything yet and all this hype stinks of 2010 for mine.

the list is no where near as talented as the group think line says. its fascinating to watch an opinion of a few gradually build to assumed fact, yet no one really stops to analyse.

at best this list is tooled to replicate Nths last few years. mid-lower top 8 at best. There is far too much talk and assumption of 'we just got to hang on until these kids get games in to them and we will be a great side'. 

Its only 7 years since the last time i saw this play out in the media and on this site but it is eerily familiar. Our list is nowhere near as talented as some seem to be assuming. 

And yes the predictable response to my pot will be "this list is more talented than 2010" - and yes i agree, it is. But thats not my point> The point is it is NOT as talented or as well positioned as many are assuming. Its a tough comp and most sides are as well or better placed for the future. - Collingwood and Stkilda included.

There is no way Collingwood has a better list than, no frickin way, Saints are on par but we did beat them if you remember. Hawthorn are not shyte, they've had some thrashings but that's mental, they've still got plenty premiership players. Our problem IS young players with not enough game time and the older blokes like Jones making stupid stupid mistakes

[praha 11,240]

3 hours ago, davo said:

Our problem IS young players with not enough game time and the older blokes like Jones making stupid stupid mistakes

So basically....2010 lol

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

7 hours ago, praha said:

So basically....2010 lol

Haha yes I rest my case

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

10 hours ago, davo said:

There is no way Collingwood has a better list than, no frickin way, Saints are on par but we did beat them if you remember. Hawthorn are not shyte, they've had some thrashings but that's mental, they've still got plenty premiership players. Our problem IS young players with not enough game time and the older blokes like Jones making stupid stupid mistakes

Collingwoods midfield is absolutely better than ours. Much higher skill level. After a 5 day break collingwood looked very slick against geelong. Very good ball movement and good disposal.

st kilda would not lose to us now. Just like GWS would not have lost to us later in the season last year.

 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

We were predicted to be garbage in 2010... it was 2011 we were supposedly finals bound.

There is, however, zero accurate comparison that one could make between those two playing lists and football departments.  Zero.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

1 hour ago, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

st kilda would not lose to us now.

Jesus everyone falls in love with them when they have a good game AT ETIHAD.

Lets just see how they go away from that ground. They often look like millionaires under the roof.

[praha 11,240]

10 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Jesus everyone falls in love with them when they have a good game AT ETIHAD.

Lets just see how they go away from that ground. They often look like millionaires under the roof.

....they smashed Hawthorn by 100% on a ground Hawthorn doesn't lose on.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

And we

4 minutes ago, praha said:

....they smashed Hawthorn by 100% on a ground Hawthorn doesn't lose on.

And we beat them on their home ground, but apparently now that wouldn't happen?

They are as brittle as us at times. We proved that.

[Little Goffy 14,546]

I think one key difference between 2010/2011 and now is that nobody is really saying 'that player is going to be great because he went at pick 4'.

Instead we are saying 'that player I've been watching closely all season is a competitive beast with great vision/amazing hands/terrific speed'.

And I haven't heard anyone say that we would've won these recent lost games if only Angus Brayshaw was on the park.

 

Another thing there is a lot more of lately is acknowledgement of limitations. For example We (the group-think collective) aren't afraid to critisize Viney, despite him being the symbol of our new generation and all that jazz. There's no cult of youth, reckless discarding of high-performing veterans, or assumption thay everythign will be ok. 

People want wins now, they want performance now, and they are judging the team on what they are delivering now. And that still applies even when people are then forgiving of individuals.

Hell, there are people already accepting that Weideman might only be ok, who only gave up on Lucas Cook's triumphant return in about 2016!

[praha 11,240]

9 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

And we

And we beat them on their home ground, but apparently now that wouldn't happen?

They are as brittle as us at times. We proved that.

It's not the same thing and you know it.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

3 hours ago, praha said:

It's not the same thing and you know it.

Actually that's my argument.

It's ALL not the same thing. The only evidence we have is that we DID beat St Kilda. 

Much the same as us winning when we are expected to, St Kilda's weakness is being competitive away from Domain. I don't count the Hawthorn game for much because the Hawks are a very competent side who at times have lost the desire to compete. A lot of the talk yesterday was about how good Hawthorn was on Sunday - not on how bad we were.

My point is its a very even competition and it infuriates me when people on here say things like 'we wouldn't beat them now'. It's always a race to see who can predict the most gloom.

[Little Richard 6,262]

Wasn't 2010 the year of bruise free footy? We've come miles since then.

When we're on we're one of the most physical sides in the competition, especially in the guts.

[martin 727]

18 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Jesus everyone falls in love with them when they have a good game AT ETIHAD.

Lets just see how they go away from that ground. They often look like millionaires under the roof.

Agreed. StKilda had a good win against GWS but are blessed with no injuries ATM. GWS has star players out as long as your arm,we're one man down for most of the game in Kennedy,Hopper with a broken finger and Wilson playing out the game less than 100%.Let's keep the Saints win in perspective.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,508]

I really don't understand the comparison to North of the past 3-4 years...

Nth Melbourne had a very imbalanced list of retained older players, then on top of that, brought in a host of mature players and free agents to keep them in finals contention.  They had a reasonable list with mid-aged players such  as Ziebull, Cunnington, Goldstein, Thompson, etc. and maintained that level through free agency and trading, rather than blooding new talent and trading up to higher picks.

We are the complete antithesis of this approach.  We have lost a significant number of senior players through requested trades, free agency and delistments.  So much senior talent departed that we have had to bring in senior players to increase the age profile of our list.  All of this was done to stockpile, support and develop young players.  Those young players are now starting to string together some senior games.

North climbed half-way up the mountain, then sought to add and retain aging players to possible take them over the top (Waite, Dal Santo, Firrito, Harvey, etc).  We haven't even climbed part of the mountain yet.  

 

If anything, Nth Melbourne of 2014-16 reminds me of Melbourne of 2004-06.

[don cordner 204]

On 08/05/2017 at 3:01 AM, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

I dont know when it exactly started but there is some massive group think tidal wave regarding how talented the list is. No one has proven anything yet and all this hype stinks of 2010 for mine.

the list is no where near as talented as the group think line says. its fascinating to watch an opinion of a few gradually build to assumed fact, yet no one really stops to analyse.

at best this list is tooled to replicate Nths last few years. mid-lower top 8 at best. There is far too much talk and assumption of 'we just got to hang on until these kids get games in to them and we will be a great side'. 

Its only 7 years since the last time i saw this play out in the media and on this site but it is eerily familiar. Our list is nowhere near as talented as some seem to be assuming. 

And yes the predictable response to my pot will be "this list is more talented than 2010" - and yes i agree, it is. But thats not my point> The point is it is NOT as talented or as well positioned as many are assuming. Its a tough comp and most sides are as well or better placed for the future. - Collingwood and Stkilda included.

We have no ruck idiot.. what do you expect..

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

1 hour ago, don cordner said:

We have no ruck idiot.. what do you expect..

One of our more intelligent posters I assume.

reading my post and extracting from that , that I'm basing this on our games so far this year just shows how poor your comprehension skills are mate. Talk about missing the point. 

I played in the ruck for 9 years - think I might have a fair understanding on how much Gawns loss affects us. But that's totally irrelevant to my point about this demons group think bandwagon Ive witnessed.

rd 1 - gawn played . That won papered over a glaring deficiency in our list. We play aggressive footy but our skill level is well below many other teams. 

[don cordner 204]

Just now, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

One of our more intelligent posters I assume.

reading my post and extracting from that , that I'm basing this on our games so far this year just shows how poor your comprehension skills are mate. Talk about missing the point. 

I played in the ruck for 9 years - think I might have a fair understanding on how much Gawns loss affects us. But that's totally irrelevant to my point about this demons group think bandwagon Ive witnessed.

rd 1 - gawn played . That won papered over a glaring deficiency in our list. We play aggressive footy but our skill level is well below many other teams. 

I'm not ur mate

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

4 minutes ago, don cordner said:

I'm not ur mate

I doubt you're anyone's mate, fella

[Roost It 1,434]

Basically in an incredibly even competition, we're Max Gawn and a couple of bounces of the ball away from being 7 - 0

We are nothing like Nth as described well by teamplayedfine39.

Are you seriously comparing Morton, Cook, Bennell, Trengove, Jamar, to Petracca, Hogan, Viney, Oliver, Gawn. We are so far in front of that list. 

We have almost all the talent we need, it's now up to the coaches and some luck.