2 hours ago, A F said:

Agree with most of this, except for the point about Watts being traded for cap space. Jack was traded for game style and application.

I think the main driver with The Watts trade was also his lack of reliability in contests, but I think salary cap relief was another element i.e. the big chunk he was taking up made tolerating his onfield weaknesses even less palatable.

3 hours ago, Brayshaw Self said:

Not at all mate. Get your hand off it.
Trade a surplus with value for a need with similar value. You must not be paying much attention this year.

Not to Langdon or Freo, that's for sure. Never seen much from Langdon to impress me in the past though.

Fair enough, if you think so, but I don't think Langdon really provides what we need, or if he'd be the first one we'd target.

2 hours ago, Lampers said:

I think the main driver with The Watts trade was also his lack of reliability in contests, but I think salary cap relief was another element i.e. the big chunk he was taking up made tolerating his onfield weaknesses even less palatable.

That's game style though. 

3 hours ago, Lampers said:

I think the main driver with The Watts trade was also his lack of reliability in contests, but I think salary cap relief was another element i.e. the big chunk he was taking up made tolerating his onfield weaknesses even less palatable.

No...off field activities...party party party...

10 minutes ago, Jontee said:

No...off field activities...party party party...

Correct. Enough was enough for goodwin. 

Tyson does most things OK but in this team, now, poor disposal is not going to cut it.  (Similar with Bugg)

Edited June 3, 20186 yr by monoccular
sp

9 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Wouldn't trade him unless we got a late first round-early second round pick. He's a pick 3 who's had 2 top 5 BnF finishes for us in 4-5 seasons. He's out of favour and form at the moment, but would be a starting centre square midfielder for most other clubs.

It's not worth giving him up unless we get late first round-early 2nd round pick IMO. He's worth far more to us as depth, and would be one of the best midfielders in the league not currently getting a game.

Fair enough...  But would we be able to use a Daniel Rich in our lineup,,, and can somebody tell me what Ryan Bastinac is like, these days?

2 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Fair enough...  But would we be able to use a Daniel Rich in our lineup,,, and can somebody tell me what Ryan Bastinac is like, these days?

Bastinac has been running around in the NEAFL. He is on the brink of extinction as an AFL player.

He's not currently best 22 but we won't be making/winning finals with a squad of 22 and no more.

I expect to see him back in the seniors at least once before the end of the season. Whether that's pessimism around injuries or just a belief that players can improve in the VFL, I don't know.

Any injuries to the current midfield and he will be first choice back in.

I feel a bit sorry for Dom to find himself out of the team, but even though he has accumulated possessions, he often lacks intensity , very similar to Watts.

We are starting to see that this is a non negotiable with Goody.

Edited June 3, 20186 yr by DeeZee

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

Bastinac has been running around in the NEAFL. He is on the brink of extinction as an AFL player.

You've been watching his play ?  He was talented not so long ago.

Probably worth more to us than what we could get for him in a trade. That said he may want more opportunities. 

24 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Probably worth more to us than what we could get for him in a trade. That said he may want more opportunities. 

Maybe, maybe not. 

A second round pick and I'd do it in a heartbeat. 

Tyson hasn't developed any other area of his game and these days if you're not dominating at the coalface, you have to be able to offer the team something else. And given his deficiencies as a player, he can't offer us that. 

Edited June 3, 20186 yr by stevethemanjordan

32 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Maybe, maybe not. 

A second round pick and I'd do it in a heartbeat. 

Tyson hasn't developed any other area of his game and these days if you're not dominating at the coalface, you have to be able to offer the team something else. And given his deficiencies as a player, he can't offer us that. 

Wouldn't be surprised to see him come back into the team full time off half back, it seemed like he was played in a 50/50 wing type role there earlier in the season, but that just caused him to really drift in and out of the match. Much like Brayshaw I'd say the coaches are working on something with him, so that when he comes back he knows his role and can then try and push to be a permanent player again. 

36 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see him come back into the team full time off half back, it seemed like he was played in a 50/50 wing type role there earlier in the season, but that just caused him to really drift in and out of the match. Much like Brayshaw I'd say the coaches are working on something with him, so that when he comes back he knows his role and can then try and push to be a permanent player again. 

His disposal under pressure hasn't been good enough to date to have him down back

Hard to know where to play him based on his output this year

Dom is out of the team because he is not in our top 3-4 midfielders any more, and because he doesn't have a secondary role that he can play (unlike Brayshaw, Salem & Petracca). But as soon as we have an injury in the midfield, there is no question in my mind that he will come straight back in. 

Longer term I would imagine that the coaches see him as a possible replacement for Lewis or Vince across half back. Clearly he needs to tidy up his decision making a little, but he reads the play well and gets himself to the right spots. 

Dom is shaping up to be good trade bait now, a few clubs could use him. 

Not sure we have any use for him anymore. 

Dom is either ripe for trade... Or to go into the middle, as Vince/Lewis retire and Jones is shifted to the HFB.

I know he gets lambasted for his iffy disposal, but at the coalface is where his value lies, and he is still young. Plenty of players have suddenly clicked around his age, eliminated the butchery, and finding awareness & intensity that was previously lacking.

Jones for one (minus the intensity).

On 3 June 2018 at 12:26 PM, Brayshaw Self said:

Not at all mate. Get your hand off it.
Trade a surplus with value for a need with similar value. You must not be paying much attention this year.

 

On 3 June 2018 at 4:17 PM, Mach5 said:

Not to Langdon or Freo, that's for sure. Never seen much from Langdon to impress me in the past though.

Fair enough, if you think so, but I don't think Langdon really provides what we need, or if he'd be the first one we'd target.

 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-news-ed-langdon-being-sounded-out-by-victorian-clubs/news-story/df3693845d113828ede4aea3983647d3

Clearly youve been talking to someone...

I'm really glad a lot of posters on here are keeping a level head in valuing Dom as a player for MFC.

Yes he's out of the team, his form has been down and the teams standards have certainly lifted. The current Midfield core of Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Jones are ahead of him in form and performing what he does best, better.

I think its obvious the FD are trying to develop Dom into a more dynamic player. We know he can play really well as an inside or link up mid. He didn't perform well when he was played further off the ball on a wing. I really hope he can develop into a rebounding half back. At the moment his disposal would not have him well placed to replace a Vince or Lewis type role. But that doesn't mean he can't work his way into that role.

Some examples off the top of my head:

ANB - Drafted as an inside mid. Battled away for Casey until he changed to a pressure forward

Nev - Obviously couldn't perform as a half forward/wing so Roos developed him into the best small backman in the comp

Other less distinctive examples would be: Melksham and bugg as players with clear talent that weren't performing as mids but developed into definitive roles as forwards.

Definitely think Dom is a talented player who not only gives us midfield depth but the opportunity to add to depth in other areas as we've done with other players.

On 6/3/2018 at 10:11 PM, america de cali said:

Any injuries to the current midfield and he will be first choice back in.

Yup...he is easily the next cab.  And not just the genuine mids.  Would put Tracc and Salem in there also.  Hoping they all stay the course though with crossed fingers & toes.

4 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-news-ed-langdon-being-sounded-out-by-victorian-clubs/news-story/df3693845d113828ede4aea3983647d3

Clearly youve been talking to someone...

I wish I had someone to talk to, Mach5. I'd be very happy if this was true. He's exactly what we're missing.

On 6/4/2018 at 8:46 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see him come back into the team full time off half back, it seemed like he was played in a 50/50 wing type role there earlier in the season, but that just caused him to really drift in and out of the match. Much like Brayshaw I'd say the coaches are working on something with him, so that when he comes back he knows his role and can then try and push to be a permanent player again. 

Playing him at half back would be worse than playing him wing. 

He simply can't play those positions due to his weaknesses. Unfortunately for him, they're not just football related. His physical attributes are also very underwhelming and add to his vanilla profile. He isn't quick, in fact he's slow. He lacks agility, power and he's not tall. 

The reasons he's not playing in our 22 is thus:

A) He is behind all our inside mids in regards to impact and effectiveness at the coal face. 

B) He is extremely limited as a player which means he cannot be played in any other position.

Fine for depth, but if we remain injury free I think a team like Carlton or St Kild could offer overs for him, (like we did early days for immediate results). And that would be a big win for us given Jason's strike rate from round 1-3 of the draft. 

 

Edited June 5, 20186 yr by stevethemanjordan

On 4/26/2017 at 9:47 AM, stevethemanjordan said:

Not the first time I've made a comment about him, but for those who refuse to believe he is untouchable, I want to bring a few points to the conversation.

As a competent midfielder in the AFL you have to be one of the following two things:

1 - A versatile midfielder who has the right attribute diversity to play anywhere from half-back, midfield to half-forward. Examples: Jones, Lewis, Petracca etc 

2 - A midfielder who has one or two really strong attributes and plays a set position/role in a side week in and week out. That player may be considered a pure inside mid, (Priddis, Kennedy, Ward) or an outsider, (Billy Stretch, Josh Kelly, Shuey, Stephen Hill).

I understand there are also those that are in between. Shuey for instance is a player who I'd consider outside because of his ability to run and carry, but he can also win contested ball and win it well.

Now to my mind, Dom is a pure inside mid. He is a contested ball winner who in the past has displayed really clean hands in close, winning contested ball and an ability to hit the scoreboard. That is his jam. At least it is supposed to be.

However, for a player who plays such a defined and limited role, it's of my opinion that they need to play it at a very high level and consistently.

This is why: 

When Dom doesn't display it consistently, he is an absolute liability on the field due to his weaknesses which are his two-way running ability, agility, speed and field kicking. And the fact that he can't offer anything playing forward or back. Defensively on the outside, he can't do much other than guard space as an inside mid.

As average as Viney has been this year, I still think he offers more. Especially defensively. And please don't give me a tackle count. Anyone can tackle if playing solely as a contested ball winning mid. I'm talking about perceived pressure, chasing, harassing. Viney does these things very well. Oliver similarly but he is also dominating as a ball winner. 

Dom is the odd one out and really I think his position going forward should be questioned given the midfield we've assembled. What we now need is a really classy user. We desperately need someone in the mould of Josh Kelly. 

Unless Dom gets back to his best of 2014 pretty soon, I imagine he'll be back at Casey before long -(injuries aside).