12 minutes ago, martin said:

 As well as 31 possessions numerous tap ons, tackles and was instructional. Its so easy to say that a player of his age is nearing his use by date, der! He has given us plenty.

I think some believe he needs to be BOG every week racking up 40 + possessions each time to justify the trade. Wrong. Lost nothing in the trade and paying him a fair wage.

Yes he had 31 possessions and he contributed in other ways.  I reckon every other player contributed in others ways as well.  Why should Lewis be treated any differently.  I'm not contending that he doesn't and hasn't added value and I'm not arguing against the trade.  I'm contending he is not nearly as valuable as many here say and that he is fast coming to the end of his playing career, something others disagree with.

 

 

Just now, nutbean said:

I didn't say Tmac was a dumb footballer so you are correct  - you misquoted me. I said he is not the smartest footballer. Do I think he is was the general in the backline when he playing there ? Didn't look like it to me. And that's ok - not everyone is a general. I like Tmac  - I just think I am aware of his limitations.

 

Tom McDonald is an elite reader of the footy. You can't be a "not so smart" player and be an elite reader of the play.

The only downside to Tom is his disposal by foot, which we know goes from acceptable to diabolical. But his decision making is very good, and any player capable of playing forward, ruck and back in the space of 4 weeks, is a smart player!

2 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Yes he had 31 possessions and he contributed in other ways.  I reckon every other player contributed in others ways as well.  Why should Lewis be treated any differently.  I'm not contending that he doesn't and hasn't added value and I'm not arguing against the trade.  I'm contending he is not nearly as valuable as many here say and that he is fast coming to the end of his playing career, something others disagree with.

 

 

So it's a non issue then? What is the point of banging on about Lewis? He has, and will continue to be valuable.So what does 'fast coming to the end of his career' actually mean and what value is there in stating that? Self appointed football pundit that derives self esteem from 'predictions' that are basically negative? Congrats. So go on, is his fast finishing career coming to and end today, tomorrow, against WC, end of the season or September 2019? So easy to be vague and general,

3 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I didn't say Tmac was a dumb footballer so you are correct  - you misquoted me. I said he is not the smartest footballer.

Apologies, you said " McDonald (IMO) can point and direct all he likes  - he is not the smartest footballer going around." 

There is only one "smartest" footballer and I don't think you intended to give the impression that Tom was the second smartest.  It was a pointed comment and I think you're hiding behind semantics. It implied that regardless of how much Tom directs you don't rate it because you don't rate his footy smarts and his direction is of little or no value. 

What does that imply?

 

On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 11:44 AM, rpfc said:

My experience is the opposite - the better your team becomes the easier you can 'hide' a leader with a declining game or body.

Lewis will decline but I don't think it will be rapid and it will be evened out with the continued ascension of those around him like Oliver, Petracca, Hunt, et al.

And intangibles are hard to quantify, I agree, but I can quantify his leadership because his captains mention it, his coach mentions it, and his direction on the field is plain to see and hear.

This post has aged well.

Lewis was solid, hardly the reason for our dominance, but certainly a contributor to it. When he has talent to feed - he looks very good.

2 minutes ago, martin said:

So it's a non issue then? What is the point of banging on about Lewis? He has, and will continue to be valuable.So what does 'fast coming to the end of his career' actually mean and what value is there in stating that? Self appointed football pundit that derives self esteem from 'predictions' that are basically negative? Congrats. So go on, is his fast finishing career coming to and end today, tomorrow, against WC, end of the season or September 2019? So easy to be vague and general,

Martin you've got your knickers in a knot for no reason.  In my previous posts on the subject I said I think Lewis will struggle to maintain his spot in the team as early as next year.

It's a footy forum for heavens sakes.  It's where people discuss footy and their views.  I'm not a "self appointed football pundit" but I like discussing issues.  IMO it's pretty boring to make observations about the bleeding obvious (gosh we played well yesterday - that really adds to the forum doesn't it) and I'm much more interested in anticipating what might happens and how we plan for it.

I am truly amazed at the negative comments towards Jordan Lewis. His value to THIS CLUB right now is immeasurable

4 flags in the modern era...2016 2nd in Whorethorn's B&F

if he wasn't on our list we would not be in 5th position after12 games in 2017

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Martin you've got your knickers in a knot for no reason.  In my previous posts on the subject I said I think Lewis will struggle to maintain his spot in the team as early as next year.

It's a footy forum for heavens sakes.  It's where people discuss footy and their views.  I'm not a "self appointed football pundit" but I like discussing issues.  IMO it's pretty boring to make observations about the bleeding obvious (gosh we played well yesterday - that really adds to the forum doesn't it) and I'm much more interested in anticipating what might happens and how we plan for it.

No 'knickers in a knot' mate. TBH, what is 'pretty boring' are these TGR and your type of posts that dwell on a supposed negative in a time that shows so much promise. Despite all of our opinions, do you really believe that the likes of yourself and TGR have greater insight to the recruitment of Lewis than our club? Do u profess to to know his full value ahead of Goodwin and the FD? Obviously a rhetorical question. So Lewis is done by next year? Let's see. If so beat your chest and pat yourself on the back and tell our club and the rest of us how wrong we were.. Amazing.The only problem with your formula is that as soon as Lewis has one bad game - Collingwood - he is finished.  That means that Dustin Martin is in trouble after the weekend. Jordan, like Cross, will be valuable to our club for many years to come.

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Tom McDonald is an elite reader of the footy. You can't be a "not so smart" player and be an elite reader of the play.

The only downside to Tom is his disposal by foot, which we know goes from acceptable to diabolical. But his decision making is very good, and any player capable of playing forward, ruck and back in the space of 4 weeks, is a smart player!

Agree  -  Tmac is a good reader of the footy coming in. (elite is bandied about a little too much for my liking - Alex Rance is an elite reader of the play ) He can be diabolic by foot but can also make poor decisions when he overthinks things.  However his pluses very much outweigh his negatives. 

I think Jack Fitzpatrick went ruck , forward and back ( and then out !) but that's an argument for another day.... 

It is purely a subjective argument but I would not list being a smart footballer as one of  TMac's key attributes. That doesn't mean that he isn't one of the first picked every week.

 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

Agree  -  Tmac is a good reader of the footy coming in. (elite is bandied about a little too much for my liking - Alex Rance is an elite reader of the play ) He can be diabolic by foot but can also make poor decisions when he overthinks things.  However his pluses very much outweigh his negatives. 

I think Jack Fitzpatrick went ruck , forward and back ( and then out !) but that's an argument for another day.... 

It is purely a subjective argument but I would not list being a smart footballer as one of  TMac's key attributes. That doesn't mean that he isn't one of the first picked every week.

 

Yes, but we really don't know, we're just guessing working on limited material.

We've just come to different conclusions.

5 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Who'd you prefer to climb Everest with, a mate whose never done it before, or one whose successfully done it four times..? 

 

At the minute, I'd choose my mate who has never done it before, over Sir Edmund Hillary.

5 hours ago, nutbean said:

I shouldn't have really separated them - the comment was borne of being burned by our  club with past recruits who offered similar to Lewis. We have brought in players in the past who were meant to "bring experience" and that just hasn't happened -  premiership players (Lumumba, Dawes to name but two) who haven't offered enough in terms of experience. In fairness to Dawes he was apparently offering plenty at training and working with our younger KPP
 but couldn't do it on the field.

Cross was an absolute gem  - not only leading by example but also by his direction. To me Lewis is the same. He is playing good football ( without being spectacular) and his is providing experience and leadership. 

 

 

Balanced assessment

 

Lewis seems to have a few critics on the internet. I saw the Demonblog guy (who I normally rate as a very astute judge) say Shannon Byrnes produced more on the field than him!

Facts are we have an 80% winning record with Lewis in the team and 0% without.

29 touches again today and the match saving mark (well technically it wasn't, but you know...)

Worth every penny.

 

I actually thought he was just OK. A bit fumbly and didn't take clean possession every time, along with some turnovers by foot.

3 minutes ago, Sylvia Saint said:

Lewis seems to have a few critics on the internet. I saw the Demonblog guy (who I normally rate as a very astute judge) say Shannon Byrnes produced more on the field than him!

Facts are we have an 80% winning record with Lewis in the team and 0% without.

29 touches again today and the match saving mark (well technically it wasn't, but you know...)

Worth every penny.

 

Lots of dinky handpasses and his ability to put his head over the ball is coming into question.

Can't we do this on Monday, guys?!

Fans have to look beyond 20 possessions from a midfielder as a good game. We get 400 as a team, so everyone is a chance to get 20. I thought Lewis' undisciplined free kicks in the 3rd were atrocious leadership. We needed calm heads and the late high spoil for the 50m penalty, and the blatant push into Petrie, were just dumb. Thought he was just ok again. 

Thought Bernie Vince was more influential today. I am surprised at how often Lewis turns it over but I'm sure his infield leadership is really important especially when it's tight.

I was frustrated with Lewis tonight and wondered what has happened to him because he was dropping marks and butchering the ball but all was forgiven when he had the sense to stay in the backline and was there to take that mark on the siren. 

Thought Lewis was poor for much of the game. Ring a ring a rosy handballs. Stupid 50 metre penalties and free kicks. Appeared at times the game was too quick for him.

I thought Lewis was pretty average. I have thought he has been pretty average most the year. He may get a lot of the ball - but he doesn't seem to do a lot with it. However, I suspect he does drive high standards among the playing group, and I think he is well respected. I have no problem if Lewis continues to play below his best if we keep winning. But I don't believe we can run both Lewis and Tyson in our midfield. It is like Essendon running both Heppell and Watson.

I'd rate him as average for most of the game but the last quarter he stood up with some telling calmness and toughness. 

He still makes us better in my opinion, he seems to be someone the players look for when it gets manic. 

It's funny how Lewis keeps playing for teams that get up in close losses. 

Think he was a little down tonight but his value to the team is unquestionable. The off the ball stuff, the experience and leadership he brings. I think there's some good opinions being brought forward here and it's great to discuss but if you honestly think he's done nothing to help the midfield group this year and if you think our unit was as strong last year without him then I'm not sure we're watching the same games. If one of our guys gets targeted by the opposition like Oliver at HT tonight he's the first in there and getting in their face. The culture is changing at Melbourne and he is playing a part in that.

i didn't expect Paddy Dangerfield performances when he came across. I expected a guy who is past his prime to offer value in progressing our mids. Has he had some down games? Yes. Will he make it to the 3 years? I don't know, maybe not. Is he doing what we got him for? Yes 

I can live with him being down on pace and even not that great defensive running. We can move him around to hide that. Skills good but not great, good ability to get the ball out space.

 

But if he doesn't stop shirking it soon he needs a run in the 2's. ASAP. 

Young Oscar McDonald has lovely skills, reads it well enough and could be a player, but he shows occasions where his priority is protecting himself rather than attacking contests. He can't have a leader along side him like Lewis pulling up short steps on leads, not bending down to get the ball, hot potato handballing or punching the ball on instead of taking some contact. The self preservation act has got to go before it spreads throughout the team.