Tigers zone defence was incredible today

They play three talls (Astbury, Rance and Grimes) plus their run and gun thru Ellis and Houli - but it’s the way their whole midfield rolls in the contest is unreal - Crows couldn’t get it past the wing at one stage

If we’re playing a zone defence with O Mac, Frost and Lever plus run and gun thru Hunt, Hibberd and Jetta, it’ll be interesting to see how the rolling zone works for us next year

I seriously think Lever will contribute enormously to our side as part of a zonal defensive structure

A rating of 4 = 3rd round pick lol

10     1st round pick x 2

9-8    1st & 2nd round pick 

7-6    1st round pick

5       2nd round pick

4       3rd round pick

3-1    Forget about it...

Lever is not worth a pick 10.

If they throw in someone else who wants to leave then that is a possibility.

Alternatively we offer a round 2 and some giveaway (watts)

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I would only give pick 10 for Lever.  Nothing more.  He would not win you a grand final.  

A good player but not a game changer.  

Disagree. You completely underestimate the importance of an intercept marker in the modern game. At 21 years of age, he will become like Rance, who himself didn't click until 25ish. When you take into account Melbourne's midfield of Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Jones (who in time) will be better than BCrouch, MCrouch, Sloane et al, he'll be an even better player.

Rance didn't get a lot of it today, but I'd make a strong case for him being worthy of the Norm Smith (as much as I hate him). Any time they kicked it near him, Richmond were able to neutralise the contest at worst and any other time, wherever Rance positioned himself meant that Richmond's defence was dictating where Adelaide could kick the ball.

Rance's ability to intercept meant that Adelaide had to keep it away from him (and therefore dangerous areas for them to attack) and they were unable to do so.

In short, a player of Lever's calibre can win or lose you a game. Exhibit A today's Grand Final. Exhibit B our game against Adelaide in Adelaide (Adelaide were minus Lever and it played a big part).

1 hour ago, Roost It said:

I actually thought Kelly was the pick of the Crows defenders today

Thought Kelly was very, very fumbly. Was okay in a few contests, but doesn't have the poise of Lever. The Adelaide defence will really struggle without Lever. If Talia goes down they're in big trouble.

59 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

 

I seriously think Lever will contribute enormously to our side as part of a zonal defensive structure

Agree. And i have no doubt this why we have targeted him and won't mind paying 'overs' (whatever that means)

1 hour ago, A F said:

Disagree. You completely underestimate the importance of an intercept marker in the modern game. At 21 years of age, he will become like Rance, who himself didn't click until 25ish. When you take into account Melbourne's midfield of Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Jones (who in time) will be better than BCrouch, MCrouch, Sloane et al, he'll be an even better player.

Rance didn't get a lot of it today, but I'd make a strong case for him being worthy of the Norm Smith (as much as I hate him). Any time they kicked it near him, Richmond were able to neutralise the contest at worst and any other time, wherever Rance positioned himself meant that Richmond's defence was dictating where Adelaide could kick the ball.

Rance's ability to intercept meant that Adelaide had to keep it away from him (and therefore dangerous areas for them to attack) and they were unable to do so.

In short, a player of Lever's calibre can win or lose you a game. Exhibit A today's Grand Final. Exhibit B our game against Adelaide in Adelaide (Adelaide were minus Lever and it played a big part).

I'm getting sick of reading this comparison.

Rance plays key position on a key forward every week. Lever never plays on a key forward. There is a big difference and it's extremely wishful thinking if you think he will be a similar player.

45 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I'm getting sick of reading this comparison.

Rance plays key position on a key forward every week. Lever never plays on a key forward. There is a big difference and it's extremely wishful thinking if you think he will be a similar player.

Rance has played years on the 2nd and 3rd tall and really only in the last two or so years has he been able to compete with the big boys physically.

Initially, he was all about third man upping and to a degree still is, as we saw with Hogan beating him up in 2015, he's best as a third up defender.

But the way the game is played these days, there are no stringent positions and players rotate across multiple areas of the ground and opponents.

Point is, the comparison is completely valid.

Edited September 30, 20177 yr by A F

A nice player and worth a Pick 10 - 15 and 4 years at $600k. I'd be developing Joel Smith and using early picks on outside mids who can seriously run & kick. 

astbury takes the #1 forward as a rule for the tiggas, allowing rance to zone off...exactly like lever will (hopefully) do for us

14 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

astbury takes the #1 forward as a rule for the tiggas, allowing rance to zone off...exactly like lever will (hopefully) do for us

Precisely. 

15 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

A nice player and worth a Pick 10 - 15 and 4 years at $600k. I'd be developing Joel Smith and using early picks on outside mids who can seriously run & kick. 

Can't really believe we're putting someone like Smith in the same sentence as Lever.

Smith looked out of his depth for almost every minute this year, despite the huge wraps on him coming into the season. I'm not saying he won't make it, but he's got a long way to go to even show he's a reliable defender, let alone a potential star. Lever has shown that however...

lever isn't that good....

please target mids instead of kpd's

oscar mcdonald could end up better than lever.. and oscar is pretty bad

6 minutes ago, Elegt said:

lever isn't that good....

please target mids instead of kpd's

oscar mcdonald could end up better than lever.. and oscar is pretty bad

Hope you got an umbrella, pal ! 

On 04/06/2017 at 12:07 AM, big_red_fire_engine said:

With Talia and Hartigan at the Crows when does Lever ever play on a decent key forward? He looks great as a third tall interceptor but not much I have seen of him taking the number 1 job. 

You were then, and still are, dead right!

1 hour ago, A F said:

Rance has played years on the 2nd and 3rd tall and really only in the last two or so years has he been able to compete with the big boys physically.

Initially, he was all about third man upping and to a degree still is, as we saw with Hogan beating him up in 2015, he's best as a third up defender.

But the way the game is played these days, there are no stringent positions and players rotate across multiple areas of the ground and opponents.

Point is, the comparison is completely valid.

No, Rance has always played on the key forwards, since day dot.

He still nearly always plays on the 1st or 2nd tall now. Lever never does and that is a big difference, means you have to carry an extra tall player in the team.

The bolded part is true, but seeing his lack of pace today is a worry if he is not gonna matchup on the talls.

Watched him closely at the ground and he played reasonably well considering the cards he was dealt.

Tagged all day by Townsend who belted in to him with elbows off the ball non stop. Lever often positioned himself in front of Riewoldt's space and took away Riewoldt's influence on the game. Talia couldn't go with Jack on a hard lead so it was important. Townsend would hold Lever non stop to prevent him jumping at the contest. The only time Lever returned the favour with a little tug of his shorts he was penalised a soft free for a goal.

Mopped up well under pressure and didn't fumble and had some aggressive kicks, went at 80% DE.

Still not sure how you can project him as a key defender with any confidence but I've got doubt he's a super smart football who can play the interceptor role.

Aside from what Lever brings directly, bringing him in may also pay big in allowing TMac to morph into a tall forward/2nd ruck role while also being able to go back when required. 

Edited October 1, 20177 yr by PaulRB

12 hours ago, Dee-licious said:

Townsend tagged Lever (interview with Townsend at the end of the game). An intercepting defender was tagged by their forward line. Our defenders don't get tagged. Just sayin'

Actually i reckon hunt was tagged a bit in the latter part of the year. Or at least a fair bit of work put into him to stop.his run out of the back half. It worked too as earlier in the season it was one of our major weapons. I supwct his metres gained stats fell off a cliff

8 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Aside from what Lever brings directly, bringing him in may also pay big in allowing TMac to morph into a tall forward/2nd ruck role while also being able to go back when required. 

Recounting Goodwin's comments when Tom was kicking goals up forward and coupled with his constant bloopers down back and the fact that JW is probably going, I agree with you.

9 hours ago, Elegt said:

lever isn't that good....

oscar mcdonald could end up better than lever.. and oscar is pretty bad

Keep dreaming, Lever is miles ahead of OMac

Edited October 1, 20177 yr by david_neitz_is_my_dad

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders...

One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

4 minutes ago, rpfc said:

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders...

One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

I've got a feeling you're point is 100% spot on rpfc.

We can only speculate but I reckon Goody wants to change the dynamic of the back 6 or 8 depending how they're going to play.

Dees have been notoriously bad at rebounding out of defence and bringing in Lever helps change that dynamic and moves out our bad ball users to the opposite end of the ground.

Who'd have though a bad field kick but solid 1v1 player in T Mac could be so dangerous forward?

It also gives opportunity for guys like Joel smith to develop further as a 3rd string defender and not a KPP.

From a Crows mate:

why don't we get Watts to play the Lever role for half the price and better kick?

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders...

One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

You actually explain why he does bring some excitement.  He's ( JL ) a pretty good disposer of the ball. Very much more often than not the ball goes to someone with advantage. Not even 50% of the time would that be the case at Melbourne currently.

I used to play as a forward..( moons ago granted, but the essential elements of the game are still there ) and what I look for in a good defender is a combination of two basics. Firstly they either deny you the ball, or if you do get it they deny you the opportunity to use it as you would prefer. At this Lever is quite good.

The opportunity to let Pig and Hunt off the leash a bit more as you suggest is the icing on the cake.