On 9 April 2017 at 1:36 PM, A F said:

Slightly digressional, but Stretch's speedy development is something that has far exceeded expectations, surely? His sound decision-making and speed add so much to our midfield.

I hadn't previously included him in the same conversation as Oliver, Viney, Tyson, Petracca, Brayshaw, Jones, Lewis, Salem and Vince, but he now sits alongside them and compliments them well.

He had a terrific first half yesterday (aside from one costly clanger). What he's now adding to his game is the ability to find the ball consistently. He gets himself into good positions, which makes the opposition accountable. 

He's also a very good mark. Billy Stretch will be the player who is perenially left in the margins of discussions about our best players, but by my estimations he is already one of the first ten picked every week. And he's only gonna get better. 

11 minutes ago, Webber said:

He's also a very good mark. Billy Stretch will be the player who is perenially left in the margins of discussions about our best players, but by my estimations he is already one of the first ten picked every week. And he's only gonna get better. 

He is also very consistent, an great trait and one that can sometomes be under valued. Jetts is similarly consistent

Third in the league in disposals after Round 3.   When was the last time a 19 year old did that?  I am gonna say never.

Edited April 10, 20178 yr by Petraccattack

54 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Barrett...first against the wall when the revolution comes!

why bother with a wall?

7 hours ago, daisycutter said:

why bother with a wall?

And why wait for a revolution?

28 disposals against the Cats after 35 in the first two rounds. It's early days, but it's clear that consistency is a massive concern for Clarry. 

7th in the Coaches Association running too.

 

14 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

28 disposals against the Cats after 35 in the first two rounds. It's early days, but it's clear that consistency is a massive concern for Clarry. 

Needs a couple of weeks at Casey.

2 hours ago, praha said:

Needs a couple of weeks at Casey.

Yeah pretty ordinary performance not to crack the 30 disposals mark. 

On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:35 AM, brendan said:

Check out access all areas on afl website Damien Barrett the [censored] brought up Oliver and carried on about his handballs being throws, Lyon and Lloyd got stuck into him about it as he is just that quick to handball 

 

1 minute ago, reynolds46 said:

 

That's an excellent likeness.

9 minutes ago, reynolds46 said:

 

my dog was offended

9 minutes ago, Kumamoto_Ken said:

That's an excellent likeness.

I think it's actually a real photo taken of him. He lives down Weribee way I believe..

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Yeah pretty ordinary performance not to crack the 30 disposals mark. 

He should be shown the door with Goodwin tbh.

On 4/10/2017 at 2:13 PM, Petraccattack said:

Third in the league in disposals after Round 3.   When was the last time a 19 year old did that?  I am gonna say never.

First for effective disposals!

Nathan Jones equal second, too.

Now I'm getting all warm and fuzzy.

On 10/04/2017 at 11:35 AM, brendan said:

Check out access all areas on afl website Damien Barrett the [censored] brought up Oliver and carried on about his handballs being throws, Lyon and Lloyd got stuck into him about it as he is just that quick to handball 

I find it amazing for a bloke in his second year performing the way he is and he has to find the one even slight negative. 

Jesus he did the same thing with Jesse and his goal kicking 

ave 33 disposals, 14 contested, 8 tackles, 6.3 clearances in 2017

leading all Dees in these areas and Chunk is in the form of his career

19 yo and played 15 games.

I need a good lie down

 As others have pointed out, Nathan Jones has actually taken another step.  The likes of Oliver have taken the heat off Jones and freed him up to be more damaging on the outside.  He must be loving footy in 2017.

Edited April 11, 20178 yr by ProDee

Nathan Jones has been freed up but could Oliver's rise be having an impact on Viney?

I have no idea how the individual mid-roles work at the clearances but is it possible Viney is being asked to play a different role with Clarry given first dibs as the nominated primary extractor? Does anyone have clear observations here of a notable difference in set-up this year?

I note till half-time vs. Geelong we'd only used the Jones/Viney/Oliver trio plus Tyson at the centre bounces (was this because Gawn went down or standard? Can anyone recall the set-ups after the break?).

Posters have talked of Jack's hesitancy this season to date - but if there was one stat I wish was available it would be actual 'possessions' as to disposals - the number of times a player had clear hold of the ball. Jack would have ranked very highly in the past - always with the pill at the bottom of the pack - but he's not actually touching the ball anywhere as near as much so far this season. 

Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

15 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Nathan Jones has been freed up but could Oliver's rise be having an impact on Viney?

I have no idea how the individual mid-roles work at the clearances but is it possible Viney is being asked to play a different role with Clarry given first dibs as the nominated primary extractor? Does anyone have clear observations here of a notable difference in set-up this year?

I note till half-time vs. Geelong we'd only used the Jones/Viney/Oliver trio plus Tyson at the centre bounces (was this because Gawn went down or standard? Can anyone recall the set-ups after the break?).

Posters have talked of Jack's hesitancy this season to date - but if there was one stat I wish was available it would be actual 'possessions' as to disposals - the number of times a player had clear hold of the ball. Jack would have ranked very highly in the past - always with the pill at the bottom of the pack - but he's not actually touching the ball anywhere as near as much so far this season. 

Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

He's still playing too much hero footy for mine. He doesn't have the same sharp footy brain that tells him when to give off instinctively like Oliver does (players rarely do - Clarry is a special talent). Jack reminds me more of a young Jones. But we've gotta be better than that hero footy stuff - Moloney was another terrible proponent of it. I've noticed Jack get caught a lot with the ball this season (as was the case pre-2016). Whereas, I felt last year he was keeping things simpler. 

The other thing about Viney is he's seen as potentially damaging by opposition teams, so they're putting more work into him this year. 

I can't imagine there's an instruction for Viney to hold back from the contest and having a designated primary extractor seems to go against Goody's philosophy too, which is back in our guys. I'd say we'd be all for Viney seeing ball and getting ball, although there may well be an increased focus on defensive efforts either during the contest or once the stoppage is completed. It might be this process that is leaving Viney second-guessing?

The dominance of Oliver and Jones this year is enough to put our midfield on top most weeks. If Viney can find some early 2016 form this year, we'd be pushing for the top 4. He averaged 26 disposals last year as a 21-22 year old. The difference between Oliver and Jones is that unlike Viney and Tyson, their disposal is fantastic. Jones continues to improve his disposal. His kicking on either side is terrific as of late.

So there may well be an increased focus for Jack on purity of disposal too, which might lead him to second-guess his instincts. 

If Jack can continue to improve his disposal and keep it simple, much like his co-captain has learnt over the journey, he'll be a much better player for it. And if we have a midfield that rarely makes mistakes by hand or foot and is brilliant has gaining possession regularly, we'll be sitting pretty near the top of the ladder.

8 hours ago, Skuit said:

Nathan Jones has been freed up but could Oliver's rise be having an impact on Viney?

I have no idea how the individual mid-roles work at the clearances but is it possible Viney is being asked to play a different role with Clarry given first dibs as the nominated primary extractor? Does anyone have clear observations here of a notable difference in set-up this year?

I note till half-time vs. Geelong we'd only used the Jones/Viney/Oliver trio plus Tyson at the centre bounces (was this because Gawn went down or standard? Can anyone recall the set-ups after the break?).

Posters have talked of Jack's hesitancy this season to date - but if there was one stat I wish was available it would be actual 'possessions' as to disposals - the number of times a player had clear hold of the ball. Jack would have ranked very highly in the past - always with the pill at the bottom of the pack - but he's not actually touching the ball anywhere as near as much so far this season. 

Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Oliver isn't getting in Viney's way, just like Dangerfield doesn't get in Selwood's.

Viney hasn't been playing a hard tag, but he did sacrifice some of his game as he kept Steven quiet and has played a slightly more defensive role in 2017.

If he could stop running around to try and get on his left when it's silly to do so it would help his game. 

We should perhaps look at our midfield as a collective, because they have specific roles that we're not necessarily privy to. 

Edited April 11, 20178 yr by ProDee

34 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Nathan Jones has been freed up but could Oliver's rise be having an impact on Viney?

I have no idea how the individual mid-roles work at the clearances but is it possible Viney is being asked to play a different role with Clarry given first dibs as the nominated primary extractor? Does anyone have clear observations here of a notable difference in set-up this year?

I note till half-time vs. Geelong we'd only used the Jones/Viney/Oliver trio plus Tyson at the centre bounces (was this because Gawn went down or standard? Can anyone recall the set-ups after the break?).

Posters have talked of Jack's hesitancy this season to date - but if there was one stat I wish was available it would be actual 'possessions' as to disposals - the number of times a player had clear hold of the ball. Jack would have ranked very highly in the past - always with the pill at the bottom of the pack - but he's not actually touching the ball anywhere as near as much so far this season. 

Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Oliver is more effective than Viney at present. If Oliver is impacting Viney, then Viney needs to adjust. In comparison to most elite mids - Oliver would compare favorably in contested ball. He is a clean player. Viney may need to add strings to his bow. If Oliver is taking some inside ball, then Viney is going to have to get on the end of some of that, and work hard defensively - put on blocks, tackles, etc.

22 minutes ago, A F said:

He's still playing too much hero footy for mine. He doesn't have the same sharp footy brain that tells him when to give off instinctively like Oliver does (players rarely do - Clarry is a special talent). Jack reminds me more of a young Jones. But we've gotta be better than that hero footy stuff - Moloney was another terrible proponent of it. I've noticed Jack get caught a lot with the ball this season (as was the case pre-2016). Whereas, I felt last year he was keeping things simpler. 

The other thing about Viney is he's seen as potentially damaging by opposition teams, so they're putting more work into him this year. 

I can't imagine there's an instruction for Viney to hold back from the contest and having a designated primary extractor seems to go against Goody's philosophy too, which is back in our guys. I'd say we'd be all for Viney seeing ball and getting ball, although there may well be an increased focus on defensive efforts either during the contest or once the stoppage is completed. It might be this process that is leaving Viney second-guessing?

.

He was playing hero-football last year but was much more effective. I still think he's getting first hands on the ball way less this season so curious as to that.

It may be that there's no instruction for Viney to sit back - but we have heard Oliver was being coached in a see-ball-get-ball manner and so maybe Viney has taken it on himself to sit back or is reluctant to get in Oliver's space?

14 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Viney isn't getting in Oliver's way, just like Dangerfield doesn't get in Selwood's.

Viney hasn't been playing a hard tag, but he did sacrifice some of his game as he kept Steven quiet and has played a slightly more defensive role in 2017.

If he could stop running around to try and get on his left when it's silly to do so it would help his game. 

We should perhaps look at our midfield as a collective, because they have specific roles that we're not necessarily privy to. 

I assume you mean Oliver isn't getting in Viney's way? Danger and Selwood are seasoned mids so I'm not sure the comparison is valid (although Jack and Oliver have played nearly the same number of games together.) And the playing a hard tag - do you mean that's where you think Jack's role has changed? I thought he had already transitioned last year - but Stevens and Danger (for a period) were kept quiet. Or is Jack copping a hard tag? I don't know - it's hard to pick up on television. 

The favouring the left I hadn't noticed so much this year - perhaps because he's getting it less and getting caught much more frequently.

I am interested in the mid-field as a collective and that's why I'm asking the question - because I also have no idea as to their specific roles.

9 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Oliver is more effective than Viney at present. If Oliver is impacting Viney, then Viney needs to adjust. In comparison to most elite mids - Oliver would compare favorably in contested ball. He is a clean player. Viney may need to add strings to his bow. If Oliver is taking some inside ball, then Viney is going to have to get on the end of some of that, and work hard defensively - put on blocks, tackles, etc.

I don't disagree. But maybe he's already doing that and we're being harsh judges on his current output?

Btw - cheers for your responses. Demonland after Dark can be a rewarding place on occasion.

Edited April 11, 20178 yr by Skuit
poor mathematics

Another article on clarry, and Joel smith too

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/clayton-oliver-and-joel-smith-compared-to-storm-greats-cameron-smith-and-greg-inglis/news-story/cec03e166d10cd231d9a0761cb55e7cd

Edited April 11, 20178 yr by brendan