40 minutes ago, P-man said:

Demonland generally doesn't deal with grey so well. It's either black or white. If you're not absolutely gun ho on a club decision, you're often labelled a fool or a "hater". If you post something that is beside yourself with joy at a decision the club has made and calling out anyone who thinks otherwise as a fool, you best bring your raincoat, because you will get showered in likes. 

I get why it is that way. It's optimism or bust at this point, and for the large part the optimism is well justified. It does however appear to be trending towards any doubts expressed being ridiculed. Which is not a good trend, in my opinion.

I don't care for TGR's approach, but I like the fact he has stuck to his guns and opened himself up to attack in the name of a discussion on Lewis that isn't all about how unbelievably amazing he will be.

Good post. I think we are all aware that there is no great white hope.  We have seen them come and go, some fail, come contribute something, some contribute a lot and win Brownlows.  However, it rarely converts into Premiership glory. As the saying goes, to win flags you need a champion team not a team of champions. To win flags you need a blend of skills, leadership, experience, toughness, depth, and resilience to injuries. You also need individual and team expectation and confidence that you can win every game you play and be able to go all the way.  You need exuberant youth and older wiser hardheads.  We are building this blend of players. Like Vince, with Lewis we are adding a player with many of the elements we need most.   He may be slowing up, he may be more prone to injury, but he brings a blend of skills, experience, leadership, toughness and winning know how.  Sure he is not the White Knight but he  walks into our team with a hell of a lot of what we don't have and what we need. As said before, like  the re-signing of Hogan, the move of Lewis to Melbourne instils confidence in the coaching staff, players, supporters, and the footy world that we are once again a decent footy club and not one to be scorned. The addition of Lewis and Hibberd, assuming they have an injury free run are going to make a hell of a difference to winning football games. 

9 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Good post. I think we are all aware that there is no great white hope.  We have seen them come and go, some fail, come contribute something, some contribute a lot and win Brownlows.  However, it rarely converts into Premiership glory. As the saying goes, to win flags you need a champion team not a team of champions. To win flags you need a blend of skills, leadership, experience, toughness, depth, and resilience to injuries. You also need individual and team expectation and confidence that you can win every game you play and be able to go all the way.  You need exuberant youth and older wiser hardheads.  We are building this blend of players. Like Vince, with Lewis we are adding a player with many of the elements we need most.   He may be slowing up, he may be more prone to injury, but he brings a blend of skills, experience, leadership, toughness and winning know how.  Sure he is not the White Knight but he  walks into our team with a hell of a lot of what we don't have and what we need. As said before, like  the re-signing of Hogan, the move of Lewis to Melbourne instils confidence in the coaching staff, players, supporters, and the footy world that we are once again a decent footy club and not one to be scorned. The addition of Lewis and Hibberd, assuming they have an injury free run are going to make a hell of a difference to winning football games. 

Absolutely, and it's not blind optimism to be very happy with both signings. I look at our 22 on paper now and think we can absolutely play finals in 2017. That's hugely exciting. But it's also okay to have reservations. We shouldn't let the trauma (for want of a better word) of the last ten (or 50) years limit our ability to express those as well.

Edited October 19, 20168 yr by P-man

48 minutes ago, P-man said:

Demonland generally doesn't deal with grey so well.

Good post. Though I would argue that if there was ever an event to just be happy to see, it would be getting a 4 time premiership star (and maybe Hogan signing). The posts I'm taking aim at aren't the reasonably thought out ones that balance positivity with realism. I'm taking aim at the ones who do nothing but moan. And there's a handful.

6 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Good post. I think we are all aware that there is no great white hope.  

I was thinking this the other day. I remember when Roos signed he said he wanted there to be no more expecting a great white hope. Then Hogan signed, and players are wanting to come to the club. I mean... like it or lump it... 

Lewis has always relied on brilliant smarts, reading the play, contested ball-winning and silky disposal.

Even if he won't be as good on the spread as younger players, Melbourne's contested ball-winning is far superior to Hawthorn's and Lewis' role can alter accordingly.  His lack of a pace will be less of an issue in a team that's game-plan is to outnumber at the contest and then spread in multiple directions. 

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

Lewis has always relied on brilliant smarts, reading the play, contested ball-winning and silky disposal.

Even if he won't be as good on the spread as younger players, Melbourne's contested ball-winning is far superior to Hawthorn's and Lewis' role can alter accordingly.  His lack of a pace will be less of an issue in a team that's game-plan is to outnumber at the contest and then spread in multiple directions. 

Always thought that's where he did his best work, with ball in hand. I don't understand where everyone thinks he's going to help Jones. Jones has more than enough hard nuts around him. It's that kick I'm interested in.

3 hours ago, rumpole said:

You won't have too many arguments from most supporters that his decision to take the money and run was not the right thing to do from his perspective. It was in his interests to do so and nobody in their right mind would have suggested otherwise to him.

Rather, it was the way the entire thing was handled by the Scully camp and the GWS (read the AFL at the time). Melbourne had no chance of matching the offer made even if that could be done and the AFL blocked off all avenues available (such as a Judd type deal).

There is evidence that the lure had gone out to Scully very early in the piece and it was the lies and deception around the situation that made many of us Scully bashers. 

Last para is the guts of the issue. Let's just call it honesty or lack thereof.  I don't blame Scully for going. It was not as if he just got a better offer. He was given an offer that was Huge. An offer to set himself up for life, injury or no injury. He was a young impressionable guy with older cunning men all around him, telling him what to do. Father and Sheedy to name the best or worst examples. And what the older wiser heads should have told young Tom is that it is always best to be upfront and honest with people. No one likes being lied to.  However, when we are young, we are inexperienced in life, we take risks, and we are easily influenced by peers and our elders. We take advice from others which is sometimes wrong. we make wrong decisions based on this advice.   It is not that Scully made the wrong decision, it is how he and his camp behaved and the perception created that he was not honest in his dealings.

5 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Last para is the guts of the issue. Let's just call it honesty or lack thereof.  I don't blame Scully for going. It was not as if he just got a better offer. He was given an offer that was Huge. An offer to set himself up for life, injury or no injury. He was a young impressionable guy with older cunning men all around him, telling him what to do. Father and Sheedy to name the best or worst examples. And what the older wiser heads should have told young Tom is that it is always best to be upfront and honest with people. No one likes being lied to.  However, when we are young, we are inexperienced in life, we take risks, and we are easily influenced by peers and our elders. We take advice from others which is sometimes wrong. we make wrong decisions based on this advice.   It is not that Scully made the wrong decision, it is how he and his camp behaved and the perception created that he was not honest in his dealings.

It's fine to hate Scully in a cartoon villain sense. But for anyone who genuinely hates a 20 year old dealing with an unprecedented situation, with millions of dollars at stake, a reshuffle of priorities is in order.

The vast majority of people would've made the same decision he did, and likely stumbled their way through it.

Not angry at him taking the offer. Geez... the only club I would take less money to play for is my beloved demons (and yeah, I'm a romantic), but I'm not going to get to righteous about a kid getting told he will have millions in the bank at 25, and saying yes to it. However what really [censored] off about it was the way it was done and the way he went about it. The BS was unnecessary, and the AFL has dirty hands on this deal (again), which annoys me more. But as P-man said in different words - you can't put old head on young shoulders...

Stopped caring about Scully the moment I saw Hogan kick his first goal though.

Edited October 20, 20168 yr by Uncle Fester

2 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

lewis has played less than 20 games in two seasons of his entire career. he's been incredibly durable and consistent.

i'll be surprised if he has a season in the next three where he has less than 10 games in the red and blue.

three years is nothing for a modern footballer at the age of 30, and with our plethora of inside mids he's going to get a lot more rotations in / out than he has got at the hawks where he's been the main starting mid alongside mitchell for the last decade.

getting lewis and hibberd for effectively a second round pick is one of the best bargains we've ever had.

Don't disagree, but I think Daniel Cross was similar in playing contribution, leadership and durability over most of his career, but yet the club decided he wasn't up to continuing this year.

Hard to predict if and when aging players will fall off a cliff physically and or to some degree mentally.

I'm guessing the club would probably have preferred to have signed Lewis up for 2 years with the option of an extension, but obviously 3 years was the price we had to pay to get the deal done.  Without knowing exactly how much salary cap space Lewis is taking up, I'm certainly in favour of decision the club has made in terms of risk Vs reward.

Edited October 20, 20168 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

33 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Last para is the guts of the issue. Let's just call it honesty or lack thereof. 

Name a high profile player who has been honest with their intentions prior to year end.  Danger, Buddy, Chip, Scully, O'Meara.

Scully is no different to all of them, was much younger and the subject of huge media pressure because GWS was going to be a first year club.  Scully's decision was NOT just about money, it was as much about us as a club and those that don't recognize that are silly.  We were dysfunctional.  And I know one shouldn't Pizz on a statue, but the hounding of Scully by Jim was a  meaningful factor in Scully's decision to move.

He left, he made a totally logical decision to benefit himself and his family, we were over compensated and those that still hate are just haters and in my view misguided and silly.

Scully is a large reason we are so bullish today and whilst he didn't do it for that reason I hold not one dot of malice towards him. 

 

In the excitement of bringing Jordan Lewis aboard there is much commentary on his leadership and experience in winning 3 flags in a row 2013/15 - all absolutely correct and positive for the MFC.

In addition to this, I think his 2008 experience will be invaluable.  He was only 22 at the time, the same as Viney, Petracca et al now, and they came from the clouds to knock off the dominant teams and win a premiership.  His locker room tales of 2008 will be inspirational.

53 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Lewis has always relied on brilliant smarts, reading the play, contested ball-winning and silky disposal.

The other things that give me confidence are that he has never relied on pace and I'm not sure he's got a lot to lose and he has always had that ability to find space and time through his awareness.  His decision making is fantastic.

It' a bit of a laugh when one of the best players in a four time premiership team who in the last three seasons has won a B&F and a second in the B&F is not welcomed with open arms particularly when we paid nothing for him.

If he only plays two years it won't matter, he's a great get.

9 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

The other things that give me confidence are that he has never relied on pace and I'm not sure he's got a lot to lose and he has always had that ability to find space and time through his awareness.  His decision making is fantastic.

It' a bit of a laugh when one of the best players in a four time premiership team who in the last three seasons has won a B&F and a second in the B&F is not welcomed with open arms particularly when we paid nothing for him.

If he only plays two years it won't matter, he's a great get.

Michael Gleeson from The Age has been questioning the move by Melbourne this morning on SEN, but as you say, the whole speed issue is overblown if you're a contested ball-winning team, who moves the ball quickly and knows where to spread.

The Dogs just won a flag, but how quick is their midfield ?  Libba, Hunter, Bontempelli are not speedsters.  They've got JJ off half-back, while we've got Hunt.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with the pace of Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Stretch, Kent, Harmes.  Some of those players aren't express, but foot speed isn't a liability.

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Always thought that's where he did his best work, with ball in hand. I don't understand where everyone thinks he's going to help Jones. Jones has more than enough hard nuts around him. It's that kick I'm interested in.

He is going to help Jones carry the leadership burden, which is I think the single most important part of getting Lewis to the club.

We still lack mature leaders. Only so much we can expect from guys like Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver etc., and to me Vince isn't a great on field leader. 

Lewis brings the sort of game-winning game-turning maturity that we desperately need on the field!

On 10/19/2016 at 1:16 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

As long as we get 2 strong years out of Lewis. 

His game against the Bulldogs last month does concern me a little....

He was injured early in that game IIRC. His game the week before was exceptional.

On 19 October 2016 at 4:26 PM, DemonDave said:

I had my sarcasm hat on for that post!

Then I salute you DD!

 

 

Michael Gleeson from The Age has been questioning the move by Melbourne this morning on SEN, but as you say, the whole speed issue is overblown if you're a contested ball-winning team, who moves the ball quickly and knows where to spread.

The Dogs just won a flag, but how quick is their midfield ?  Libba, Hunter, Bontempelli are not speedsters.  They've got JJ off half-back, while we've got Hunt.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with the pace of Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Stretch, Kent, Harmes.  Some of those players aren't express, but foot speed isn't a liability.

I agree the whole issue of speed is overblown. What matters more than top end speed is players using the speed they have - effectively. For example, Jack Viney uses the speed he has brilliantly - bursting out of a stoppage. It is the first few steps that matter. We have a few players who can do that. Petracca does it well, Viney, Oliver has a burst of speed. Some of these journalists who do need understand the game look at speed as in top end speed. They see Lewis Jetta running down the wing and automatically assume that sides without players able to do that - lack speed. We have speed, and more importantly, we have players who are starting to get their timing right. When I think of the Bulldogs, I look at Bontempelli, not an overly quick player, but a very smart player, he reads the game well, and he is able to time his run better (as a result). That is where Jordan Lewis will help our young brigade, to better understand the game, to read the play better, and to time their run.

 

Why do we need your take when we've heard how things transpired in the Lewis press conference? BTW, your take isn't even close to reality.

I suggest you read the article in the Herald Sun today, now the smoke has cleared, seems my take was close Mo

 

Don't count me as one of the Lewis haters by any means, I'm just as rapped that we were able to recruit him as I was when we picked up Bernie.  However, I do harbour some fears/concerns regarding how well his body and form will hold up, particularly for the full three years.  Bernie was a good number of years younger when he arrived at the MFC and I'm not sure that I'd agree that Bernie is inferior to Lewis as a player.  He faded towards the end of this year, but Bernie certainly played some dominating, influential games this season and more so over the two years prior, be it in a weaker team, which I take as adding to the value of his performances.

Yes the leadership that Lewis brings to the club is very important, but it's almost starting to become a bit over stated within this forum.  I'm certainly hoping his on feild form holds out at an acceptable level, for the remainder of his contract, which is certainly possible, but not a given at his age.

Similarly, Bernie is a player who may be having conflicting feelings about Lewis's arrival.  On the one hand, hopefully Lewis should share some of the heavy lifting and may assist in prolonging Bernie's career in that way. I understand why Lewis was given the three years and I'm sure Bernie does too, but on the other hand I can't help but feel Bernie may be a little envious of the three years that Lewis is contracted when he was only given a one year extension - which could also impact negatively on the longevity of Bernie's career.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out ...hopefully more wins and to the overall advancement of the team.

I think Bernie played with a few injuries this year and I expect a better performance next season. Hopefully they will settle Bernie down in a position and not use him as a stop gap where needed, he will benefit with the inclusion of a couple of tough nuts and maybe he won't feel the need to belt someone every week, they can take it in turns now.

 

This deal was like walking into a Rolex liquidation sale without knowing there was a sale on. 

This stuff never happens to us.

Go Dee's 2017!!

 

 

 

 

Always thought that's where he did his best work, with ball in hand. I don't understand where everyone thinks he's going to help Jones. Jones has more than enough hard nuts around him. It's that kick I'm interested in.

But he will help Jones with decision making something he needs help with. 

Was not able to get herald sun 

can someone summarize how Lewis got to us 

 

Was not able to get herald sun 

can someone summarize how Lewis got to us 

Yep. Clarkson told him that he was not a guaranteed starter beyond 2017.

Lewis decided to seek other opportunities and spoke to his manager to try and secure a trade with Melbourne.

Presto.

 

Agreed...2017 will be the most valuable...

And 2019 will be in the VFL developing our younger players which is also very valuable.

Haven't read all the posts but I'm sure Lewis main role is to provide leadership & teach our young guns what it takes to play finals & win flags .. May play some decent games as he come 2nd in Hawks b&f .. A bargain get for a 4 time premiership player..  Remember flags are won by teams not by an individual!