FA & Trade Whispers

[Deeman 1,403]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

So who have Carlton landed since Judd?

The entire GWS reserves?

[stuie 7,374]

39 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

So who have Carlton landed since Judd?

More quality talent have announced Carlton as their destination club before trade period than Melbourne or the Bulldogs.

Even Hibberd hasn't announced anything.

The argument is "destination" clubs, we are not one, clearly.

 

[chook fowler 18,325]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Barassi said:

word around the traps is that Chip Frawley wants back in... wants to play finals again before he retires

Along with Howe who is now happy to play in the backline

[Binmans PA 26,261]

21 minutes ago, stuie said:

More quality talent have announced Carlton as their destination club before trade period than Melbourne or the Bulldogs.

Even Hibberd hasn't announced anything.

The argument is "destination" clubs, we are not one, clearly.

 

We play our cards close to our chest and I assure you we're a lot better regarded as a football club now than we were. I wouldn't say we're a destination club yet, but it's ridiculous to suggest Richmond or Carlton are either.

* Richmond haven't been able to attract anyone of note despite making the 8 three years running.

* Carlton's list is horrible and they're going nowhere fast.

* The stench at Essendon is palpable and has clearly worked against them for close to 5 years.

* Collingwood managed to convince Treloar on big dollars to make the switch, but I think players will second-guess going to Collingwood this off-season.

I'd say Hawthorn and Geelong are the only two legitimate destination clubs, but won't be for much longer. If the Dogs can steal a flag this year or get to the Grand Final, I think you'll see them become a legitimate destination club over the off-season. I don't think we're that far behind many clubs and we're in front of quite a few. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by A F

[stuie 7,374]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

We play our cards close to our chest and I assure you we're a lot better regarded as a football club now than we were. I wouldn't say we're a destination club yet, but it's ridiculous to suggest Richmond or Carlton are either. Richmond haven't been able to attract anyone of note despite making the 8 three years running. Carlton's list is horrible and they're going nowhere fast. The stench at Essendon is palpable and has clearly worked against them for close to 5 years. Collingwood managed to convince Treloar on big dollars to make the switch. I think players will second-guess going to Collingwood this off-season too. I'd say Hawthorn and Geelong are the only two legitimate destination clubs, but won't be for much longer. If the Dogs can steal a flag this year or get to the Grand Final, I think you'll see them become a destination club over the off-season. I don't think we're that far behind many clubs and we're in front of quite a few. 

We've massively improved as far as being a club that can attract players, but that's not what the argument was about originally. The original post I replied to was claiming we were the 3rd destination club behind Hawthorn and Geelong, which I find an utterly ridiculous assertion.

The way I see it, being under the radar operators is great but there is an advantage from a perception point of view when players actually come out and name a club as their choice, it would surely make other players think that club is more attractive. The fact O'Meara, Prestia, Treloar, Adams, Marchbank or any of the other talented names changing clubs have come out and named other clubs and no one has come out and said "I want to play for Melbourne" until a deal is pretty much done in trade week says we are not yet a "destination club", but we are heading that way if we keep improving.

[Binmans PA 26,261]

14 minutes ago, stuie said:

We've massively improved as far as being a club that can attract players, but that's not what the argument was about originally. The original post I replied to was claiming we were the 3rd destination club behind Hawthorn and Geelong, which I find an utterly ridiculous assertion.

The way I see it, being under the radar operators is great but there is an advantage from a perception point of view when players actually come out and name a club as their choice, it would surely make other players think that club is more attractive. The fact O'Meara, Prestia, Treloar, Adams, Marchbank or any of the other talented names changing clubs have come out and named other clubs and no one has come out and said "I want to play for Melbourne" until a deal is pretty much done in trade week says we are not yet a "destination club", but we are heading that way if we keep improving.

 

I don't think it's that ridiculous. I'd say we're just as likely to attract someone now as any other club other than Hawthorn, Geelong and maybe the Bulldogs.

[stuie 7,374]

9 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't think it's that ridiculous. I'd say we're just as likely to attract someone now as any other club other than Hawthorn, Geelong and maybe the Bulldogs.

Yes but we're not talking about "someone" and we're not talking about attracting them, we're talking about them announcing they want to play for us.

Prestia, O'Meara and Marchbank have already announced where they want to go.

 

[Binmans PA 26,261]

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yes but we're not talking about "someone" and we're not talking about attracting them, we're talking about them announcing they want to play for us.

Prestia, O'Meara and Marchbank have already announced where they want to go.

 

And you think their choice of destination is based on 'destination' factor of the clubs they've nominated? I think you'll find that cash has done the talking for Prestia and Marchbank. And as I've already mentioned about Hawthorn, yeah, they are a destination club, hence O'Meara's nomination.

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

5 minutes ago, A F said:

And you think their choice of destination is based on 'destination' factor of the clubs they've nominated? I think you'll find that cash has done the talking for Prestia and Marchbank. And as I've already mentioned about Hawthorn, yeah, they are a destination club, hence O'Meara's nomination.

I reckon there might be an element of cash behind the factors persuading O'Meara about his choice of club too.

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

And you think their choice of destination is based on 'destination' factor of the clubs they've nominated? I think you'll find that cash has done the talking for Prestia and Marchbank. And as I've already mentioned about Hawthorn, yeah, they are a destination club, hence O'Meara's nomination.

Mixed messages mate. You're saying cash is king but also saying "destination" is what drives them, which is it?

Being a "destination club" doesn't always mean you're more successful than another club, there can be any number of reasons including culture, facilities, connections and the fact that going to a club with more press exposure like Carlton, Richmond, Essendon etc gives you a better chance of a great career after the playing days are over.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,266]

5 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I reckon there might be an element of cash behind the factors persuading O'Meara about his choice of club too.

Do you mean pay packet or brown paper bag? 

Edited September 17, 2016 by america de cali

[stuie 7,374]

6 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I reckon there might be an element of cash behind the factors persuading O'Meara about his choice of club too.

So what you think is happening then, is we are THE destination club but we're offering O'Meara say 350k but he's choosing the Hawks for 700k?

Fantasy land stuff.

 

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

I haven't suggested we're a destination club. Rather, that the destination is one of a number of factors involved when a player makes a decision to go to another club. 

[Binmans PA 26,261]

32 minutes ago, stuie said:

Mixed messages mate. You're saying cash is king but also saying "destination" is what drives them, which is it?

Being a "destination club" doesn't always mean you're more successful than another club, there can be any number of reasons including culture, facilities, connections and the fact that going to a club with more press exposure like Carlton, Richmond, Essendon etc gives you a better chance of a great career after the playing days are over.

 

So who have Carlton, Richmond and Essendon landed recently? There seems to be this reoccurring need to stick the boots into our club from some of our own supporters. Let's stop slitting our wrists and acknowledge that we sit just as likely to lure someone as Carlton, Richmond or Essendon and probably even more likely. We have better facilities, development teams and a more exciting young list than either of those three clubs.

If we're talking money though, that is also a factor and not a mixed message. Simply another factor why a player would jump ship.

I'm not going to wallow in negativity because of where we've been. It's okay to say we've turned a corner off the field. We have and we're just as likely to lure players as anyone else, aside from Hawthorn, Geelong and the Bulldogs that stand ahead of us. That will change though.

Edited September 17, 2016 by A F

[stuie 7,374]

5 minutes ago, A F said:

So who have Carlton, Richmond and Essendon landed recently? There seems to be this reoccurring need to stick the boots into our club from some of our own supporters. Let's stop slitting our wrists and acknowledge that we sit just as likely to lure someone as Carlton, Richmond or Essendon and probably even more likely. We have better facilities, development teams and a more exciting young list than either of those three clubs.

If we're talking money though, that is also a factor and not a mixed message. Simply another factor why a player would jump ship.

I'm not going to wallow in negativity because of where we've been. It's okay to say we've turned a corner off the field. We have and we're just as likely to lure players as anyone else, aside from Hawthorn, Geelong and the Bulldogs that stand ahead of us. That will change though.

I'm just gonna agree to disagree and move on mate because you keep moving the goalposts on this discussion. Nowhere have I expressed any negativity or stuck the boots into the club, but different to some here who seem to have already embraced the offseason "we;re flying" mentality, I'm a realist about where we currently sit in the pecking order of AFL teams.

I'll just leave you with this: Quality players have already named other clubs as their preferred destination, we are looking increasingly likely to lose our biggest name player and even the average player we're likely to land hasn't even named us. We are factually not a destination club.

 

 

[Mach5 4,482]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

More quality talent have announced Carlton as their destination club before trade period than Melbourne or the Bulldogs.

Even Hibberd hasn't announced anything.

The argument is "destination" clubs, we are not one, clearly.

 

 

How is this even an argument? Everyone I'm the industry knows where he is going.

We haven't got the numbers of players names out there in the ether because we don't have much to offer come trade time & need to keep our cards close to our chest.

Last year we brought in Bugg, Kennedy & Melksham. They obviously saw MFC as a desire able destination. How many Dangerfields are there out there each year? Who exactly have we missed out on that we should have been into?

This is such a silly argument.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Mach5

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Mach5 said:

 

How is this even an argument? Everyone I'm the industry knows where he is going.

We haven't got the numbers of players names out there in the ether because we don't have much to offer come trade time & need to keep our cards close to our chest.

Last year we brought in Bugg, Kennedy & Melksham. They obviously saw MFC as a desire able destination. How many Dangerfields are there out there each year? Who exactly have we missed out on that we should have been into?

This is such a silly argument.

Do they?

Prestia: I want to go to Richmond.

O'Meara: I want to go to Hawthorn.

Marchbank: I want to go to Carlton.

Hibberd: .........

I've already explained about the influence of perception and the difference between having to "lure" a player and having them announce you as their destination, it's the entire point of the discussion and the definition of "destination club".

 

 

[Mach5 4,482]

11 minutes ago, stuie said:

Do they?

Prestia: I want to go to Richmond.

O'Meara: I want to go to Hawthorn.

Marchbank: I want to go to Carlton.

Hibberd: .........

I've already explained about the influence of perception and the difference between having to "lure" a player and having them announce you as their destination, it's the entire point of the discussion and the definition of "destination club".

 

 

Really? The difference between them is that difficult for you to decipher?

Ok, I'll spell it out for you:

Prestia, O'Meara & Marchbank are all trying to force their way to their respective nominated destinations, and naming their desired club assists in that; Hibberd is already going to MFC, the deal has been done, he doesn't need to influence proceedings with public statements of intent.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Mach5 said:

Really? The difference between them is that difficult for you to decipher?

Ok, I'll spell it out for you:

Prestia, O'Meara & Marchbank are all trying to force their way to their respective nominated destinations, and naming their desired club assists in that; Hibberd is already going to MFC, the deal has been done, he doesn't need to influence proceedings with public statements of intent.

Lol righto... So Hibberd has already spoken to MFC, but Prestia, O'Meara and Marchbank need to publicly announce their preferred destinations so that those clubs hear about it...

Righto champ.

 

[Number of the Beast 80]

34 minutes ago, A F said:

So who have Carlton, Richmond and Essendon landed recently? There seems to be this reoccurring need to stick the boots into our club from some of our own supporters. Let's stop slitting our wrists and acknowledge that we sit just as likely to lure someone as Carlton, Richmond or Essendon and probably even more likely. We have better facilities, development teams and a more exciting young list than either of those three clubs.

If we're talking money though, that is also a factor and not a mixed message. Simply another factor why a player would jump ship.

I'm not going to wallow in negativity because of where we've been. It's okay to say we've turned a corner off the field. We have and we're just as likely to lure players as anyone else, aside from Hawthorn, Geelong and the Bulldogs that stand ahead of us. That will change though.

Given our recent history and how others in the competition and media view us, perhaps if we make finals next year it will become easier for players to contemplate us as a choice of destination club in the same vein as the Hawthorns, Geelongs and Collingwoods of this world. Mitch Clark was a "major signing" years ago to come to Melbourne,  whereas Judd declined the offer. Is Peter Moore the last true A grader of some standing to come to the Red n blue? I struggle to think of any since then...Wilson was not a star when he came across.

The big perceived appeal of Carlton, Richmond, Essendon is their part of the "Big 4" image from the VFL and their capacity to pull big crowds when they are up and about and the amount of blockbusters that they play in compared to us and the Dogs for instance. People are right to question this perception as still relevant in the current AFL as the recent track records of these 3 big clubs are nearly as bad as ours. 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Number of the Beast

[rjay 23,927]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

More quality talent have announced Carlton as their destination club before trade period than Melbourne or the Bulldogs.

Even Hibberd hasn't announced anything.

The argument is "destination" clubs, we are not one, clearly.

 

..haven't answered the question 'stuie'...who?

and no Marchbank is not one, unproven to date at AFL level.

We might not be a big destination club but neither are Carlton.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, rjay said:

..haven't answered the question 'stuie'...who?

and no Marchbank is not one, unproven to date at AFL level.

We might not be a big destination club but neither are Carlton.

Sorry but Marchbank clearly is one because of his talent and the demand for him. So far Hawthorn, Richmond and Carlton have all been named as destination clubs. Melbourne has not.

 

[Left Foot Snap 1,956]

1 hour ago, america de cali said:

Do you mean pay packet or brown paper bag? 

I agree, something doesn't smell right.

[Radar Detector 1,339]

50 minutes ago, stuie said:

Do they?

Prestia: I want to go to Richmond.

O'Meara: I want to go to Hawthorn.

Marchbank: I want to go to Carlton.

Hibberd: .........

I've already explained about the influence of perception and the difference between having to "lure" a player and having them announce you as their destination, it's the entire point of the discussion and the definition of "destination club".

 

 

In saying that the above reflects on these clubs as a "destination", you're assuming all else to be basically equal. We don't know who is or was seriously chasing any of these players, how much $$ has been offered by others etc. You can't really use this info in isolation.

The repeated instances of high profile players going to big vic clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood and Geelong when it's been known that others have tabled big money offers is a better indication of who the destination clubs are. There aren't too many.

[rjay 23,927]

43 minutes ago, stuie said:

Sorry but Marchbank clearly is one because of his talent and the demand for him. So far Hawthorn, Richmond and Carlton have all been named as destination clubs. Melbourne has not.

 

You would argue underwater 'stuie'...seriously mate.

My last words on this.

You Are Wrong 'stuie', Carlton are not a Destination Club...they're picking up SOS's NQR's.