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Brent Harvey


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The Brent Harvey Thread  

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1 minute ago, mauriesy said:

It's a slight on all our current leaders (e.g. Jones, Viney) to think Harvey is needed for "leadership". He's not a leader's bootlace, at North when it came to leadership he was just a much-loved veteran figurehead.

If Harvey was worth an extra 1-2 wins per year in 2017, North would have kept him.

This is based on the assumption that Brad Scott knows what he's doing.

I would never, ever make that assumption.

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18 minutes ago, Choke said:

This is based on the assumption that Brad Scott knows what he's doing.

I would never, ever make that assumption.

This is the same type of comment that others are accusing "Boomer haters" of. Trying to discredit someone due to not liking them.

2 premierships, of which he was an important part.

Was the development coach at Collingwood leading up to their Premiership.

Improved North from 7 wins in 2009 (he started there in 2010) up to 16 in 2014.

Like him or not, he clearly knows what he's doing.

 

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7 minutes ago, stuie said:

This is the same type of comment that others are accusing "Boomer haters" of. Trying to discredit someone due to not liking them.

2 premierships, of which he was an important part.

Was the development coach at Collingwood leading up to their Premiership.

Improved North from 7 wins in 2009 (he started there in 2010) up to 16 in 2014.

Like him or not, he clearly knows what he's doing.

 

Be that as it may Stuie, his oversight, along with the North Melbourne footy department has lead to them losing nearly 2000 games experience in one off season, Waite being the only one they've really retained and assuming Wells also goes this is something i reckon anyone at any AFL club would tell you is a really bad idea unless you have great leadership coming through, which i don't believe North do, their leadership has always been something people have questioned, i felt they should have moved on maybe 2, 3 if Wells was staying but to lose 5 key experienced players all at once isn't ideal.

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16 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

We've been building a team of young competitors from the ground up, seems counter-productive recruiting a 38 year old. He could be a consideration if we were pushing for top 4 and needed a forward pocket but we're not and we don't so what's the point?

And please, spare me the 'leadership' line.

so give him a 5 year contract. that should keep him in the premiership window :lol:

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6 minutes ago, stuie said:

This is the same type of comment that others are accusing "Boomer haters" of. Trying to discredit someone due to not liking them.

2 premierships, of which he was an important part.

Was the development coach at Collingwood leading up to their Premiership.

Improved North from 7 wins in 2009 (he started there in 2010) up to 16 in 2014.

Like him or not, he clearly knows what he's doing.

 

No, he doesn't.

He's already admitted he made a mistake with the timing of his forced retirement announcements.

He falsely accused umpires of targeting Lindsay Thomas.

Plus, as has already been stated I think in this thread, being a premiership player does not automatically make you a good coach. See Hird and Buckley.

As for Boomer, who I didn't actually comment on above, I do dislike him. But I also think he's a very very good player who could contribute to our list. The fact that I dislike him doesn't mean I don't think he can contribute.

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7 minutes ago, Abe said:

Be that as it may Stuie, his oversight, along with the North Melbourne footy department has lead to them losing nearly 2000 games experience in one off season, Waite being the only one they've really retained and assuming Wells also goes this is something i reckon anyone at any AFL club would tell you is a really bad idea unless you have great leadership coming through, which i don't believe North do, their leadership has always been something people have questioned, i felt they should have moved on maybe 2, 3 if Wells was staying but to lose 5 key experienced players all at once isn't ideal.

We don't know their plans though, and it's not his sole decision, they have a football manager and a list manager. We all bag Richmond for getting stuck in the middle and never succeeding but never rebuilding, I see North as taking the hard decision to rebuild before they've got to that stage. Could end up backfiring, could end up working for them, either way they clearly needed to make some big changes for the sake of their future.

Let's remember last year many were bagging Mahoney at the beginning of the trade period, but praising him as a genius with amazing foresight at the end. We don't know what's in store for them. I think Scott's playing and coaching record clearly indicates he "knows what he's doing".

 

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1 minute ago, Choke said:

No, he doesn't.

He's already admitted he made a mistake with the timing of his forced retirement announcements.

He falsely accused umpires of targeting Lindsay Thomas.

Plus, as has already been stated I think in this thread, being a premiership player does not automatically make you a good coach. See Hird and Buckley.

As for Boomer, who I didn't actually comment on above, I do dislike him. But I also think he's a very very good player who could contribute to our list. The fact that I dislike him doesn't mean I don't think he can contribute.

Took a team with rubbish resources and poor culture from 7 wins to 16.

Oversaw the development of a team that won a flag.

Absolutely silly to say he doesn't know what he's doing.

His hand was forced with the retirements, the players and managers demanded to know before the finals.

He was given wrong information about Thomas, he shouldn't have said anything, but it was a mistake. They happen.

Look at his actual coaching record, not these media events you seem to care about more.

 

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1 minute ago, stuie said:

We don't know their plans though, and it's not his sole decision, they have a football manager and a list manager. We all bad Richmond for getting stuck in the middle and never succeeding but never rebuilding, I see North has taking the hard decision to rebuild before they've got to that stage. Could end up backfiring, could end up working for them, either way they clearly needed to make some big changes for the sake of their future.

Let's remember last year many were bagging Mahoney at the beginning of the trade period, but praising him as a genius with amazing foresight at the end. We don't know what's in store for them. I think Scott's playing and coaching record clearly indicates he "knows what he's doing".

 

It's just the look of him Stuie, and his brother...

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5 minutes ago, stuie said:

We don't know their plans though, and it's not his sole decision, they have a football manager and a list manager. We all bad Richmond for getting stuck in the middle and never succeeding but never rebuilding, I see North has taking the hard decision to rebuild before they've got to that stage. Could end up backfiring, could end up working for them, either way they clearly needed to make some big changes for the sake of their future.

Let's remember last year many were bagging Mahoney at the beginning of the trade period, but praising him as a genius with amazing foresight at the end. We don't know what's in store for them. I think Scott's playing and coaching record clearly indicates he "knows what he's doing".

 

I think he can coach, very highly regarded by Collingwood people, but i can't understand this move, they shouldn't have made decisions on all of those players until they knew what Wells was doing imo, losing 2000 games experience in just 5 players in one off season is massive, i compare it to some of the decisions our club made that set us back a long way, and i think we had better leadership coming through than what North does now. 

clearly it's not his sole decision but i would be very surprised if he didn't have the final say, it seems as though he's been told by the board they want him to re-build and he's trying to fast track that, i just think it should have been spaced over another season, maybe retire Peitre and Firrito this year, and have Wells leave, and then Harvey and Dal Santo who i'd say are still both in their best 22 play one more season while Zeibel and co really get used to the extra responsibility 

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1 minute ago, Abe said:

I think he can coach, very highly regarded by Collingwood people, but i can't understand this move, they shouldn't have made decisions on all of those players until they knew what Wells was doing imo, losing 2000 games experience in just 5 players in one off season is massive, i compare it to some of the decisions our club made that set us back a long way, and i think we had better leadership coming through than what North does now. 

clearly it's not his sole decision but i would be very surprised if he didn't have the final say, it seems as though he's been told by the board they want him to re-build and he's trying to fast track that, i just think it should have been spaced over another season, maybe retire Peitre and Firrito this year, and have Wells leave, and then Harvey and Dal Santo who i'd say are still both in their best 22 play one more season while Zeibel and co really get used to the extra responsibility 

I'm just holding judgment until we see what happens. Imagine they bring in Swallow from GC, Tomlinson from GWS, Barlow and Mayne from Freo to go with the re-signed Daw in the ruck, you'd say they've made ground in that scenario right? I'm not saying that is what will happen, but we don't know what they've got done behind the scenes and all of those players could conceivably be in blue and white next year.

Plus, he knows all of those older players better than any of us, so maybe he knows they don't have another year in them and he's getting rid of them at the perfect time?

 

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5 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yeah don't get me wrong, don't like him much as a bloke, but you can't question his coaching record.

 

Off the back of a 12 win season where he should have done much better, and a belting in an elimination final?

13 wins in 2015, plus 2 finals wins. Gone backwards.

Sure I can.

He's a crap coach.

Playing record not relevant to coaching ability, as I said, see Bucks and Hird.

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2 minutes ago, stuie said:

I'm just holding judgment until we see what happens. Imagine they bring in Swallow from GC, Tomlinson from GWS, Barlow and Mayne from Freo to go with the re-signed Daw in the ruck, you'd say they've made ground in that scenario right? I'm not saying that is what will happen, but we don't know what they've got done behind the scenes and all of those players could conceivably be in blue and white next year.

Plus, he knows all of those older players better than any of us, so maybe he knows they don't have another year in them and he's getting rid of them at the perfect time?

 

It's a consideration, but i still think he should have planned this better, from the outside it seems like he's been a bit stubborn and unwilling to move on the old boys and it might have come back to bite him, imagine if they lose all of those and don't really bring anyone in outside of the draft, that could be massive. 

your second point i agree with 100% but i think this is exactly why he should have handled this better, maybe done it over a couple of seasons instead of all at once. 

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1 minute ago, Choke said:

Off the back of a 12 win season where he should have done much better, and a belting in an elimination final?

13 wins in 2015, plus 2 finals wins. Gone backwards.

Sure I can.

He's a crap coach.

Playing record not relevant to coaching ability, as I said, see Bucks and Hird.

For the 3rd time, his coaching record is excellent.

From 7 wins to 16, now he knows the time is right to rebuild somewhat.

Also took them from 7 to 14 wins in the same time Roos took us from 2 to 10 and he's called a genius.

Was development coach at Collingwood in the years leading up to their young team winning the flag.

You're clueless if you think that is the record of a "crap coach".

 

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1 minute ago, Abe said:

It's a consideration, but i still think he should have planned this better, from the outside it seems like he's been a bit stubborn and unwilling to move on the old boys and it might have come back to bite him, imagine if they lose all of those and don't really bring anyone in outside of the draft, that could be massive. 

your second point i agree with 100% but i think this is exactly why he should have handled this better, maybe done it over a couple of seasons instead of all at once. 

I think you're getting a bit too caught up in this one event. I'm talking about his overall record as coach, not the one time he could have handled list decisions better.

What happens with them over the next 3 or so years will determine if he made the right decision, and he knows far more about those players and the plans of the Roos' list than any of us.

 

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I do think Harvey would be worth 1-2 wins at MFC, whether that carries forward to more wins in 2018 is a debatable point.  I think he would be worth more wins to North next year too but they clearly see themselves and are at a different point in the curve from us - 1 or 2 more wins for them next year might be less important than it is for us.

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Just now, stuie said:

I think you're getting a bit too caught up in this one event. I'm talking about his overall record as coach, not the one time he could have handled list decisions better.

What happens with them over the next 3 or so years will determine if he made the right decision, and he knows far more about those players and the plans of the Roos' list than any of us.

 

I guess that's what i am getting at, he seems like once he has the players in the door he's very good at getting them on the same page and getting them playing the right way and that's why i think they've overperformed in making two prelims in recent years. 

but i also think they've made some horrible off field decisions, recruiting Waite i think was a mistake, not sure they have much if any top end talent coming through the ranks, and i reckon they'll probably have some tough times ahead, 

I reckon Brads leadership is amazing and it makes up for what is clearly lacking in the playing ranks but i can't see them getting near a flag unless they fix that up

I reckon it's really easy to look at Brad Scotts record as coach and say he's done well with what he's had to work with, but i also think he and the footy department have made some fairly big mistakes that they'll pay for over the next 2-3 years. re

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1 minute ago, stuie said:

For the 3rd time, his coaching record is excellent.

From 7 wins to 16, now he knows the time is right to rebuild somewhat.

Also took them from 7 to 14 wins in the same time Roos took us from 2 to 10 and he's called a genius.

Was development coach at Collingwood in the years leading up to their young team winning the flag.

You're clueless if you think that is the record of a "crap coach".

 

I never called Roos a genius, don't put words in my mouth Stuie.

And we both know Roos was coming off a much, much worse base, but I don't want to make any comparisons so I'll leave it there.

With the list Scott has had, he should have done much better. He hasn't. 

I have no idea how much or how little a development coach has on a list, but the buck stops with the head coach and they get the credit or blame. No one sits around saying 'Gee that Collingwood 2010 flag was excellent, Brad Scott the development coach must be reason'.

I think his record is crap because his list in that time has had so much potential. He's squandered it, and now North are about to fall off a cliff.

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1 minute ago, Abe said:

I reckon it's really easy to look at Brad Scotts record as coach and say he's done well with what he's had to work with, but i also think he and the footy department have made some fairly big mistakes that they'll pay for over the next 2-3 years. re

I actually reckon his list has been good and has under performed over the past few years.

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1 minute ago, Abe said:

I guess that's what i am getting at, he seems like once he has the players in the door he's very good at getting them on the same page and getting them playing the right way and that's why i think they've overperformed in making two prelims in recent years. 

but i also think they've made some horrible off field decisions, recruiting Waite i think was a mistake, not sure they have much if any top end talent coming through the ranks, and i reckon they'll probably have some tough times ahead, 

I reckon Brads leadership is amazing and it makes up for what is clearly lacking in the playing ranks but i can't see them getting near a flag unless they fix that up

I reckon it's really easy to look at Brad Scotts record as coach and say he's done well with what he's had to work with, but i also think he and the footy department have made some fairly big mistakes that they'll pay for over the next 2-3 years. re

Yep, get where you're coming from. They clearly built to have a shot at a flag sometime 2013-2015 and it didn't eventuate, I just disagree with "Choke" that he is a "crap coach", as does Roos just for the record.

 

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2 minutes ago, Choke said:

I never called Roos a genius, don't put words in my mouth Stuie.

And we both know Roos was coming off a much, much worse base, but I don't want to make any comparisons so I'll leave it there.

With the list Scott has had, he should have done much better. He hasn't. 

I have no idea how much or how little a development coach has on a list, but the buck stops with the head coach and they get the credit or blame. No one sits around saying 'Gee that Collingwood 2010 flag was excellent, Brad Scott the development coach must be reason'.

I think his record is crap because his list in that time has had so much potential. He's squandered it, and now North are about to fall off a cliff.

Ugh. I didn't say you called Roos a genius. Re-read my post.

The list Scott had won 7 games when he came in. They won 14 games 3 years later. But yeah he's "crap".

Roos rates him as a coach. But yeah he's "crap".

Took a notoriously poor club to 16 wins. But yeah he's "crap".

Was the development coach of a young team that won a flag, and is still highly rated by that club and it's supporters and staff. But yeah he's "crap".

How do you know North about to "fall off a cliff", and how do you know it wouldn't have been a worse fall without tough list decisions? You don't. The outcome of those decisions will be seen in about 3 years time.

You do realize how hard a flag is to win right? Especially for a club with no money? Hardly think a "crap" coach is going to make prelims in that situation.

 

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