Changes vs. West Coast

[3Dee 1,153]

VB played a strong game last week against Freo.. with the season now officially cooked would like to see Hulett/Weeds get a gig before seasons end.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

30 minutes ago, america de cali said:

It's the Melbourne way. So many of our players do this.

I have been thinking recently, just how many Melbourne players have actually consistently improved in recent times, my list is:

• Gawn
• Viney
• Watts

 

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

11 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I have been thinking recently, just how many Melbourne players have actually consistently improved in recent times, my list is:

• Gawn
• Viney
• Watts

 

Yes, Gawn, Watts and Jetta too were slow starters that took a while to get going. Viney perhaps is our only player that's started well and continued on a upward trajectory with few hiccups. I am starting to worry about Oliver. After a sensational first game he has been out of the picture recently. I pray we haven't got a Gysberts Mark 2 here.

Edited July 17, 2016 by america de cali

[Nasher 33,616]

9 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I have been thinking recently, just how many Melbourne players have actually consistently improved in recent times, my list is:

• Gawn
• Viney
• Watts

 

All the other players on our list are just the same are when they walked in the door? 

It's obvious that all our players have improved. Jetta was delisted three years ago. Harmes played Casey 2s in his first season. 

I do see the words "consistently" and "recently" in there. The improvement in Watts and Gawn were not consistent: they simmered along very slowly for a lot of years, then exhibited massive step changes this year and last year respectively. 

I don't think too many players get that much better throughout a season, as energy is drained. The biggest improvements occur between seasons, so it was this year, so it will be next year.

To claim our players aren't improving in any way other than usual is just garbage. You guys have just got to stop with this "everything is stuffed" attitude after losses.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Clint Bizkit said:

I have been thinking recently, just how many Melbourne players have actually consistently improved in recent times, my list is:

• Gawn
• Viney
• Watts

 

Hogan has improved.  Jetta has improved.  Tyson has had a more consistent season.  Kent has also had a terrific season to date.  Jayden Hunt has improved as many, including myself, believed he was gone at the end of last season.  I hate to say it but M. Jones has improved as well.  Hogan is on track to kick more goals than last year.  Harmes has shown some improvement as well.  Billy Stretch is another.

You're talking negative rubbish again, Clint.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

3 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Yes, Gawn, Watts and Jetta too were slow starters that took a while to get going. VIney perhaps is our only player that's started well and continued on a upward trajectory with few hiccups. I am starting to worry about Oliver. After a sensational first game he has been out of the picture recently. I pray we haven't got a Gysberts Mark 2 here.

Jetta is a good point, and Hogan is probably getting slightly better as he gets stronger but Oliver is the young player I am least worried about.

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Clint Bizkit

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

You're talking negative rubbish again, Clint.

Please, I could see the writing on the wall in the first quarter yesterday while most other people had started singing the club song.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

5 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Nasher said:

 

To claim our players aren't improving in any way other than usual is just garbage. You guys have just got to stop with this "everything is stuffed" attitude after losses.

Maybe as individuals there are arguments for improving.  But as a team, the stagnation persists. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by america de cali

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Clint Bizkit said:

Please, I could see the writing on the wall in the first quarter yesterday while most other people had started singing the club song.

So seeing the writing on the wall in one quarter of one game means only 3 players have improved in recent times?

You're kidding yourself.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Hogan has improved.  Jetta has improved.  Tyson has had a more consistent season.  Kent has also had a terrific season to date.  Jayden Hunt has improved as many, including myself, believed he was gone at the end of last season.  I hate to say it but M. Jones has improved as well.  Hogan is on track to kick more goals than last year.  Harmes has shown some improvement as well.  Billy Stretch is another.

You're talking negative rubbish again, Clint.

No he hasn't, Jetta improved out of sight the year he got rookied and is a valuable role player but he hasn't gotten any better. He does his job but little more. That might be enough for now and I like his will to compete in every contest but if Hibbard does come with Melksham, Salem, Hunt, Wagner all playing as medium-small defenders/rebounders Jetta is going to be in a vulnerable position. 

Agree with all others. Love Kent (and hunt for that matter) playing as kind of a wing/half back hybrid his pace coming though the centre bounces has been pretty fantastic. Unfortunatly we miss him forward when he plays that role.

Hogan though I dont think people quite understand what he is doing. He is left alone in just his second senior year and expected to carry a forwardline alone whenever Watts has to go back or to the middle to put out fires and plug holes cause by others. Hogan is playing to the level most key forwards need 2/3 more years to get to. Give him some support and then we can see what he is capable of. 

 

[Demon_JB 1,385]

23 minutes ago, america de cali said:

 I am starting to worry about Oliver. After a sensational first game he has been out of the picture recently. I pray we haven't got a Gysberts Mark 2 here.

Mark my words. Oliver will be a better player than Petracca and one of our elite midfielders in the future. Take it from me, you have NOTHING to worry about Oliver.

[chook fowler 19,459]

We need Salem and Stretch in the side for their pace and disposal - I know they are not ready yet but they offer what has been lacking.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Really? Does it matter who plays? If there is little to no understanding that if you do not follow instructions you will lose, you may as well send a bunch of monkeys onto the field for the same result.  Quite simply, play as a team, do what you train and believe in your teammates, you may not always win but you will not look as bad as they did on Sunday.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, ArtificialWisdom said:

No he hasn't, Jetta improved out of sight the year he got rookied and is a valuable role player but he hasn't gotten any better. He does his job but little more. That might be enough for now and I like his will to compete in every contest but if Hibbard does come with Melksham, Salem, Hunt, Wagner all playing as medium-small defenders/rebounders Jetta is going to be in a vulnerable position. 

Agree with all others. Love Kent (and hunt for that matter) playing as kind of a wing/half back hybrid his pace coming though the centre bounces has been pretty fantastic. Unfortunatly we miss him forward when he plays that role.

Hogan though I dont think people quite understand what he is doing. He is left alone in just his second senior year and expected to carry a forwardline alone whenever Watts has to go back or to the middle to put out fires and plug holes cause by others. Hogan is playing to the level most key forwards need 2/3 more years to get to. Give him some support and then we can see what he is capable of. 

 

You are selling him well, well short.

Not to mention that Clint named people who have improved in recent memory, and recent memory would be the last few years.  You would be close to the only person to say that Jetta hasn't improved in that time.

[Old Bear 388]

I think White deserves time to develop 

He reminds me of Cheney who was outstanding for Adelaide last game

[Demon Jack 6,909]

46 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Yes, Gawn, Watts and Jetta too were slow starters that took a while to get going. Viney perhaps is our only player that's started well and continued on a upward trajectory with few hiccups. I am starting to worry about Oliver. After a sensational first game he has been out of the picture recently. I pray we haven't got a Gysberts Mark 2 here.

It's his first year ADC, coaches are probably very watchful and mindful of his game time in the hope that he doesn't break down with injury. Wouldn't be too concerned about him. He's shown more than enough to suggest he'll be a more than serviceable player. Happy for him to spend the rest of the year plying his trade in the VFL and bring him back fresh and fit next year.

Plus, unlike Gysberts and his linguini like arms, Oliver actually has some muscle on them, alongside some added grunt.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

17 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You are selling him well, well short.

Not to mention that Clint named people who have improved in recent memory, and recent memory would be the last few years.  You would be close to the only person to say that Jetta hasn't improved in that time.

In my defence I was refering to this year alone. 100% he improved before this year. But i dont think playing his role week in week out this year is improvement. He stops his man from scoring and makes contests but he hasnt grown all that much. Its not a bad thing because what he does is vital to the team but I dont think its right to put him next to some of the others you mentioned as a big improver.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

So seeing the writing on the wall in one quarter of one game means only 3 players have improved in recent times?

You're kidding yourself.

I was referring to the "negative" comment as opposed to the three players improving part.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, ArtificialWisdom said:

In my defence I was refering to this year alone. 100% he improved before this year. But i dont think playing his role week in week out this year is improvement. He stops his man from scoring and makes contests but he hasnt grown all that much. Its not a bad thing because what he does is vital to the team but I dont think its right to put him next to some of the others you mentioned as a big improver.

If you want to shift the goal posts and look at this year in isolation to suit your point then, yes, he probably hasn't improved a great deal this year, although during the first 10 rounds or so he was in stellar form.  He has dropped off a little since then but it was only a few months ago that the majority on here (myself included) claimed he was our best player down back.  

If you look at recent memory, which is the last few years, then there is no argument - he has improved out of sight.  And all that has been under Roos, Goodwin and McCartney.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,248]

I suspect White isn't much of a player. But in fairness to him, he's only played 3 senior games. I think we need to cut Wagner a bit of slack too; first game back. 

Kennedy and AVB were both poor. Grimes was deplorable, and there seems little doubt that yesterday's debacle was his last game. 3 omissions.

I'm not convinced about Frost, but at least he's fast. I suspect he would have been of some use against Saints. 

[SPC 3,549]

I wouldn't make huge changes for this game..

ANB for Grimes

Frost for White

Stretch for Vandenberg

** Petracca to play more time in midfield along with Ben Ken and Garlett**

** Stretch to play off half back along with Vince, Hunt to the wing with ANB. Harmes back to HFF as he cost us a lot with poor decision making on the weekend**

** Nathan Jones to play forward, as he looks like he needs a spell and we need more forward pressure**

 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

1 minute ago, bingers said:

I suspect White isn't much of a player. But in fairness to him, he's only played 3 senior games. I think we need to cut Wagner a bit of slack too; first game back. 

Kennedy and AVB were both poor. Grimes was deplorable, and there seems little doubt that yesterday's debacle was his last game. 3 omissions.

I'm not convinced about Frost, but at least he's fast. I suspect he would have been of some use against Saints. 

I said I wanted to see White in a challenging game and i was disapointed, no need to throw him away completely his other 2 games showed he has something but he doesnt look like it when under pressure. Maybe give him 1 more game? but is a likely thrashing going to do anything to help him? i dont think so. Wagner shouldn't have played imo, needed a week or 2 back at casey to get the run back in his legs but frost late withdrawal kinda ruined that plan. Now he is in no point dropping him, wasnt the worst by any means.

Kennedy needs a couple of weeks back in the 2s and i think there will be big questions over him as a valuable pick up if he cant get up and be consistant. He was in and out of collingwood and hasnt done much to show he deserves to be any more than that here.

AVB has had a poor year, need to have a full preseason and be injury free. Every game he does a few nice things but not gonna be what we want him to be without getting his body right. I like his marking ability as the 4th tall/medium size but he cant impact when he just doesnt look 100% there.

In: Frost, Spencer**, Oliver*, Stretch
Out: White, AVB, Grimes, Kennedy

*ANB instead of Oliver could come in to play as a defensive half forward he is good in the contest and can be creative infront of goal.

** maybe go with the spencer experiment for a game see what happens we need a tall threat and hogan alone cant do it all. If Spencer shows something as a marking target then persist otherwise give Hulett a run the following week. Don't want to throw Hulett to the wolves first game against the flat trackers.

*** 4 changes seems a bit excessive so i wouldnt expect it to happen but its a long trip on a 6 day break at a ground never win at. All things point to a thrashing unless we do something to mix it up.

[SPC 3,549]

Amazing how earlier in the year, we were boasting about genuine depth, now without many injuries to note- we are scrapping together replacements.

List is still overrated!

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Just now, ArtificialWisdom said:

All things point to a thrashing unless we do something to mix it up.

Fixed it for you AW

Edited July 18, 2016 by AzzKikA

[chook fowler 19,459]

32 minutes ago, SPC said:

I wouldn't make huge changes for this game..

ANB for Grimes

Frost for White

Stretch for Vandenberg

** Petracca to play more time in midfield along with Ben Ken and Garlett**

** Stretch to play off half back along with Vince, Hunt to the wing with ANB. Harmes back to HFF as he cost us a lot with poor decision making on the weekend**

** Nathan Jones to play forward, as he looks like he needs a spell and we need more forward pressure**

 

Kennedy must go. Only disposals he got were in junk time