21 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

i have always thought he lost his Mojo once the 31 was on his back....

Yeah I've found that too.

What year did he change to 31?

2012??

6 hours ago, ProDee said:

That's because there's less pressure and more time to execute.

I don't think he has a future at the club, but I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't get to 100 games and take his rightful place on the no.31 locker.

I wouldn't have had this view 10 years ago, but the older I get the more I realise that life is all about relationships and not many have had to endure the circumstances unwittingly thrust upon Jack.  When he should have had a relaxed mindset and been working on his own game his head would have been in a spin as he was dealing with issues surrounding the club while also trying to be a role model for teammates.  None of this was conducive to good football and making him a better player.

I agree that the team and club are the big picture, but I also don't believe that either are compromised by getting Grimes to 100 games.  If anything, it's the opposite.  And it won't be a "hollow" milestone.  His teammates will make sure of that.  

When history looks over its shoulder it won't remember how he got there, it will just read Jack Grimes 100 games for the Melbourne Football Club.  In my view the club needs to ensure it happens.  

Agree. We are giving games to guys who on form don't deserve them, solely with an eye to the future. That is fine, but you still need to reward good form, or all you are doing is telling guys on the list, don't worry about how you play, you won't get a game in the seniors anyway, as you are just a list filler. 

That is an extremely dangerous position to adopt for a sporting club. A balance needs to be struck between long and short term aims.

I like and respect Jack Grimes but have always been critical of his kicking under pressure. It seems unanimous that he is a quality person. I would love to see him become an effective player in the next couple of years but understand that he may not make it. 

Its interesting to look back at the 2007 draft and trading period. Jack has been the most successful of the crop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_AFL_draft

Trades - John Meesen

AFL draft - 4. Cale Morton

                  16. Jack Grimes

                  21. Addam Maric

                 53. Kyle Cheney

                 66. Tom McNamara

                 73. PASS

                 75. Tex Walker

Preseason Draft - Stef Martin

Rookie Draft - Trent Zomer, Aussie Wonaeamirri, Jake Spencer, Shane Valenti

Sorry to join out Tex Walker but I could also have mentioned Dangerfield (10), Cyril (12), and so on.........

WOW! what list managers we had!

8 minutes ago, btdemon said:

I like and respect Jack Grimes but have always been critical of his kicking under pressure. It seems unanimous that he is a quality person. I would love to see him become an effective player in the next couple of years but understand that he may not make it. 

Its interesting to look back at the 2007 draft and trading period. Jack has been the most successful of the crop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_AFL_draft

Trades - John Meesen

AFL draft - 4. Cale Morton

                  16. Jack Grimes

                  21. Addam Maric

                 53. Kyle Cheney

                 66. Tom McNamara

                 73. PASS

                 75. Tex Walker

Preseason Draft - Stef Martin

Rookie Draft - Trent Zomer, Aussie Wonaeamirri, Jake Spencer, Shane Valenti

Sorry to join out Tex Walker but I could also have mentioned Dangerfield (10), Cyril (12), and so on.........

WOW! what list managers we had!

Tex was a scholarship player and tied to Adelaide.  We couldn't have got him.

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

The sentimists and the blue-in-the-face breath holders will be happy

I can never work out whether you are being argumentative or stupid.  I'll go with the first and just decline to debate.

If and when Grimes plays this year what will annoy the living crap out of me is when he does turn one over (which every player will) the haters will get on here saying "I told you he couldn't kick".

It sounds like he's got half a season to salvage his career, a little like our other ex captain Jack.  I'm not optimistic about either but genuinely want to be wrong.  That happens regularly so there is still hope.

I don't believe we compromise the playing side of things by including Grimes.  I like Stretch as a player and want to see him developed, but right now Grimes would offer as much or so close to it that it wouldn't be noticeable.  The same could be said for others, such as Harmes (who I also like).  Supporters get far more annoyed by the odd turnover than coaches, who expect occasional skill errors.

We've hindered Grimes career.  He could and should have been developed better.  We owe him the two games in my opinion, especially when his form warrants inclusion.  There's still room in football for sentiment and building better relationships.  

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

The sentimists and the blue-in-the-face breath holders will be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*runs for cover quickly!*

What is that???  Cant seem to find it in my Funk and Wagnall.

18 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I disagree strongly.

Jack Grimes is very limited as a modern footballer. His strength is an ability to read the ball and that he's a reasonably good mark for his size. His disposal is very poor... almost unacceptable, he isn't quick and he gets pushed around easily. Love the guy's persistence and heart, but his card was marked as soon as Hunt and Wagner showed form. With Salem and H set to come back at some point (hopefully) and Vince and NJones perhaps spending more time across half back as they age, we have no spots left. He's not a prospective key back so cannot be compared to the Mac bros. Nev Jetta improved all his deficiencies to become a valuable small back, not such a different role from what Jack could have become. For better or worse, speed and precise rebound across half back have become king, and we have too many turn over merchants as it is. 

Stuck on 98. There's little room for sentimentality in AFL these days.

Get with it, he hasn't been playing in the backline at Casey all year.  He's a midfield option for Bugg's role, he hasn't been able to crack it yet but I'm sure he will.

Jack is a victim of circumstance.  Roos significantly lifted the club's expectations, which was always going to have its victims, and Jack is one of them.

The minimum benchmark now is something that Jack (and others) will never be able to reach on a regular basis.  I feel sorry for him, I sincerely do.  But I feel much better about the fact that my club is demanding more.

Do I hope he gets at least 2 more games this year?  Absolutely.  Has he earned a spot in the seniors this year?  I have no idea, but wonder who he would replace. Do I think we "owe" him for how we developed him?  No bloody way.

There would be many posters on here that would have no idea what it is like to barrack for a ruthless Melbourne Football Club.  That's no criticism to them, they just aren't old enough!

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Yeah I've found that too.

What year did he change to 31?

2012??

I think so

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

The sentimists and the blue-in-the-face breath holders will be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*runs for cover quickly!*

Are you running for cover because you invented a new word? Sentimists?

2 hours ago, btdemon said:

Its interesting to look back at the 2007 draft and trading period. Jack has been the most successful of the crop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_AFL_draft

Trades - John Meesen

AFL draft - 4. Cale Morton

                  16. Jack Grimes

          

                    14.  Jack Grimes

2 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

What is that???  Cant seem to find it in my Funk and Wagnall.

*Sentimentalists

I'll blame it on autocorrect...

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

I don't believe we compromise the playing side of things by including Grimes.  I like Stretch as a player and want to see him developed, but right now Grimes would offer as much or so close to it that it wouldn't be noticeable.  The same could be said for others, such as Harmes (who I also like).  Supporters get far more annoyed by the odd turnover than coaches, who expect occasional skill errors.

We've hindered Grimes career.  He could and should have been developed better.  We owe him the two games in my opinion, especially when his form warrants inclusion.  There's still room in football for sentiment and building better relationships.  

Good God Ben!! That must have been a massive dose of radiation that nailed you on the road to Damascus!!

If/when any of injuries/illness/circumstances give Jack an opening, fantastic.

If, however, none of those have occurred by Round 20, select him for the following 2 weeks so he has the chance to say "farewell" (and his many fans have the opportunity to say "thanks"),  in Round 22 against Carlscum at the 'G' with 100 games to his name.

By that stage, the likes of Wagner, Hunt, Harmes et al, will probably be well and true due for an extended rest and the prospect of finals will have disappeared over the horizon.

Like most clubs, Melbourne needs to recognize and congratulate players who have (in every sense of the words) been 'loyal servants of the Club'.

4 hours ago, btdemon said:

I like and respect Jack Grimes but have always been critical of his kicking under pressure. It seems unanimous that he is a quality person. I would love to see him become an effective player in the next couple of years but understand that he may not make it. 

Its interesting to look back at the 2007 draft and trading period. Jack has been the most successful of the crop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_AFL_draft

Trades - John Meesen

AFL draft - 4. Cale Morton

                  16. Jack Grimes

                  21. Addam Maric

                 53. Kyle Cheney

                 66. Tom McNamara

                 73. PASS

                 75. Tex Walker

Preseason Draft - Stef Martin

Rookie Draft - Trent Zomer, Aussie Wonaeamirri, Jake Spencer, Shane Valenti

Sorry to join out Tex Walker but I could also have mentioned Dangerfield (10), Cyril (12), and so on.........

WOW! what list managers we had!

Imagine how silly you'd sound if you said Spencer would remain the longest out of the group back then.

Leave the club naturally , he has been NEELDED.

No one deserves a game - everyone has to earn them one by one. Grimes is not in our best 25 at the moment and the high pressured modern game seems to have gone past him. I would love to see him get 100 games up and I hope he earns it through form, not sentimentality.

But I am furious at our club for their decade-long systematic destruction of good footballers through dysfunctional player development,  and their misguided humiliation of captains and leaders.  Grimes' lack of excellence comes from a being at our club for 8 years, and being central within the Neeld debacle.

Grimes might get stuck on 98 games, but I will always be grateful for the poise and character during his time as captain when we were a basket case.

Nobody would seriously complain if he went on the locker with 98 games (as an ex captain). I am sure that RDB wouldn't!

11 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Good God Ben!! That must have been a massive dose of radiation that nailed you on the road to Damascus!!

Try being Syria for a while.

13 hours ago, mdemon said:

If/when any of injuries/illness/circumstances give Jack an opening, fantastic.

If, however, none of those have occurred by Round 20, select him for the following 2 weeks so he has the chance to say "farewell" (and his many fans have the opportunity to say "thanks"),  in Round 22 against Carlscum at the 'G' with 100 games to his name.

By that stage, the likes of Wagner, Hunt, Harmes et al, will probably be well and true due for an extended rest and the prospect of finals will have disappeared over the horizon.

Like most clubs, Melbourne needs to recognize and congratulate players who have (in every sense of the words) been 'loyal servants of the Club'.

Personally, I thinknJack deserves more than sinply 2 farewell games, I think he really deserves the chance to play in the next couple so he can have a chance to play the back part of the season and prove if he still has worth at the elite level.

IMHO Grimes is better than others who have been given games this year such as Mitchie, who has never played a game that locks like he could make it.  Conversely, I seem to recall Grimes playing games where he was among the BOG (our underdog win against Adelaide a few years back would be one that comes to mind).  He may not be in our best players skill wise, but I think he could still play a role.  I actually thought that he should have played against Sydney, in place of somoeone like Stretch to get another mature stronger body around the contest.

17 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Tex was a scholarship player and tied to Adelaide.  We couldn't have got him.

It's amazing the number of times I see people post about overlooking Tex, not just MFC supporters.

I don't like it when people go back through drafts and pick the eyes out of it, but it frustrates me even more when people start including players we couldn't have even selected anyway.

18 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Tex was a scholarship player and tied to Adelaide.  We couldn't have got him.

Thank god! We didn't stuff that one up then.

19 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Tex was a scholarship player and tied to Adelaide.  We couldn't have got him.

Not that Tex has fully delivered on what he has shown in glimpses, but you would hope that the Crows are not amongst those  opposing the northern academies.  Would be a tad hypocritical.  Or were the schoolarships a concession to compensate for the lack of father-son opportunities for the Crows?

13 hours ago, Maldonboy38 said:

No one deserves a game - everyone has to earn them one by one. Grimes is not in our best 25 at the moment and the high pressured modern game seems to have gone past him. I would love to see him get 100 games up and I hope he earns it through form, not sentimentality.

But I am furious at our club for their decade-long systematic destruction of good footballers through dysfunctional player development,  and their misguided humiliation of captains and leaders.  Grimes' lack of excellence comes from a being at our club for 8 years, and being central within the Neeld debacle.

Grimes might get stuck on 98 games, but I will always be grateful for the poise and character during his time as captain when we were a basket case.

Well said MB, but to me that is precisely why the club should gift him those 2 games.  It is not as if we are going to make finals.  Like I said earlier, there is no reason in the world for us to be mercenary in this case.  There are certain qualities which should exist within any healthy footy club, which transcend the game itself.

[edit] And who knows, his team mates might rise to the occasion around him, to celebrate his loyal service in very troubled times.