SERENITY NOW!!!!

3 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

I don't think we need to call for calm, I would rather call for resolve.

forteenthmond and fickedmantle will be calling for calm.  We need to stick to our guns, hold ourselves accountable, and do better than this.  If we believe we are on the right path, then we need resolve.  We will get fluctuations with our young group (etc etc) and the short term pain of a loss sucks ( and I hope it sucks for the players, too, to give up a game they could have won), but there is FINALLY a bigger picture.

i call for resolve to stick to that and see where it gets us.  We are no longer a complete rabble.  I don't want calm, I want resolve to win, to play the way we are supposed to, with the effort that makes it work.

I agree buck. Its inexperience that is costing us and errors in pressure situations. I have watched a few of our oppositions games on night shifts and st kilda's game against hawthorn reminded me of our side. We need the games together to build and the team to gel. At least owen is helping us to keep Jesse!

Yaaaaawwwwwnnn. Heard all the excuses before. Let's face it, the selectors picked the wrong team, the coaches were comprehensively out-coached, and (most of) the players were either disinterested or out of their depth.

Most people are reasonable and do not expect giant leaps of progress to be made overnight. However, after 6 weeks its pretty clear that we are no further advanced than we were last year. We've won three games against teams who we beat last year, we've lost three games against teams we didn't beat last year. We are scoring more goals, at the expense of a much, much worse defensive performance. Our worst football, which is as bad as any in the competition, has not improved and our players are almost guaranteed not to show up at least once a month.

If we can't beat Gold Coast this week there is a fair argument that we have actually regressed so far this year.

3 minutes ago, poita said:

Yaaaaawwwwwnnn. Heard all the excuses before. Let's face it, the selectors picked the wrong team, the coaches were comprehensively out-coached, and (most of) the players were either disinterested or out of their depth.

Most people are reasonable and do not expect giant leaps of progress to be made overnight. However, after 6 weeks its pretty clear that we are no further advanced than we were last year. We've won three games against teams who we beat last year, we've lost three games against teams we didn't beat last year. We are scoring more goals, at the expense of a much, much worse defensive performance. Our worst football, which is as bad as any in the competition, has not improved and our players are almost guaranteed not to show up at least once a month.

If we can't beat Gold Coast this week there is a fair argument that we have actually regressed so far this year.

What a load of bollocks

IMO this game highlights why we need to play Col Garland. We are inflexible in defence. Too tall or too small.

 

1 hour ago, deejammin' said:

At this stage we have 7 more games against teams currently below us on the ladder. Winning 10+ games already requires us winning all of those games and getting an upset. We've missed two golden chances to get ahead of the comp for the rest of the season. 

Id consider improvement 8+ wins, but at this stage we'll need some incredible performances to get that, especially given that teams like Freo, Port and Saints won't roll over for us, and we've already shown how we perform with expectation and favourites status.

We may have blown a legitimate chance at improvement and even finals with deplorable showings against the saints and drug cheats and we have every right to be frustrated. I hope the players are...

This^^^^

1 hour ago, poita said:

Yaaaaawwwwwnnn. Heard all the excuses before. Let's face it, the selectors picked the wrong team, the coaches were comprehensively out-coached, and (most of) the players were either disinterested or out of their depth.

Most people are reasonable and do not expect giant leaps of progress to be made overnight. However, after 6 weeks its pretty clear that we are no further advanced than we were last year. We've won three games against teams who we beat last year, we've lost three games against teams we didn't beat last year. We are scoring more goals, at the expense of a much, much worse defensive performance. Our worst football, which is as bad as any in the competition, has not improved and our players are almost guaranteed not to show up at least once a month.

If we can't beat Gold Coast this week there is a fair argument that we have actually regressed so far this year.

Good points and I agree.

 

Expectations of 8 wins set the bwnchmark too low 10 + wins only will suffice!

3 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Not bad look at it. Couple of things about it worry me. The forced switch for one. I dont understand why they choose to make a switch when its not on, if there isnt an extra man on the far side then we are just asking for a turnover, especially when TMac has the ball I love him but he his inability to understand his own skill level (or lack there of) is so frustrating.

The press you are spot on, looks fantastic when it's working but when its not calling it soft as butter is a complement. I wish the coaching staff were brave enough to say "ok we have given up 2/3 quick goals lets play man on man for 5/10 min and lock the game down and then reset once we wrestle back some control." Its not a complete change of the game plan just a nice fail safe when things arnt going right. If we were only 3/4 goals down at 3qtr time then go back to the brave footy when we have a chance, rather than being 7/8 goals down and the game is over

Having an ethos of forced switching means you are predictable to your teammates and can reinforce behaviours like spread to the other side of the ground to complete a switch. The more you force, the easier it should become; players will mould their game to make use of the switch.

As for the movement to man-on-man from a press - this can be abandoned for 5 mins easily enough if you have a team that can chop and change quickly; if there is one thing worse than not doing a press well or not defending man-on-man well, it is having some players do one and some players doing the other.

 

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Having an ethos of forced switching means you are predictable to your teammates and can reinforce behaviours like spread to the other side of the ground to complete a switch. The more you force, the easier it should become; players will mould their game to make use of the switch.

As for the movement to man-on-man from a press - this can be abandoned for 5 mins easily enough if you have a team that can chop and change quickly; if there is one thing worse than not doing a press well or not defending man-on-man well, it is having some players do one and some players doing the other.

 

That first part is a super point and i think it also applies to the chop and change. I feel like both can be trained into them. But i understand if they decide it best to try teach them to deal with oppo momentum while still playing "our style"

On 5/1/2016 at 1:41 PM, Pipefitter said:

The Comp is very even this year. Saints were just better than us on the day. Move on to next week.

Anybody trying to find more info is just reaching. You're exactly right. They hit the contested ball like a mature side should. We'll learn. And we'll get better. 

11 hours ago, poita said:

Yaaaaawwwwwnnn. Heard all the excuses before. Let's face it, the selectors picked the wrong team, the coaches were comprehensively out-coached, and (most of) the players were either disinterested or out of their depth.

Most people are reasonable and do not expect giant leaps of progress to be made overnight. However, after 6 weeks its pretty clear that we are no further advanced than we were last year. We've won three games against teams who we beat last year, we've lost three games against teams we didn't beat last year. We are scoring more goals, at the expense of a much, much worse defensive performance. Our worst football, which is as bad as any in the competition, has not improved and our players are almost guaranteed not to show up at least once a month.

If we can't beat Gold Coast this week there is a fair argument that we have actually regressed so far this year.

You rival Bring-Back-Powell as the most pessimistic, negative poster on here.

Just out of interest, where is all this "our defence is appalling" this year coming from? It seems to me that people are looking at one game (St Kilda), the most recent one, and erroneously trying to say that what we showed in that game is indicative of the entire year.

It was only the second time this year we've conceded 100, in a season where scoring is well up. We're 10th for points against this year, i.e. mid-table, where most if not all of us think is where we rank this year. To this point last year, we had conceded 527 points, this year it's 592. That's 65 more points, or just under 11 per game. Is that drastic? I don't think so, and when viewed in the context of the increased offensive capabilities of the side (the very thing most on here were hoping to see this year), it makes sense. It's wholly unsurprising that we've conceded more in the aim to score more (if you think that's unacceptable then your expectations are wildly out of proportion). Given our percentage after 6 games last year was 77.6% and this year is 102.2%, clearly the shift to offence is outweighing the losses (if any) to our defence.

I really don't think there is some major cause for concern with our defence. Our defensive performance against St Kilda was poor and contributed heavily to our loss, but that doesn't mean there is some underlying problem. 

10 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Just out of interest, where is all this "our defence is appalling" this year coming from? It seems to me that people are looking at one game (St Kilda), the most recent one,

t_u, at risk of making a Satyriconhomesque "you all suck" post, this truly is the Demonland modus operandi.  I've become quite convinced over the years that the majority of our posters can only remember the last thing they saw.  

On 5/1/2016 at 11:38 AM, jnrmac said:

Its like being told to stop being a racist

Yeah, not really. 

Bloody Frustrating loss, but in this competition, if you're a side fighting out for positions 6-14 on the ladder each game is going to be a 50-50 proposition. St Kildas form has also been alright-very unlucky to lose to Hawthorn.

13 hours ago, poita said:

Yaaaaawwwwwnnn. Heard all the excuses before. Let's face it, the selectors picked the wrong team, the coaches were comprehensively out-coached, and (most of) the players were either disinterested or out of their depth.

Most people are reasonable and do not expect giant leaps of progress to be made overnight. However, after 6 weeks its pretty clear that we are no further advanced than we were last year. We've won three games against teams who we beat last year, we've lost three games against teams we didn't beat last year. We are scoring more goals, at the expense of a much, much worse defensive performance. Our worst football, which is as bad as any in the competition, has not improved and our players are almost guaranteed not to show up at least once a month.

If we can't beat Gold Coast this week there is a fair argument that we have actually regressed so far this year.

There's some horrible stuff in here and there's no "fair argument" to suggest we've regressed at all. This post shows a complete lack of understanding for development at an AFL level. You don't just suddenly flick the offensive switch and expect the defensive part of your game to remain the same. If we'd been working on the 18 man press and zonal defence for a year already and this is where we were, then there would be cause for concern. However, we're six weeks into this process and you're bound to see some growing pains.

Edited May 2, 20169 yr by AdamFarr

14 hours ago, poita said:

Yaaaaawwwwwnnn. Heard all the excuses before. Let's face it, the selectors picked the wrong team, the coaches were comprehensively out-coached, and (most of) the players were either disinterested or out of their depth.

Most people are reasonable and do not expect giant leaps of progress to be made overnight. However, after 6 weeks its pretty clear that we are no further advanced than we were last year. We've won three games against teams who we beat last year, we've lost three games against teams we didn't beat last year. We are scoring more goals, at the expense of a much, much worse defensive performance. Our worst football, which is as bad as any in the competition, has not improved and our players are almost guaranteed not to show up at least once a month.

If we can't beat Gold Coast this week there is a fair argument that we have actually regressed so far this year.

I've read plenty of ridiclous comments on DL ... but this one is pretty special. Where to even begin with this? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your computer autocorrected the word 'retarded' to 'fair'.

I'm calmer than you are Dude.

Calmer than you !

- Walter Sobchak.

Edited May 2, 20169 yr by Biffen

10 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Anybody trying to find more info is just reaching. You're exactly right. They hit the contested ball like a mature side should. We'll learn. And we'll get better. 

Mature?

Our average age on the weekend was 24, their average on the weekend was 25.

Players with less than 50 games - Melb 10, St K 10.

 

3 hours ago, stuie said:

Mature?

Our average age on the weekend was 24, their average on the weekend was 25.

Players with less than 50 games - Melb 10, St K 10.

 

Stop quoting numbers as though you know something we don't. When it came to the coal face they had montagna, weller, armitage, dunstan... Their bigger bodies who all know the ground better played with more confidence. It's not a disaster. That game at the g, would be the inverse. We have a lot of kids learning their craft in the one area we need to smash them. The rotation limit is having its effect. And they're not smart and wily like a jones... With another 50 games into Salem, hunt, Wagner... And no riewoldt or montagna, and an aging armitage and Steven... The point is, I don't know that I would want wholesale changes. I saw a lot I liked in the game. Just needs a match day coach that's not stuck in development mode.

11 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

There's some horrible stuff in here and there's no "fair argument" to suggest we've regressed at all. This post shows a complete lack of understanding for development at an AFL level. You don't just suddenly flick the offensive switch and expect the defensive part of your game to remain the same. If we'd been working on the 18 man press and zonal defence for a year already and this is where we were, then there would be cause for concern. However, we're six weeks into this process and you're bound to see some growing pains.

I agree with this, but the manner we were scored against on the weekend was alarming and went a little beyond growing pains. The amount of uncontested possession in the most dangerous areas of the ground was...well, we've been over it.

I would hope this week would be one of the more thorough match reviews, both collectively and individually.

52 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Stop quoting numbers as though you know something we don't. When it came to the coal face they had montagna, weller, armitage, dunstan... Their bigger bodies who all know the ground better played with more confidence. It's not a disaster. That game at the g, would be the inverse. We have a lot of kids learning their craft in the one area we need to smash them. The rotation limit is having its effect. And they're not smart and wily like a jones... With another 50 games into Salem, hunt, Wagner... And no riewoldt or montagna, and an aging armitage and Steven... The point is, I don't know that I would want wholesale changes. I saw a lot I liked in the game. Just needs a match day coach that's not stuck in development mode.

Wasn't saying it was a disaster and didn't call for wholesale changes.

Simply highlighting that they're clearly NOT a more mature team than us when you consider the numbers are almost identical.

Sure they have a couple of mature ones there, but do Jones, Vince, Dunn & Lumumba not count?

Again, we played 10 kids with less than 50 games experience, and SO DID THEY. Bringing up "maturity" is a cop out.

 

Edited May 3, 20169 yr by stuie

15 hours ago, Nasher said:

t_u, at risk of making a Satyriconhomesque "you all suck" post, this truly is the Demonland modus operandi.  I've become quite convinced over the years that the majority of our posters can only remember the last thing they saw.  

You've only just realised that Nash, I don't say they suck, I say there is small vocal majority on here who bombard each thread with their pessimism and negativity after a loss and tend to deride anybody who does not share theit rather shallow view of everything. I get rather bored with it, I skim past most of their posts, but unfortunately occasionally the Liverpudlian in me comes to the fore and I find the temptation to bait them to hard to resist, some don't even attend the games live and you will find them parroting the latest theory espoused by one of the so called media experts    my attitude I go along hoping the team will put in a competitive effort each week, if it doesn't it will lose      my take on the weekend just gone we still can't maintain the rage over an extended period of time       watch the media this week if St Kilda, who are in a similar stage of development to us come out and get belted because of the same reason 

, 

Edited May 3, 20169 yr by Satyriconhome

On 5/1/2016 at 7:47 AM, picket fence said:

Hawthorn make an art form of it! But I forgot 5 year plans 10 year development etc etc! Let me ask you this.. what progression would you regard as acceptable this year next the one after?

Didn't they get pumped by 12 goals on the weekend?