Afl to my mind is in serious trouble.

Sure the dollars are rolling in in record numbers.

But when clubs are stuck at the bottom of the ladder for years and years

When those same clubs become feeder clubs for those perennially in the top 8

When the top 8 clubs dont need the draft because they just cherry pick the best players from the lower clubs

When the afl pretty much supports drug cheating and will no doubt give essendon all the support in the world despite the fact that the entire club cheated the other 17 clubs

When loud music etc become essential to the "pre game experience" 

When its not about the footy any more but about the entertainment 

When fans of competing clubs cant get into grand finals because the corporate types are there

 

Well, its in a very sick place imho.

Gill must be so proud...

The other thing that has changed is hope.

Every club sells hope.

Hope that your team can win the flag or make the finals.

Nowdays we hope we might make finals... carlton fans hope they might make finals in a couple of years. 

This needs to change asap.

Agree with all your points, BR.

 

19 minutes ago, biggestred said:

When loud music etc become essential to the "pre game experience" 

When its not about the footy any more but about the entertainment

This is why the AFL will, in spite of no clamour from the fans, switch to a night grand final. "Because the half time entertainment is so much better under lights." Strike me pink!

8 minutes ago, biggestred said:

Nowdays we hope we might make finals... carlton fans hope they might make finals in a couple of years. 

We hope that our best players don't get picked off by the ones at the top of the ladder.

And when they do, we hope that our subsequent draft picks turn out to be ace players ... so that they in turn can be picked off ...

There's "restraint of trade" and there's "killing the goose that laid the golden egg". Which do the players believe in? (both it seems)

Seems like a few on here are suffering "Jesse disease"...

A promising season from the club this year and he's going nowhere until the job is finished.

The AFL should be a bit concerned about this though...is this for real or some kind of Python skit

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/a/30910203/afl-nab-challenge-ty-vickery-concussion-footage-richmond-tigers/#play

I am no fan of the AFL or any organisation for that matter. All organisations suffer from corruption, power, politics and egos that can so easily change the way things are done. Sporting organisations are probably worse because the men at the helm are well....let's say diplomatically speaking, punching above their weight. The AFL runs a hopelessly compromised competition. The stakeholders involve TV, digital and media players, the gaming industry, and any number of unholy businesses. At the same time, the AFL has to accommodate the clubs. The nature of the business model and the innate culture of the competition naturally means that the powerful clubs have most sway. At the same time, the AFL under the funding arrangements and influenced by its own rhetoric pay lip service to the other clubs. The AFL is like a coalition of the Liberal Party and the Labor Party or Capitalism and Democratic Socialism. It is a difficult business to manage and can only operate through influence, deal making and collusion. Andrew and Gill are deal makers and increasingly the deals are about money and power both at an organisational level and a personal level. I am completely cynical about professional sport yet I still yearn for the contest. To watch a great game or a champion weave his magic. A Jesse Hogan crashing a pack . It is the game that matters.  Let's hope the greed and the power does not get the better of the game. The power of TV companies and gambling to unduly influence when and how the hand is played worries me. Overplay their hand and the game from the publics perspective will be irretrievably damaged. Night Grand Finals will happen . Rule changes will happen.  Yet in all of this despair Jesse Hogan or Jack Viney will still have the Demon faithful on their feet. We will still celebrate our tribal loyalty and unity against the other tribes.  

51 minutes ago, hemingway said:

I am no fan of the AFL or any organisation for that matter. All organisations suffer from corruption, power, politics and egos that can so easily change the way things are done. Sporting organisations are probably worse because the men at the helm are well....let's say diplomatically speaking, punching above their weight. The AFL runs a hopelessly compromised competition. The stakeholders involve TV, digital and media players, the gaming industry, and any number of unholy businesses. At the same time, the AFL has to accommodate the clubs. The nature of the business model and the innate culture of the competition naturally means that the powerful clubs have most sway. At the same time, the AFL under the funding arrangements and influenced by its own rhetoric pay lip service to the other clubs. The AFL is like a coalition of the Liberal Party and the Labor Party or Capitalism and Democratic Socialism. It is a difficult business to manage and can only operate through influence, deal making and collusion. Andrew and Gill are deal makers and increasingly the deals are about money and power both at an organisational level and a personal level. I am completely cynical about professional sport yet I still yearn for the contest. To watch a great game or a champion weave his magic. A Jesse Hogan crashing a pack . It is the game that matters.  Let's hope the greed and the power does not get the better of the game. The power of TV companies and gambling to unduly influence when and how the hand is played worries me. Overplay their hand and the game from the publics perspective will be irretrievably damaged. Night Grand Finals will happen . Rule changes will happen.  Yet in all of this despair Jesse Hogan or Jack Viney will still have the Demon faithful on their feet. We will still celebrate our tribal loyalty and unity against the other tribes.  

I take it you'll make a statement and not watch or follow any games then?

Edited February 24, 20169 yr by Ethan Tremblay

2 hours ago, biggestred said:

Afl to my mind is in serious trouble.

Sure the dollars are rolling in in record numbers.

But when clubs are stuck at the bottom of the ladder for years and years

When those same clubs become feeder clubs for those perennially in the top 8

When the top 8 clubs dont need the draft because they just cherry pick the best players from the lower clubs

When the afl pretty much supports drug cheating and will no doubt give essendon all the support in the world despite the fact that the entire club cheated the other 17 clubs

When loud music etc become essential to the "pre game experience" 

When its not about the footy any more but about the entertainment 

When fans of competing clubs cant get into grand finals because the corporate types are there

 

Well, its in a very sick place imho.

your list is very forgiving

3 hours ago, biggestred said:

Afl to my mind is in serious trouble.

Sure the dollars are rolling in in record numbers.

But when clubs are stuck at the bottom of the ladder for years and years

When those same clubs become feeder clubs for those perennially in the top 8

When the top 8 clubs dont need the draft because they just cherry pick the best players from the lower clubs

When the afl pretty much supports drug cheating and will no doubt give essendon all the support in the world despite the fact that the entire club cheated the other 17 clubs

When loud music etc become essential to the "pre game experience" 

When its not about the footy any more but about the entertainment 

When fans of competing clubs cant get into grand finals because the corporate types are there

 

Well, its in a very sick place imho.

 

3 hours ago, biggestred said:

The other thing that has changed is hope.

Every club sells hope.

Hope that your team can win the flag or make the finals.

Nowdays we hope we might make finals... carlton fans hope they might make finals in a couple of years. 

This needs to change asap.

the randomness of the footy has been culled...  the randomness of the game style,  the randomness of which clubs might fight to be in next years finals series,  the randomness of clubs fighting back in games via random play by a teams stars.

 

.......    in short the creativity has been replaced with robotic data driven disciplines.  its become all very contrived,  from the gamestyles,   to the national draft. 

 

contrived = boring.

6 hours ago, Curry & Beer said:

your list is very forgiving

Feel free to add to it

The fish rots at the head.

The league is an incestuous boys club. Instead of getting a real CEO from outside the AFL world with fresh views and ideas, they just pass the torch to Gil the dill.

-  Play reserves games before the main game.

-  The bottom 4 teams get the first 8 draft picks. i.e bottom team gets picks 1 & 5. Second last has picks 2 & 6

- The top 4 clubs cannot enter into free agency.

-  Free Agency compensation continues.

-  Collingwood plays one game at Geelong every year and has at least two scheduled 4-40 games on a Sunday.

- MFC plays all it's day games at either 1-10 or 2-10.

2 minutes ago, Theo said:

-  Play reserves games before the main game.

-  The bottom 4 teams get the first 8 draft picks. i.e bottom team gets picks 1 & 5. Second last has picks 2 & 6

- The top 4 clubs cannot enter into free agency.

-  Free Agency compensation continues.

-  Collingwood plays one game at Geelong every year and has at least two scheduled 4-40 games on a Sunday.

- MFC plays all it's day games at either 1-10 or 2-10.

I like most of your points Theo, but how do you go about preventing tanking when that draft pick system is in place.

The FA idea is great, but it would never run. The AFLPA would kick up a stink, as players wouldn't be able to float off to another club and win a flag if they wanted to.

26 minutes ago, Django said:

I like most of your points Theo, but how do you go about preventing tanking when that draft pick system is in place.

The FA idea is great, but it would never run. The AFLPA would kick up a stink, as players wouldn't be able to float off to another club and win a flag if they wanted to.

No system is perfect and exploitation will always occur. However, you have to start somewhere and with good intentions.

No free agents to the top four clubs has already been discussed in the media with pros or cons either way . However, something has to be done because even someone like Brayshaw who was a Frawley compensation pick could walk to a premiership contender after 8 years.  We could well be nothing more than a nurturing club for the top clubs.

Tanking will never go away unless there is a lottery type system for the bottom 8 teams. But I believe giving the first 8 draft picks to the bottom 4 clubs (or something similar) would give clubs the chance to move up the ladder more quickly than the current system. 

 

,

11 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

 

This is why the AFL will, in spite of no clamour from the fans, switch to a night grand final. "Because the half time entertainment is so much better under lights." Strike me pink!

The night grand final is purely media driven. The TV ratings are higher at night. That's all there is too it. The rest of it is absolute rubbish. What a surprise that Ch 7 and Foxtel (also AFL Media and SEN) generate 'public' demand for a night grand final where there is none.

10 hours ago, rjay said:

The AFL should be a bit concerned about this though...is this for real or some kind of Python skit

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/a/30910203/afl-nab-challenge-ty-vickery-concussion-footage-richmond-tigers/#play

I was listening to Triple M this morning joking about Vickery, I hadn't seen the footage so had no idea. I thought it was funny.

Now looking at that, I can't believe they made light of the situation. This is really serious.

 

As to the state of the AFL, I struggle with many things:

- Compromised draw
- A broadcast rights deal that doesn't benefit fans
- Self-interested position on the EFC/Doping scandle
- Expansion club concessions and the ripple effect it's had on entrenching the power clubs
- A flawed free agency plan that further entrenches power clubs
- Incorrect and inconsistent MRP and tribunal decisions
- Intrusion of betting advertising
- A system that allows a #1 draft pick to up and leave after only 1 year
- Bad stadium deals
- A draft system that is supposed to help equalise the competition, but doesn't
- A salary cap system that is easy to rort
- Cringe-worthy commentary teams (not necessarily the AFL's fault though I guess, but it reduces my enjoyment of the game)
- Inconsistent umpiring (make a call and stick to it, don't have it officiated different ways WITHIN THE SAME WEEKEND OR EVEN THE SAME GAME)

 

I think I said this in another thread, I wish I could just leave the game behind but I can't. I just love the GAME. I honestly love it. But the leadership and administration of the entity known as 'The AFL' appals me.
 

I used to love going to the Grand final, watching the U19's reserves and then waiting for the main game to start.   It was an atmosphere that you couldn't beat.

The AFL want to copy the American Football, but don't realise that their game is so boring that they need to sign huge acts to provide entertainment.

We have a game that IS the entertainment......If I want to go to a rock concert I will buy tickets to that concert.

I don't need loud music, fancy dancing girls, Some ground announcer telling me when to cheer.   It is just fluff.   As soon as the AFL produce it's OWN brand the better off the supporters will be 

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Gill must be so proud...

and so BRAVE !!

Clubs being stuck at or around the bottom of the ladder isn't a new phenomenon. And to the AFL's credit they've tried to do something about it (eg, salary cap, drafting), although arguably not enough. Having said that, clubs perenially at or around the bottom of the ladder are generally poorly run, which suggests its not all AFL HQ's fault.

The best evidence for this are the comparative positions of Carlton and Hawthorn. Carlton was a powerhouse in the days when you could "buy" premierships by raiding SA and WA for the best talent by paying the highest prices. Conversely, Hawthorn was a basket case for most of its first 50 years in the competition. Carlton is now a struggler as it hasn't adapted to the changes required; whereas Hawthorn has worked out how to operate best in the new world.

 

 

5 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Clubs being stuck at or around the bottom of the ladder isn't a new phenomenon. And to the AFL's credit they've tried to do something about it (eg, salary cap, drafting), although arguably not enough. Having said that, clubs perenially at or around the bottom of the ladder are generally poorly run, which suggests its not all AFL HQ's fault.

This.

If we had Jason Taylor six years ago instead of Barry Prendergast we would be up the top of the ladder.

Yes, there are a lot of issues with the AFL in terms of equity, but most club misfortunes are brought on by the clubs themselves. I can guarantee that most people who post on Demonland don't fully understand free agency, people need to do a little research before having a whinge.

 

 

3 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

The night grand final is purely media driven. The TV ratings are higher at night. That's all there is too it. The rest of it is absolute rubbish. What a surprise that Ch 7 and Foxtel (also AFL Media and SEN) generate 'public' demand for a night grand final where there is none.

I might be wrong but i don't think ratings would be higher with the AFL GF already the highest rated event each year. I think the pay off for channel 7 is they charge significantly more for ad time after 6pm

Teams at the bottom are going to have to adapt or die. Even the top side like Hawthorn is always looking for new ways to improve, they are relentless innovators, and they drag the game with them. The bottom teams are always in a position where it pays to think outside of the box. I think Roos has done that brilliantly - Salem/Tyson trade, Vince trade, Vandenberg. If anything, it just goes to show what a good coach can do. MFC will be on the up this year. Bottom sides can rise up the ladder, they just need the right coach, and a bit of luck in drafting.

17 hours ago, biggestred said:

Afl to my mind is in serious trouble.

Sure the dollars are rolling in in record numbers.

But when clubs are stuck at the bottom of the ladder for years and years

When those same clubs become feeder clubs for those perennially in the top 8

When the top 8 clubs dont need the draft because they just cherry pick the best players from the lower clubs

When the afl pretty much supports drug cheating and will no doubt give essendon all the support in the world despite the fact that the entire club cheated the other 17 clubs

When loud music etc become essential to the "pre game experience" 

When its not about the footy any more but about the entertainment 

When fans of competing clubs cant get into grand finals because the corporate types are there

 

Well, its in a very sick place imho.

The management of the AFL over the last 15 years has been magnificent.  Aussi rules football has become a truly national game that is competing with and beating world sports in soccer, rugby and basketball in this country.  It's recently signed a record breaking media deal that is the envy of just about every other Australian sport underwriting its position and that of it's 18 clubs for the foreseeable future. Over a significant period memberships and attendances have increased all the time competing with other sports.

Recently a black man asked a white woman out and that caused national debate.  I briefly read that a white woman dressed up as a black rapper and upset someone who I don't think was even there.  We've become a nation that is not only a nanny state and excuse makers but we are teaching our people to not only be offended by innocuous things but we are teaching them to search for things to be offended by.  We are turning into a bunch of whingers and bludgers.  This thread about the AFL fits that paradigm beautifully. 

The AFL is there to provide the clubs with an infrastructure to compete.  They set rules that mean the weak can survive and in some cases thrive as the Dogs and Kanga's have shown. The AFL is a socialist organization and that is the only reason we still have a footy club to support.  Within the environment they provide the well managed clubs will thrive and the poorly managed clubs will struggle. On any sort of right to exist basis we've blown it on a number of occasions yet here we are on the verge of a season with genuine hope of becoming a successful team.

You can scratch at the edges.  You can [censored] about individual decisions, but really, the AFL is at fault for putting on "pre game experience" which is popular with the young and the future generations that will support the sport?  And when we have a statement like "when it's not about the footy anymore but about entertainment" I just shake my head.  When has footy not been entertainment.  And show me any major sport around the world where the "ordinary punter" gets to grand finals.

We have been a dud club because we've had dud Boards who have appointed dud CEO's.  It was the AFL that finally said enough is enough and installed their own Board and CEO and suddenly we look ok.  And by the way, they gave us enough money to pay out all the contracts of the duds we'd employed plus some.

Thankfully Jackson isn't sitting back lamenting the "unfairness" of the AFL.  He's doing what previous CEO's have failed to do.  He's managing the place beautifully. He's employing industry standard people in the FD and administration. He's looking at developing our supporter base in NT and now the Chinese community.  He's getting on with it while some of our supporters sip their coffee and just find things to complain about and justify why we've been crapp for the last decade. 

Well enjoy the ride boys and when we have success in whatever form that takes sit back and thank the AFL for supporting us when we were down and out, giving us enough money to survive and stay in the competition, putting in place a competent CEO when we were junk and providing an environment were they allow all clubs the chance to succeed if they are good enough.

Essendon and Carlton look like being the worst clubs in the AFL this year and Kanga's and Dogs a couple of the good ones. What's that about strong clubs remaining strong?

Rather than blaming others we need to take responsibility for ourselves and get on with it.  The attitude of the OP is the typical response of those that just want to blame others.

Thankfully Jackson thinks differently and the AFL provide an environment that at least gives us a chance.