huh?

Won inside 50s 53-40

Won clearances 35-32

Won 2 quarters

Had 2 more scoring shots

Won handballs directly to the other team 7-0.

(Was probably more, but I refuse to watch that trash again, and there's no way that is a measured stat, as what other team needs it?)

Our senior players and Leadership are Pathetic.

Carry on.

Jones has been heavily tagged the last 8 weeks. Needs help

Dunn gets swamped with opposition inside 50's. He is still a good player.

Grimes turns it over too much. he can go

Dawes can go, cannot take a mark in his hands, and undisciplined which turns the ball over.

Howe should be told to never kick it. looks disinterested, time to go.

Mcdonald is a gun, would be All Australian in a good team. He cant do it all.

Cross is slow and fumbles but never gives up.

Watts has been ok this year and will get better as we get better.

Garland has lost it he can go as well.

Tysons hasn't had a great year but he makes a big difference to Jones and Vince. They play much better footy when he plays, he draws a tag and works hard in and under the packs...

I'd go into 2016 without Garland, Howe, Lumumba, Cross, Dawes or Grimes in my plans, and I'd be wary on Dunn.

Tragic that these are 5 of our 6 leadership team members.

The 6th, the captain has been sub par a lot this year.

I bet none of those 5 leaders will be top 5 in the Bluey.

What an indictment!

More tragic is that they are supposed to set an example for our young brigade, protect them and guide them on field.

What must our young guys be thinking!!

Get me out of here, perhaps!

I fear that this leadership team is sowing the seeds for our next generation to be as scarred and disillusioned as they are.

I hope there are 'performance' criteria in their contracts because it is too easy for 'leaders' to get the big $$ contracts and then choose when to play. But its like Mother Hubbard's cupboard...our 'leadership' stocks are bare or too young/inexperienced.

I see no ready solution to this terrible catch-22 we find ourselves in, yet again!

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Our senior players and Leadership are Pathetic.

Carry on.

Jeez, things must be bad if you're getting stuck in.

Tragic that these are 5 of our 6 leadership team members.

The 6th, the captain has been sub par a lot this year.

I bet none of those 5 leaders will be top 5 in the Bluey.

What an indictment!

More tragic is that they are supposed to set an example for our young brigade, protect them and guide them on field.

What must our young guys be thinking!!

Get me out of here, perhaps!

I fear that this leadership team is sowing the seeds for our next generation to be as scarred and disillusioned as they are.

I hope there are 'performance' criteria in their contracts because it is too easy for 'leaders' to get the big $$ contracts and then choose when to play. But its like Mother Hubbard's cupboard...our 'leadership' stocks are bare or too young/inexperienced.

I see no ready solution to this terrible catch-22 we find ourselves in, yet again!

And Garland opted out of the leadership group....

Most likely cos he's OOC and makes it easier to leave.

I think the following will happen at the end of the season.

Howe is gone: Hopefully we can trade him to GWS for someone like Tomlinson.

Garland will leave as a FA: Hopefully we get a 2nd round or end of 2nd round for him (unless we get a FA ourselves).

Cross will retire: I like him and he gives his all but he is done after this season.

Grimes may be saved by the fact we lose Howe and Garland.

Dawes won't be going anywhere but I hope he gets pushed out because we have better options.

I think the following will happen at the end of the season.

Howe is gone: Hopefully we can trade him to GWS for someone like Tomlinson.

Garland will leave as a FA: Hopefully we get a 2nd round or end of 2nd round for him (unless we get a FA ourselves).

Cross will retire: I like him and he gives his all but he is done after this season.

Grimes may be saved by the fact we lose Howe and Garland.

Dawes won't be going anywhere but I hope he gets pushed out because we have better options.

He has to go, the game has passed him by.

We just have to keep turning the list over , we need to discard the players that have been broken mentally through years of beatings and also the players that are not up to it. I would like Goodwin to be tapping Roos on the shoulder and saying " lets discard players X Y & Z now and give me a fresh start at it in 2017. With a very shallow draft it may mean that we are super aggressive at the trade table and think a little outside the square but for mine:

Gone:

Bail

M.Jones

Fitz

Garland

Howe

Hunt

Jamar

Mckenzie

Terlich

Toumpas - Re Rookie

Who I would be going for is anyone who is on the borderline of the top 8 teams:

Bastinac

Muzunga

Alex Woodward

Harley Bennell

Horlin Smith

Thomas Bugg

David Mckay

et etc

We just have to keep turning the list over , we need to discard the players that have been broken mentally through years of beatings and also the players that are not up to it. I would like Goodwin to be tapping Roos on the shoulder and saying " lets discard players X Y & Z now and give me a fresh start at it in 2017. With a very shallow draft it may mean that we are super aggressive at the trade table and think a little outside the square but for mine:

Gone:

Bail

M.Jones

Fitz

Garland

Howe

Hunt

Jamar

Mckenzie

Terlich

Toumpas - Re Rookie

Who I would be going for is anyone who is on the borderline of the top 8 teams:

Bastinac

Muzunga

Alex Woodward

Harley Bennell

Horlin Smith

Thomas Bugg

David Mckay

et etc

But you keep all the leadership group

They are the ones in the gun

Over & Over they show they are not up to leading

Start at the top & work down...

Nathan Jones has carried this side for four years single handedly, so deserves to be given some leeway that is not afforded to other senior players. That said, he is clearly struggling at the moment and I really can't see the point in playing him against Freo this week. The week off will do him a world of good, and we can use his milestone game the following week to bump the crowd up to 6000 or so.

Roos has put his stamp all over this leadership group. Nice, well spoken young men like Dawes and Lumumba who are completely useless on the football field. I have no issues with Jones and Grimes being leaders, Grimes is a much better player than most around here give him credit for. McDonald and Viney would be the only others I would consider unless we land a big fish in trade week.

Nathan Jones has carried this side for four years single handedly, so deserves to be given some leeway that is not afforded to other senior players. That said, he is clearly struggling at the moment and I really can't see the point in playing him against Freo this week. The week off will do him a world of good, and we can use his milestone game the following week to bump the crowd up to 6000 or so.

Roos has put his stamp all over this leadership group. Nice, well spoken young men like Dawes and Lumumba who are completely useless on the football field. I have no issues with Jones and Grimes being leaders, Grimes is a much better player than most around here give him credit for. McDonald and Viney would be the only others I would consider unless we land a big fish in trade week.

Please tell me how Grimes is any good. Yes he has courage. But his skills and decision making are VFL standard.

Jones tagged out of the game yesterday by a first year player (a Carlton one at that)

Time for massive list change otherwise the MFC won't exist.

Cross is 100% not the problem when it comes to leadership. His body is failing him now, so hopefully he can reinvent himself one last time.

The leadership shown by Jones, Vince, Garland, Garlett, Dunn etc. was deplorable, absolutely no movement off the ball and completely silent. Thought Grimes, McDonald and Dawes were the only three experiences players who moved and tried to make things happen though only the latter played particularly well.

Most concerning thing for me is that the young players are picking up some of the habits. Brayshaw gave up running a lot yesterday, Hogan has a strop when things aren't going perfectly, Stretch and ANB shied away from taking responsibility when we needed them to.

Its systematic and its concerning.

Still can't understand the anti - Grimes movement. Thought he was good yesterday and his form has been improving by the week.

Can't blame him for yesterday.

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by chook fowler

Shows how horribly exposed we become when Jones, Vince, Viney and Cross all have 16 or less disposals. Just weren't working hard enough to get their hands on the ball yesterday and when they fall down, the midfield has no hope.

Special mention to some horrendous turnovers and butter fingers from Cross. He's starting to slow down unfortunately.

Jones has been heavily tagged the last 8 weeks. Needs help

Dunn gets swamped with opposition inside 50's. He is still a good player.

Grimes turns it over too much. he can go

Dawes can go, cannot take a mark in his hands, and undisciplined which turns the ball over.

Howe should be told to never kick it. looks disinterested, time to go.

Mcdonald is a gun, would be All Australian in a good team. He cant do it all.

Cross is slow and fumbles but never gives up.

Watts has been ok this year and will get better as we get better.

Garland has lost it he can go as well.

99% agree.....Bar Watts. I think Jack needs to be traded. Theres no more backing Watts in for me. Lacks Intensity for sure.

I dont question Jonesys effort.

Dunny is a bloody fantastic player who's come a long way in the past two years. Always provides a physical contest. Garland doesnt ever show any aggression and is a pussycat...which is why he gets beaten alot.

Dawesy tries and runs hard but yeah....he's been poor this year I'd say.

Grimes is a dud. Plain & simple. Yeah yeah he loves the Demons but that doesnt cut it. Trade him MFC.

Loves Crossys endeavour...I'm unsure about giving him another deal though. Too slow...but couregous as hell.

99% agree.....Bar Watts. I think Jack needs to be traded. Theres no more backing Watts in for me. Lacks Intensity for sure.

I dont question Jonesys effort.

Dunny is a bloody fantastic player who's come a long way in the past two years. Always provides a physical contest. Garland doesnt ever show any aggression and is a pussycat...which is why he gets beaten alot.

Dawesy tries and runs hard but yeah....he's been poor this year I'd say.

Grimes is a dud. Plain & simple. Yeah yeah he loves the Demons but that doesnt cut it. Trade him MFC.

Loves Crossys endeavour...I'm unsure about giving him another deal though. Too slow...but couregous as hell.

You should change your mind when the facts change.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Jones asks for a trade ala Griffin.

Tbh I think it would be best for both parties.

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by praha

The stats indicate our Midfield got slaughtered.

Then why blame it on Dunn Grimes And TMac. Bit hard to put the torch on them when it was coming lace out into their area.

We always seem to struggle when sides move the ball quickly which exposes our inability to run both ways.

If Tommy Mac, Jack Grimes and Lyndon Dunn are our worst, then I woul think we need to start looking at a few other areas.

Our forwards would have killled for the delivery that Carlton supplied in the first half.

Angus is tired, it has been a long season , but has heart. Roosy said last week he is playing in an unnatural position for him. Get another pre season under his belt and we will see a genuine Potential A Grader.

Salem, ANB & Billy the kid , and JKN are all kids with potential . Be poistive ( I know it is hard after aday like today or a month like this.)

The stats indicate our Midfield got slaughtered.

Then why blame it on Dunn Grimes And TMac. Bit hard to put the torch on them when it was coming lace out into their area.

We always seem to struggle when sides move the ball quickly which exposes our inability to run both ways.

If Tommy Mac, Jack Grimes and Lyndon Dunn are our worst, then I woul think we need to start looking at a few other areas.

Our forwards would have killled for the delivery that Carlton supplied in the first half.

Angus is tired, it has been a long season , but has heart. Roosy said last week he is playing in an unnatural position for him. Get another pre season under his belt and we will see a genuine Potential A Grader.

Salem, ANB & Billy the kid , and JKN are all kids with potential . Be poistive ( I know it is hard after aday like today or a month like this.)

You can add Year, Decade, half Century

Shows how horribly exposed we become when Jones, Vince, Viney and Cross all have 16 or less disposals. Just weren't working hard enough to get their hands on the ball yesterday and when they fall down, the midfield has no hope.

Special mention to some horrendous turnovers and butter fingers from Cross. He's starting to slow down unfortunately.

Yeah our midfield - maybe we get outplayed by Hawthorn or other Top 4 side.

But Carlton?

No Judd and Gibbs subbed out injured

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Jones asks for a trade ala Griffin.

Tbh I think it would be best for both parties.

This is a way off as Nathan's form at the minute.

Wasn't saying this nonsense a few weeks ago.

This is yet another travail on our travel back to relevance - Jones will bounce back and so will the club.

Been through tougher spots than this.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Jones asks for a trade ala Griffin.

Tbh I think it would be best for both parties.

err I would be surprised.

Griffin had an average relationship with his coach and team. Jones is polar opposite.

I bet you would be Slitherin if you had to pick a house in Harry Potter.

Edited August 24, 201510 yr by mongrel

Jeez, things must be bad if you're getting stuck in.

Was a point re the grammar, not the content.

Dunn is a champion and one of the few players I am confident with ball in hand. Last line of defence and saves countless goals and does minimal clangers and turnovers.

your not, nah, ? yze magic ???

Shows how horribly exposed we become when Jones, Vince, Viney and Cross all have 16 or less disposals. Just weren't working hard enough to get their hands on the ball yesterday and when they fall down, the midfield has no hope.

Special mention to some horrendous turnovers and butter fingers from Cross. He's starting to slow down unfortunately.

has another in him, its just late in this season.

we need his leadership & attitude on the paddock.