What annoys me is that with Jetta and Viney back and no injuries last week we should have had a better team than we did against the Bulldogs.

We did.

Last week's result was based on hard work, not simply talent. We increased the talent levels in the side but we had decreased effort levels.

I visit this site every now and then, read some posts but rarely post myself. I am 51, went to my first game in 1969, and watched the game yesterday at the Bentleigh club with my 24 year old son. Our malaise is generational. All of the top teams have three A grade midfielders. We have Jones who some consider A grade and others consider him B grade.

We have a lot of nice blokes on our team who I am sure are affable, decent men - Watts, Bail, Toumpas, Fitzy etc. What we need are some blokes who will do anything to get the ball and hurt the opposition. Brayshaw is a start, Jones and Vanders also. I have watched thousands of games. Watts is not a footballer. He's a kid from Brighton who happened to be tall and fast and could kick. Has to go.

Then there is our deplorable recent history of wasted top 20 picks - Maric, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Gysberts, Tapscott and I've probably missed a few.

The ONLY thing that makes me not lose total faith is remembering how Northey and Daniher turned us around. The difference between then and now is that Northey and Daniher were coaches whereas Roos is a consultant.

I just needed to vent!

What annoys me is that with Jetta and Viney back and no injuries last week we should have had a better team than we did against the Bulldogs.

1 Because we were smashed at selection ( Two blokes back with reasonably long lay offs)

Riley, Newton et al should have played.

2 We were smashed in the coaches box ( Roosy not willing to man up the lose man!

Here's a thought if you send our lose man into the space where the other man is behind the ball about 30.- 40 meters away as opposition coach, would you then be prepared to take the risk of not manning him up and being accountable?? I wouldn't ,unless of course its Melbourne!!

3 To play Viney as sub was almost as silly as playing Jordy as Sub a few weeks ago! What were the "Brains Trust" Thinking!

I am almost as [censored] of at this loss then even the Geelong thrashing in that not to distant, murky past

Also we need to move absolute Heaven and Earth to get 2 quality "A" grade mids into the club next year. I don't care what it takes! Everyone is tradeable!!

I am convinced Roos doesn't understand how to play the sub. The sub is not to be used for a player returning from injury looking for fitness, it also shouldn't be used for a starting 18 player. Also, if looking for a sub to come on they must have an attacking element to their game (in a scoring or assisting sense), and a pacey player is preferred. It seems his gone for meat and potatoe types recently, although in fairness the cupboard is a little bare

I visit this site every now and then, read some posts but rarely post myself. I am 51, went to my first game in 1969, and watched the game yesterday at the Bentleigh club with my 24 year old son. Our malaise is generational. All of the top teams have three A grade midfielders. We have Jones who some consider A grade and others consider him B grade.

We have a lot of nice blokes on our team who I am sure are affable, decent men - Watts, Bail, Toumpas, Fitzy etc. What we need are some blokes who will do anything to get the ball and hurt the opposition. Brayshaw is a start, Jones and Vanders also. I have watched thousands of games. Watts is not a footballer. He's a kid from Brighton who happened to be tall and fast and could kick. Has to go.

Then there is our deplorable recent history of wasted top 20 picks - Maric, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Gysberts, Tapscott and I've probably missed a few.

The ONLY thing that makes me not lose total faith is remembering how Northey and Daniher turned us around. The difference between then and now is that Northey and Daniher were coaches whereas Roos is a consultant.

I just needed to vent!

I agree about the players but with regards to Roos. Consultant.....I used to use that when asked what I do. He didn't do too badly consulting against the Bulldogs.

I am convinced Roos doesn't understand how to play the sub. The sub is not to be used for a player returning from injury looking for fitness, it also shouldn't be used for a starting 18 player. Also, if looking for a sub to come on they must have an attacking element to their game (in a scoring or assisting sense), and a pacey player is preferred. It seems his gone for meat and potatoe types recently, although in fairness the cupboard is a little bare

I thought the sub was used to teach players a lesson.

I visit this site every now and then, read some posts but rarely post myself. I am 51, went to my first game in 1969, and watched the game yesterday at the Bentleigh club with my 24 year old son. Our malaise is generational. All of the top teams have three A grade midfielders. We have Jones who some consider A grade and others consider him B grade.

We have a lot of nice blokes on our team who I am sure are affable, decent men - Watts, Bail, Toumpas, Fitzy etc. What we need are some blokes who will do anything to get the ball and hurt the opposition. Brayshaw is a start, Jones and Vanders also. I have watched thousands of games. Watts is not a footballer. He's a kid from Brighton who happened to be tall and fast and could kick. Has to go.

Then there is our deplorable recent history of wasted top 20 picks - Maric, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Gysberts, Tapscott and I've probably missed a few.

The ONLY thing that makes me not lose total faith is remembering how Northey and Daniher turned us around. The difference between then and now is that Northey and Daniher were coaches whereas Roos is a consultant.

I just needed to vent!

Nothing new here.

It's okay to vent.

I thought the sub was used to teach players a lesson.

That's exactly what it was used for. We sent our opponents a very strong message by leaving one of our 2 strongest mid fielders on the bench until they got their mojo back while leaving a giraffe on the park to run around looking like a lost Giraffe! Well done Roos & Co!

If I was the coach, I'd just say to Jack, listen mate, you're playing the rest of the year at Casey and you're going to be traded or delisted at the end of the year unless you spend the next 9 months in the gym and doing nothing but full contact boxing and roman greco style wrestling to learn about physicality, I wouldn't entertain the idea of even considering him for selection until he has at least 8-10 kg of additional muscle mass on his frame and he can actually take down someone the size of Jarman Impey in a tackle..

Not sure about the first half of that sentence, there are only about 4 months left before trade season, but I think the bolded part has to be really considered by the club. He lost weight this year and that doesn't seem to have worked, maybe it is time that he gained muscle and strength, to both break tackles and to make them stick.

A thing that has puzzled me over the years is that he's been called quick by various commentators. He has no burst speed or quick change of direction and without strength I don't understand how he can play midfield. Still a supporter of Jack's, but I think the coaching group are going to have to work something else out unless they have given up on him.

So much for we have improved ,we are being fed total garbage.this team is a repeat of every Melbourne side since 2006 . We have not heart no desire no pride in the club . When a first year player shows the way tries with no support says it all . They are a bunch of overpaid pre madonnas and I can see the demise of this club if this goes on. Roos was outcoached as well. The game plan is years old and will not get us any where

The game plan was looking pretty good when we were 4 goals up in the 2nd quarter.

A couple years ago this was a 100pt flogging.

Actually, a couple of years ago it was 70 points

The first quarter and a bit we showed when we play the game on our terms, run hard both ways and stick tackles what can happen. From there 3-4 errors we caused handed them goals and confidence and they started to push back. Our lack of leadership and maturity meant no one took control and we went back into selfish and lazy football. For the heat and particularly bringing in two quality players underdone we needed to play two extra mids. We should have pulled Fitz from the side as soon as Ryder was not playing.

We are getting better but because we now see our good and our bad week to week and even more so quarter to quarter it is truly more frustrating as a supporter.

Watts was poor as were others but why he is the specific focus of comments by most and not Howe is beyond me.

The first quarter and a bit we showed when we play the game on our terms, run hard both ways and stick tackles what can happen. From there 3-4 errors we caused handed them goals and confidence and they started to push back. Our lack of leadership and maturity meant no one took control and we went back into selfish and lazy football. For the heat and particularly bringing in two quality players underdone we needed to play two extra mids. We should have pulled Fitz from the side as soon as Ryder was not playing.

We are getting better but because we now see our good and our bad week to week and even more so quarter to quarter it is truly more frustrating as a supporter.

Watts was poor as were others but why he is the specific focus of comments by most and not Howe is beyond me.

Howe actually annoys me more than Watts. I'm beginning to think both of them need to be traded though.

We become a meek and mild football team at the first sign of adversity. Until we have more than the current handful of players who play for the jumper (and not for themselves), we won't even rise to the dizzy heights of mediocrity.

Some have highlighted Watts on here having zero tackles.

He wasn't alone.

Jetta, Bail and T-Mac also.

You would expect most players in this day and age to at least stick one tackle a quarter if serious about defending. That's around 80 tackles for the match if everyone does this and it's not out of question either as we had 88 against the doggies and look at the result. That's 31 more tackles than we laid against Port (57).

We only had 7 players who laid 4 or more tackles for the match....

Brayshaw (8)

Vince (7)

Garland (6)

Spencil (6)

H (5)

N Jones (5)

Vanders (4)

Contrast this to last week where we had 11 who laid 4 or more and where every player had at least 1 tackle or more for the match!!

One word that sums up the huge turnaround from last week.......

EFFORT!!!

The difference between then and now is that Northey and Daniher were coaches whereas Roos is a consultant.

Ridiculous.

Just ridiculous.

The big difference yesterday wasn't between Roos and Daniher/Northery, it was between our team of decent and also-ran players and a couple of genuine A-Graders who were able to single-handedly turn a game.

Jones had 11 possessions in the first quarter. Boak went to him ... end of Jones, end of Melbourne. It's not complicated, and has little to do with who's sitting in the coaching box. If players can't beat their opponents, then Melbourne can't beat their opponents. End of.

"Boak gathered an equal game-high 31 disposals (18 contested), as well as eight clearances and played an influential role around stoppages.

The Port skipper led a dominant midfield, which included outstanding contributions from Brad Ebert (32 disposals, nine clearances and seven inside 50s), Ollie Wines (29 touches and six inside 50s) and Robbie Gray (26 and eight clearances).

"When you lead from the top, it's a great spot to start. Then the other boys like Ollie, Brad, Robbie, the forwards and the backs all join in; but they had a symbolic person up front saying, 'this is the way we're going to play,' Hinkley said."

From there 3-4 errors we caused handed them goals and confidence and they started to push back. Our lack of leadership and maturity meant no one took control and we went back into selfish and lazy football.

Sums it up well IMO.

How about our six losing scores this season? It's eerily similar: 56,55,50,50,50,54. That said, last year our average losing score may have been even lower (we scored sub 50 points 7 times last season). The point is something needs to be changed to get a score on the board

Some have highlighted Watts on here having zero tackles.

He wasn't alone.

Jetta, Bail and T-Mac also.

Except Jetta and T Mac bust their asses every week for the jumper.

Watts hasnt busted his has once in 100 games.

Except Jetta and T Mac bust their asses every week for the jumper.

Watts hasnt busted his has once in 100 games.

I don't think Jack lacks effort. It's physicality he lacks and in the modern game, if you can't tackle, you're shown up severely.

While true, Roos didn't change much when they got on top, any changes would have been in vain, we had ground to a halt with our run, and no matter what, we were in deep strife.

Selection perhaps more of an issue yesterday than any potential match day coaching issues.

Given the clear exhaustion, some of the tackles and other efforts were embarrassing. There was one in particular that was so embarrassing I just shook my head, but won't go into detail as will probably get howled down for picking on one of the whipping boys.

I know Watt effort your talking about Forest. Some times its hard to see the forest for the trees.

Except Jetta and T Mac bust their asses every week for the jumper.

Watts hasnt busted his has once in 100 games.

No one said that about Jetta before 2014 though

Actually, a couple of years ago it was 70 points

How could i forget

Actually i was there and that was poor haha

You reap what you sow!

Prime example below we have 4 picks in top 20 & yet 6 yrs later we have 3 players gone & 1 who may never play again!

Freo have a pick 20 who is an A grader now....

Get real people we butchered our picks for years & expect Roos to fix in 2 drafts!

I'm positive as I see the players we have drafted in the last 2 yrs will turn us into the team who will play finals...

2009 draft

Priority 1 Tom Scully Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup Melbourne

1 2 Jack Trengove Sturt SANFL Melbourne

1 3 Dustin Martin Bendigo Pioneers TAC Cup Richmond

1 4 Anthony Morabito Peel WAFL Fremantle

1 5 Ben Cunnington Geelong Falcons TAC Cup North Melbourne

1 6 Gary Rohan Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Sydney

1 7 Brad Sheppard East Fremantle WAFL West Coast

1 8 John Butcher Gippsland Power TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 9 Andrew Moore Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 10 Jake Melksham Calder Cannons TAC Cup Essendon

1 11 Jordan Gysberts Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne

1 12 Kane Lucas East Fremantle WAFL Carlton

1 13 Daniel Talia Calder Cannons TAC Cup Adelaide

1 14 Lewis Jetta Swan Districts WAFL Sydney

1 15 Christian Howard Glenelg SANFL Western Bulldogs

1 16 Jasper McMillan-Pittard Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 17 Daniel Menzel Central District SANFL Geelong

2 18 Luke Tapscott North Adelaide SANFL Melbourne

2 19 Benjamin Griffiths Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Richmond

2 20 Nathan Fyfe Claremont

You reap what you sow!

Prime example below we have 4 picks in top 20 & yet 6 yrs later we have 3 players gone & 1 who may never play again!

Freo have a pick 20 who is an A grader now....

Get real people we butchered our picks for years & expect Roos to fix in 2 drafts!

I'm positive as I see the players we have drafted in the last 2 yrs will turn us into the team who will play finals...

2009 draft

Priority 1 Tom Scully Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup Melbourne

1 2 Jack Trengove Sturt SANFL Melbourne

1 3 Dustin Martin Bendigo Pioneers TAC Cup Richmond

1 4 Anthony Morabito Peel WAFL Fremantle

1 5 Ben Cunnington Geelong Falcons TAC Cup North Melbourne

1 6 Gary Rohan Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Sydney

1 7 Brad Sheppard East Fremantle WAFL West Coast

1 8 John Butcher Gippsland Power TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 9 Andrew Moore Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 10 Jake Melksham Calder Cannons TAC Cup Essendon

1 11 Jordan Gysberts Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne

1 12 Kane Lucas East Fremantle WAFL Carlton

1 13 Daniel Talia Calder Cannons TAC Cup Adelaide

1 14 Lewis Jetta Swan Districts WAFL Sydney

1 15 Christian Howard Glenelg SANFL Western Bulldogs

1 16 Jasper McMillan-Pittard Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 17 Daniel Menzel Central District SANFL Geelong

2 18 Luke Tapscott North Adelaide SANFL Melbourne

2 19 Benjamin Griffiths Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Richmond

2 20 Nathan Fyfe Claremont

Stahp!