Delisting Hunt/Harmes/king is premature must be given a chance(s) Hunt and Harmes are both mids without the same class as a Brayshaw or Patrecca however they will mature into good players IF.I once said Kent and to a lesser extent

Pedersen would be of value,most of us would agree with Kent whilst some prefer Pedersen over Dawes.The question I ask is how far are the likes of Watts,Dawes,Garland and Howe going to take us? Other clubs are not going to give us first

round draft pick,2nd round a slight chance.When is the last time any of those get a vote from the Herald-Sun for playing well.Nat Jones,Tyson,Bradshaw,Vince,Gawn to mention have. King has been primed for a ruck/forward role and M.White

has been pick up for his skills as a defender.We do need experienced players from other clubs,we have to continue to dilute the Mark Neeld effect( a bit like an exocism ). Who is to go:-

Mckenzie,Howe,Watts,Minchie,Riley,Cross,Jamar,Bail,Grimes ,Spence? Who is going to escape the bullet Terlich,M.jones,Dawes.

An interesting question by the end of the year: WHO IS GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT TO THE SENIORS (1)HUNT(2)HARMES(3)KING(4)NONE

Not quite related, but it sounds like Shiel's season could be over. I don't wish injuries on anyone, but it'd be handy if he didn't play against in the final round.

Imagine if someone had offered him big bucks, had him sewn up and then he did his knee like he did. Wowza.

Trade Watts Dawes Garland Howe and Toumpas

I really dont think they offer enough for the future.

Remove Bail Mckenzie Terlich

Keep Cross and Pederson for one more year. Keep Grimes at last showing some of his old form and he seems to care.

Jamar retired

Coniglio has signed an extension, thought I read his name mentioned here a few times.

Unfortunately, I think Cross has reached the end of a sterling playing career. His reading of the play gets him to the right position to intercept but he can't tag any more because he can't keep up and his disposal has significantly deteriorated. To keep him as a player because of his professional training standards is unnecessary. If he's that important in that role he can join the coaching panel.

Unfortunately, I think Cross has reached the end of a sterling playing career. His reading of the play gets him to the right position to intercept but he can't tag any more because he can't keep up and his disposal has significantly deteriorated. To keep him as a player because of his professional training standards is unnecessary. If he's that important in that role he can join the coaching panel.

I don't think this is right. He went to Goddard for the 2nd Q and stopped him, unfortunately he was then moved off Goddard and he got away again.

Can they get much worse?!

The night is darkest just before the dawn. - Bruce Wayne as Batman circa 2008.

Edited July 14, 201510 yr by Ethan Tremblay

Cross must play on. Has been terrific this year. We would be worse without him. Fact.

Can they get much worse?!

The night is darkest just before the dawn. - Bruce Wayne as Batman circa 2008.

Ethan, Ethan, Ethan, Bruce Wayne is Batmans alter ego. 2008 was The Dark Knight - Christian Bale & Heath Ledger.

Harvey Dent (Aaron Echhart) says “The night is darkest just before the dawn.”

PS

I'd keep Fitzy.

Dawes & Howe for trade. the others probably no value.

Can they get much worse?!

The night is darkest just before the dawn. - Bruce Wayne as Batman circa 2008.

That is what people were telling me in 2008 ET

It has been a bloody long night

So has Prestia signed with us yet? Come on I know you blokes have good sauces

So has Prestia signed with us yet? Come on I know you blokes have good sauces

Tabasco, Soy, tomato?

Tabasco, Soy, tomato?

Sweet Chilli thanks champ

Sweet Chilli thanks champ

BBQ !

I really like Col Garland. He's been a very 'solid citizen' of our Club through an extremely tough era, and in my eyes, he's still a 'best 22' player. However, this is surely not the point. If we want to improve as a team we need to raise the bar! Inevitably, some of today's 'solid citizens' will need to make way for players who bring (or have clear potential to bring), more to the team. There's an important part of me that says we should remain loyal to 'solid citizens' like Col, and another part that screams for team success. For me, in this scenario, team success beats loyalty every day of the week!

Trade Watts Dawes Garland Howe and Toumpas

I really dont think they offer enough for the future.

Remove Bail Mckenzie Terlich

Keep Cross and Pederson for one more year. Keep Grimes at last showing some of his old form and he seems to care.

Jamar retired

We can't move that many forwards on, the weekend showed we are lacking in that area. As much as Dawes isn't the end game for the Dees until Hogan has at least 50-75 games under his belt we need the mature body up front. In saying that Howe and Toumpas could offer value on the trade table

Trade Watts Dawes Garland Howe and Toumpas

I really dont think they offer enough for the future.

Remove Bail Mckenzie Terlich

Keep Cross and Pederson for one more year. Keep Grimes at last showing some of his old form and he seems to care.

Jamar retired

Until about five weeks ago I would have agreed with most of that, but I can now see what Roos sees in Watts. There was never any doubt as to his footy 'smarts' and he has a Mark Waugh laconic style approach to the game, but his lack of intensity was so frustrating. In his last five weeks however, he has been very solid and its worth remembering he has only now played as many games of football as many of this years U18s will have when they get drafted. I now think he can actually reach that mythical potential many of us were envisaging when he was drafted.

I'm torn with Col, the key question if he left like Chippa would we get something better in return- and I'm not convinced we would. I think many on here underestimate just how tough Col is - he doesn't shirk an issue and he has an essential component for key defenders - he's quick, not the best reader of the play, but like Tommy Mac he has seriously good wheels when he takes off. It think he deserves another contract unless we were going to get another 1st round pick as compo...highly unlikely.

I think most agree that Howe is gone and I'd put both Dawes and Toumpas on the table as well as Grimes (pains me to say it, but such is football). Tommy Mac and Frost have the speed, height and athleticism (Dawes has height - negated by his physical inability to get two feet off the ground at the same time and endurance - but that's it) to play both forward and back (but both need a couple of summers kicking at goal) to give us the flexibility.

I really like Col Garland. He's been a very 'solid citizen' of our Club through an extremely tough era, and in my eyes, he's still a 'best 22' player. However, this is surely not the point. If we want to improve as a team we need to raise the bar! Inevitably, some of today's 'solid citizens' will need to make way for players who bring (or have clear potential to bring), more to the team. There's an important part of me that says we should remain loyal to 'solid citizens' like Col, and another part that screams for team success. For me, in this scenario, team success beats loyalty every day of the week!

Exactly. I'd use the Hawthorn example from the early to mid 2000s. Players like Ben Dixon, John Barker and Jon Hay were in the Hawthorn team. They were okay players, but they were never going to win them a flag. They failed to do this in 2001. So they began to move them on and they looked to improve all areas of the ground. They arguably built their midfield first with Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis and Sewell, but then added Roughy and Franklin to their forwardline and Rioli came in too. Clarkson's various defensive set ups helped cover their modest backline, but this was offset by great team defence and class in the midfield, forwardline and off half back.

We have Tommy Mac, Dunn, Frost and potentially Fitzpatrick as KPBs. That's enough at the moment. We need class coming out of defence. When he's not playing in the midfield, Salem will probably be one of those guys. I'd target someone like McKenzie at GCS too to give us elite disposal off half back. We need some elite kickers for our slingshot game anyway. Brayshaw is terrific at this from the midfield. Exhibit A - the Geelong game.

For the forward half, I'd look to bring in a younger KPF to support Jesse and another speedy x-factor forward to partner with Garlett. Kent will also help out here.

Then we turn to the midfield and we need to seriously inject some pace into it. We're far too one-paced, which means a lot of our forward fifty entries are rushed, usually inefficient entries. Add Prestia at the end of this year (fingers crossed) and in the next year or so look for another speedy mid and we'll be starting to look pretty good.

What all this means though is that we need to carefully select those blokes who are not going to take us further or we have in surplus or players that can cover their positions, and we move them on, whilst filling the aforementioned holes on our list at the same time. Garland and Dawes (even Toumpas) are expendable if we can improve our list.

Edited July 14, 201510 yr by AdamFarr

Ethan, Ethan, Ethan, Bruce Wayne is Batmans alter ego. 2008 was The Dark Knight - Christian Bale & Heath Ledger.

Harvey Dent (Aaron Echhart) says “The night is darkest just before the dawn.”

PS

I'd keep Fitzy.

Dawes & Howe for trade. the others probably no value.

Thanks for the correction. Great movie.

Exactly. I'd use the Hawthorn example from the early to mid 2000s. Players like Ben Dixon, John Barker and Jon Hay were in the Hawthorn team. They were okay players, but they were never going to win them a flag. They failed to do this in 2001. So they began to move them on and they looked to improve all areas of the ground. They arguably built their midfield first with Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis and Sewell, but then added Roughy and Franklin to their forwardline and Rioli came in too. Clarkson's various defensive set ups helped cover their modest backline, but this was offset by great team defence and class in the midfield, forwardline and off half back.

We have Tommy Mac, Dunn, Frost and potentially Fitzpatrick as KPBs. That's enough at the moment. We need class coming out of defence. When he's not playing in the midfield, Salem will probably be one of those guys. I'd target someone like McKenzie at GCS too to give us elite disposal off half back. We need some elite kickers for our slingshot game anyway. Brayshaw is terrific at this from the midfield. Exhibit A - the Geelong game.

For the forward half, I'd look to bring in a younger KPF to support Jesse and another speedy x-factor forward to partner with Garlett. Kent will also help out here.

Then we turn to the midfield and we need to seriously inject some pace into it. We're far too one-paced, which means a lot of our forward fifty entries are rushed, usually inefficient entries. Add Prestia at the end of this year (fingers crossed) and in the next year or so look for another speedy mid and we'll be starting to look pretty good.

What all this means though is that we need to carefully select those blokes who are not going to take us further or we have in surplus or players that can cover their positions, and we move them on, whilst filling the aforementioned holes on our list at the same time. Garland and Dawes (even Toumpas) are expendable if we can improve our list.

Shhhhhhhhh. You are talking logic.

That's not allowed here.

Harvey Dent (Aaron Echhart) says “The night is darkest just before the dawn.”

Thomas Fuller wrote "It is always darkest just before the Day dawneth" in 1650. It was a proverb even before that.

Edited July 14, 201510 yr by mauriesy

Thomas Fuller wrote "It is always darkest just before the Day dawneth" in 1650. It was a proverb even before that.

Thanks Maurie. The world is full of smart arzes and welcome to the club. I have been a member since 1957.

I love it when the younger generation think they have discovered something new only to be told that is a remake of a remake or Shakespeare wrote that or The Beatles wrote that or you know what I mean.

Thomas Fuller also wrote, If thou findest thou canst not suffer the Impertinencies, Follies, and ill Usages of the World, withdraw from it ; but first be sure thou canst bear with thyself.

PS: I am not having a go at you. Mine was purely a movie reference. Keep up the good work.

We can't move that many forwards on, the weekend showed we are lacking in that area. As much as Dawes isn't the end game for the Dees until Hogan has at least 50-75 games under his belt we need the mature body up front. In saying that Howe and Toumpas could offer value on the trade table

We might as well bring back the Ox then, solid mature body. Only difference is I think he could still hold a grab.

It's not a good enough reason to keep Dawes. Frost or Tommy Mc are better options and maybe a trade for someone like Tomlinson.

Cross must play on. Has been terrific this year. We would be worse without him. Fact.

yeah Crossy has to go on

we need mature leaders to keep the kids honest, as they mature... grimesy isn't that.

even after Crossy isn't best 22; he should still be on the list in case any 'notty nosed kid, gets too big for his New Balances... then Crossy would come back in, whilst we sort the kid in the magoos.

at this point Crossy is best 22, & he should go on.

Until about five weeks ago I would have agreed with most of that, but I can now see what Roos sees in Watts. There was never any doubt as to his footy 'smarts' and he has a Mark Waugh laconic style approach to the game, but his lack of intensity was so frustrating. In his last five weeks however, he has been very solid and its worth remembering he has only now played as many games of football as many of this years U18s will have when they get drafted. I now think he can actually reach that mythical potential many of us were envisaging when he was drafted.

I'm torn with Col, the key question if he left like Chippa would we get something better in return- and I'm not convinced we would. I think many on here underestimate just how tough Col is - he doesn't shirk an issue and he has an essential component for key defenders - he's quick, not the best reader of the play, but like Tommy Mac he has seriously good wheels when he takes off. It think he deserves another contract unless we were going to get another 1st round pick as compo...highly unlikely.

I think most agree that Howe is gone and I'd put both Dawes and Toumpas on the table as well as Grimes (pains me to say it, but such is football). Tommy Mac and Frost have the speed, height and athleticism (Dawes has height - negated by his physical inability to get two feet off the ground at the same time and endurance - but that's it) to play both forward and back (but both need a couple of summers kicking at goal) to give us the flexibility.

To me, Watts has gone from a Trade OUT... to an Open question mark ???? tempted to keep tempted to trade...... I don't like losing our draftees but sometimes?